Getting stuck (immobilized) on a river

willebra · Post by **willebra** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 1:33 pm

Greetings to everybody (I'm new to SPWAW). Ok, I'm playing a PBEM-game where I'm considering to cross rivers with different type of tracked and wheeled units (bridges are risky areas...).

Anybode have ideas on the following: How often do you get stuck when crossing a river? What are the factors affecting the probability?

I presume only wheeled or tracked movement units can get stuck (obviously?). Do wheeled units get more easily stuck?

Typically a river is height -1 or -2, so does the amount of rise affect? I.e. is it more beneficial to cross a river from a hex that is at 0 height (to river -2) to a hex that is at 0 height compared to 20 - (-2) - 20?

Any ideas, does the type of terrain before and after river affect (somehow indicating is the bottom of the river soft or hard)?

Does the weight of the unit affect: i.e. is it more likely for an IS-3 to get stuck than for a lighter tracked unit?

Can a unit recover from getting stuck and to become mobile again (in real life this could take some minutes or several hours)?

Thanx in advance.

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:21 pm

Welcome to SPWAW and the Forum. Many/Any of your questions will be answered here happily. I'll give you my thoughts below.

Originally posted by willebra
Greetings to everybody (I'm new to SPWAW). Ok, I'm playing a PBEM-game where I'm considering to cross rivers with different type of tracked and wheeled units (bridges are risky areas...).

Anybode have ideas on the following: How often do you get stuck when crossing a river? [NOT TOO OFTEN] What are the factors affecting the probability? [CHECK OUT THE MANUAL. THERE IS A TERRAIN CHART THAT TELLS YOU WHEN A 'BREAKDOWN' CHECK IS MADE. IIRC, THE FASTER/FARTHER YOU GO ON YOUR TURN, THE MORE LIKELY YOU ARE TO GET A BREAKDOWN CHECK.]

I presume only wheeled or tracked movement units can get stuck (obviously?). Do wheeled units get more easily stuck? [YES, TRACKED VEHICLES ARE BETTER FOR OVERLAND DRIVING.]

Typically a river is height -1 or -2, so does the amount of rise affect? I.e. is it more beneficial to cross a river from a hex that is at 0 height (to river -2) to a hex that is at 0 height compared to 20 - (-2) - 20? [NOT IN MY EXPERIENCE]

Any ideas, does the type of terrain before and after river affect (somehow indicating is the bottom of the river soft or hard)? [ROUGH TERRAIN AND WHEELED VEHICLES DON'T LIKE EACH OTHER. AGAIN, CHECK THE TERRAIN CHART FOR WHEN BREAKDOWNS ARE POSSIBLE]

Does the weight of the unit affect: i.e. is it more likely for an IS-3 to get stuck than for a lighter tracked unit? [NOT IN MY EXPERIENCE]

Can a unit recover from getting stuck and to become mobile again (in real life this could take some minutes or several hours)? [YES, BUT, AGAIN, IN MY EXPERIENCE, IT SEEMS LIKE THE SMALLER VEHICLES RECOVER MOBILITY QUICKER THAN BIG ONES]

Thanx in advance.

Sorry for "yelling" my answers, but I thought they would be easier to read.

In summary, I don't worry too much about breakdowns, they don't happen all that often. It is just enough to make you concerned about it but not enough to halt an attack in its tracks (hehehe). But that doesn't mean I drive over rough terrain all the time (especially with wheeled vehicles). I won't do it unless it is necessary to avoid being seen or shot at.

Jim1954 · Post by **Jim1954** » Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:31 pm

One thing I've noticed about breakdowns is the harder you stomp on the gas pedal, the more often they seem to occur. In a word, don't motor around at full speed.

willebra · Post by **willebra** » Thu Jan 30, 2003 1:41 pm

Ok, speed, that's it... Yep, it suits my observations, didn't think about it till now, though.

Thanx guys.

Hades · Post by **Hades** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:55 am

don't worry too much about breakdowns, they don't happen all that often.

Yeah but when they do i guarantee it'll happen to your biggest baddest tank and it will be stuck in a middle of a forest completly useless. I hate whent hat happens

MOTHER · Post by **MOTHER** » Fri Jan 31, 2003 6:10 pm

when water depth is shallow -1 to -3 [ especially in pacific theatre rivers topography] dont be cute and buy barges or armored boats because they just dont go anywhere from time of deployment to the day you die.your men will just walk accross like J.C. .

Buzzard45 · Post by **Buzzard45** » Sat Feb 01, 2003 12:00 pm

When doing river crossings (without bridges) you will need to buy barges to transport your vehicles. The Barges carriers (BIG trucks) will need firm ground to approach the waters edge.. If you try to go through swampy ground or muddy ground, You will get stuck with these big truck. The armor may not but out of 8 barge carries in a recent game only one made it through the mud to the water to unload its barge. The trucks eventually got unstuck but 1/2 of them got stuck again.

Watch Mud with all types of vehicles. watch rough hexes with tracks, also anything off-roads and trails for wheels. Amphibians seem to be the best at all terains but that could just be a fluke too.

You ARE talking river? not just streams?

Capt. Pixel · Post by **Capt. Pixel** » Sun Feb 02, 2003 3:59 am

Originally posted by Hades
... Yeah but when they do i guarantee it'll happen to your biggest baddest tank and it will be stuck in a middle of a forest completly useless. I hate whent hat happens

Don't forget that they also have to face in the least useful direction.

Griefbringer · Post by **Griefbringer** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:39 pm

Breakdowns not happening too often? True, but sometimes they happen a lot.

In a recent game my LRDG group goes hurtling full speed across open desert. On the second turn, one Dingo armoured car and two Chevrolet WAs get breakdowns - and almost next to each other. Later on in that game one of the WAs manages to fix itself, but the other two stay stuck for the rest of the game, in a place totally out of enemy LoS.

Griefbringer

rbrunsman · Post by **rbrunsman** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:54 pm

CPT Shoe immobilized 2 of my Shermans recently (a 105 and a Dozer) with his tanks and not more than 10 turns later they had both repaired themselves and were rolling along, no worse for the wear. I hadn't seen enemy induced immobilization repaired like that before, but it is possible.

Also, invariably for me, when my opponent suffers a breakdown, it's always right in the middle of my line of advance, so when I stumble upon them later in the match, they take out one of my good units since they are in cover and just waiting to take a shot at anything that happens by them.

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 3:27 am

Don't forget that Motorcycles ARE considered wheeled vehicles!!!! If you