OT: WitE Forum

[Canoerebel]

I think crsutton and I must've been separated at birth. I agree with everything he says (except the Smart phone thing - I wouldn't own an electronic phone or other handheld communication device if you paid me).

WitP:AE really is a magnificent creation.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think crsutton and I must've been separated at birth. I agree with everything he says (except the Smart phone thing - I wouldn't own an electronic phone or other handheld communication device if you paid me).

WitP:AE really is a magnificent creation.

So I'm guessing that something like this adorns the Canoe Boathouse ("Mabel, Mabel, get me Andy right away!").

[Canoerebel]

I'd take that over a cellphone any day!

"Kenneth, what is the frequency?"

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

WitE forum is doing just fine - thanks for asking! [:)]

The WitE, as per Joel, sold similarly to WitP and is expected to have same grand total in long run...

Also please note that most players play WitE vs. AI (same case as with UV / WitP and WitP-AE)!

BTW, the number of post in WitP-AE forum is rather constant but, apart from AAR section, almost all post are "OT" (i.e. general military / historic stuff) and made by the very same core of old posters... [:D]

I understand your attachment to the game, but I've been looking in there for about 18 months and traffic is nowhere near what it was as recently as Feb. Some people read, but few post. I see 3-4 new posts per day outside the AARs, and of those there are only a couple of active ones whereas last winter there were a dozen or more. (About half of them Q-Ball's. [:)])

I also don't see a lot of newbie posts, as you say.

On Joel's numbers, I note he says sales are versus WITP, not WITP and AE. If WitE sold as many as both WITPs I'd be very surprised.

The test will be WitW. I think there will be more who wait and see how the balance works than there were for WitE, especially at the price point.

First of all I have no understanding with stand:

"US" vs. "THEM"

(and "US" meaning "WitP-AE")


Why would one even think of undermining our Grognard community with stand like this at first place? [:(]

The "elitism" of "US" leads nowhere... [:-]


Leo "Apollo11"

Offering a temperate response to this semi-attack . . .

As the OP I opened this thread for two reasons:

1) To the extent Matrix management ever reads this forum (probably not), to inform them that I, a buyer of BOTH games, have noted that WitE seems to have worked through its avid player phase, while AE has not. Thus, why not devote some/any resources to extending this franchise rather than promise GG & Co., in advance of evidence their current line has the staying power of the PTO, multiple guaranteed titles with concurrent funding and corporate support?

2) To congratulate the AE forum for its support and offer a comparison to the other mega-game currently at the forefront of Matrix's product portfolio.

Note that I do not consider myself a part of "the grognard community." I play AE; I don't play wargames. I bought WitE for educational reasons, but found the game mechanics so dense and the combat results presentation so antiseptic as to remove all enjoyment from the experience. But, as above, I spent my $80 so I get an opinion. And my opinion includes a portion which states that Matrix should consider leveraging the sales volume and extreme goodwill in the AE franchise by extending it. I have engaged in discusisons of game industry mechanics since the early 1990s on Usenet, when that was the predominate Internet channel for such, and I have had calm, respectful discussions with Erik R. there on several occasions concerning Matrix's business and marketing practices. We have never agreed on them, but he does have his reasons and I don't have perfect data. Still, I soldier on trying to get Matrix to devote some measure of operating capital and management time to extending this one, great game franchise which I am interested in above all others.

So, is it an Us vs. Them? Defined in one way, yes. Us is those who want a WITP2. Given that it's a zero-sum proposition where resources directed at other games are not directed at "our" project why would a sole-focused gamer such as me advocate for development of something I will never buy or play? Customers vote with their wallets and secondarily with their voices. And while I don't know the size of WitE's "wallet" I can see which game has the loudest and longest-lasting voice. This thread was yet another attempt to invite Matrix to notice us. That it went in alternate directions is fine--I'm from Usenet; I don't "own" a thread I start--as is the fact that you wish it hadn't gone there at all is fine too. If someone on the WitE forum wants to start a "We're the best!" thread they can. I predict they won't though.

Pax.

[Nikademus]

There does tend to be a little defensiveness when WitE is criticized. I can understand it. In the end I stand behind my views of the game having given it a good spin. I do fire it up once in a while. The smaller scenarios are a nice change of topic. I'm glad to hear that the product continues to be improved via patching.

[Lecivius]

I purchased WitE, but to quote The Moose
 
"but found the game mechanics so dense and the combat results presentation so antiseptic as to remove all enjoyment from the experience."
 
This sumed things up very well.  I played this for about 45 min, then shelved it.  I watched the boards for a bit, & noted far to many bugs being reported.  So I never looked back.  I spent over $70 on the Distant Worlds series, and again found far to many bugs.  In AE, we have some very serious technichal support.  And it's unpaid support, which gives a person a very real feeling that folks care about getting it "right", or as right as can be done.  Considering the cost of games purchased, that has very real value.  I find this value lacking in other Matrix products I have purchased so far.

[jeffk3510]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think crsutton and I must've been separated at birth. I agree with everything he says (except the Smart phone thing - I wouldn't own an electronic phone or other handheld communication device if you paid me).

WitP:AE really is a magnificent creation.

+1

He hit the nail on the head. I wish I didn't have a smart phone some times... business never leaves you alone, ANYWHERE..[8|]

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think crsutton and I must've been separated at birth. I agree with everything he says (except the Smart phone thing - I wouldn't own an electronic phone or other handheld communication device if you paid me).

WitP:AE really is a magnificent creation.

+1

He hit the nail on the head. I wish I didn't have a smart phone some times... business never leaves you alone, ANYWHERE..[8|]

I don't like phones that are smarter than I am... [:@]

[Speedysteve]

Being an avid player of both AE and WitE I'd like to add a few things.

There's no doubt about it I do get a stronger 'buzz' and excitment from watching the CR and hence the WEGO system that AE has.

I do feel AE has a slightly better UI and a more 'realistic' game model.

There are 2 main areas for which WitE is deficient (which are known by the people that need to know) and these areas dramatically effect the play of the game.

1.) Logistics - Quite simply put there's not enough of a realistic Logistical model in place so that attacking sides can attack for too long over too big a distance.

2.) Air War - The air model is not great, not detailed enough and results can be far too lopsided. On the flip side the lack of detail pervades such areas like stopping specific attacks or wiping out whole columns by interdiction etc. There's not enough of a human influecne as to what goes on in the Air War.

Now. Having said that there is something about WitE that makes me keep playing. It has many things going for it to a Strategic Wargamer:

1.) The most detailed simulation of the War in the East ever.
2.) Detailed OOB
3.) The ability to try out different thing to a certain extent.

It's still a very good game but IMO WITP and AE shade it overall.

If I have to grade them:

WITE - 7.5
WITP - 9
AE - 10

As an FYI WitW will be the next iteration then there'll be War In France/War in Africa genre and ultimately a WitE 2.0 with the added features of better Logistics and Air War which WitW will have in them.

[Lecivius]

"As an FYI WitW will be the next iteration then there'll be War In France/War in Africa genre and ultimately a WitE 2.0 with the added features of better Logistics and Air War which WitW will have in them. "

It appears I will await 2.0 then.

[Speedysteve]

I will say this as well. WitE now is a much better version than WitE 1.0.

[Sardaukar]

WitE is a good game..I enjoy it..AI is quite decent. I think main problem is the balance issues in PBEM.

[Omat]

Hello

I think it is not very fair comparing WitE with WitP AE. WitE AE had two predecessor (UV, WitP). I also think WitP AE set very high standards for such a kind of a game.
Peronaly I think WitE is good. I do not see a game with this scope which is better.

Omat

[Titanwarrior89]

Overall I would agree with you. Their both good games....which have their faults. I play both, with most of my time geared toward WitpAe.

ORIGINAL: Omat

Hello

I think it is not very fair comparing WitE with WitP AE. WitE AE had two predecessor (UV, WitP). I also think WitP AE set very high standards for such a kind of a game.
Peronaly I think WitE is good. I do not see a game with this scope which is better.

Omat

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I think crsutton and I must've been separated at birth. I agree with everything he says (except the Smart phone thing - I wouldn't own an electronic phone or other handheld communication device if you paid me).

WitP:AE really is a magnificent creation.

Mom always said I was the smarter... [8D]

[Dili]

War In France/War in Africa genre

I'll believe it when i'll see it. I expect abstraction going over the top...

[LowCommand]

I suspect that managing the Japanese production system is a good playability feature. As in, it gives the Japanese player something positive to do as his empire crumbles around him. Besides, the Japanese economy really, Really needed help. The US economy needed some help too, but not in the same way. Other than switching a few plants from manufacturing dud products like the Buffalo to something more useful. (And even that wasn’t realistic. The company management was even worse than the aircraft. It was pretty much the only major US manufacturer shut down for incompetence during WWII.) There just isn’t that much realistic for Allied player management. Most of the things a player would desperately want were as accelerated as possible or plagued with really bad luck, like the P38 program. It was set back a year or so by getting the prototype destroyed in an Army record setting attempt.


I miss the equivalent feature in WitP, the ability to rescue Allied units trapped behind Japanese lines. It was nice to send a sub or PBY to grab the last remnants of some Dutch unit and spirit them off to Oz to get rebuilt into something useful. It gave me something positive to do while the Japanese hordes smashed, well everything in sight. I would like to see a realistic way to recapture that feature. Yes, dragging two squads and the regimental flag back to Australia and getting a full regiment in a few months was unrealistic. On the other paw, there should be some sort of ability to pull these units out. I especially miss the ability to pull the remnants of the Dutch air force out. They have a nice collection of PBY’s etc that the Allies desperately need. Yes, there were good or rather bad reasons it didn’t happen IRL. Pulling the Air Force units out of the Philippines was a huge morale hit. Doing the equivalent to the Dutch might have caused mass surrenders. Still the ability to fly out was there and made prefect military sense. Well except that the Dutch high command seems to have been in a pretty hopeless state by that time.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

WitE is a good game..I enjoy it..AI is quite decent. I think main problem is the balance issues in PBEM.

+1

[PaxMondo]

In WitE, I miss the ability to tweak the Axis air like in WIR.  I enjoyed that facet in WIR quite a bit.

[JocMeister]

I played WITE a lot just after release. Its a very good game in some aspects but sadly lacking in others.

As Speedy says the lack of a functioning airmodel and the almost complete absence of a supply model killed the game for me. Doing a "War in the East" and not do two of the most important things properly is hard to understand. I guess they ran out of time and money. Unfourtunanly the UI is very poor as usual with GG games. No "shift click", "ctrl click and other standard things that have been the norm for the last 20 years. Many of the things ingame requires almost as much clicking as AE does. This should not happen in a modern game and its very hard to understand why GG can´t enter the modern era of UI design.

They have said they will add a better air and logistic model in the next game but I doub´t much will be done with the UI.

That being said there are some fantastic things about the game. The way it handles the OOB, the simple but stunning graphics. The AI is one the best out there if you don´t abuse it too much and its competent up until the end game. That gives the game alot of replayability. I really like the fact that they included a 41 up to 44 start. How many here arn´t dead tired of playing 41-42 in AE?

I will almost certainly buy the next game aswell. But this time I will wait for a year or two after realese before doing so. There were ALOT of major bugs after release.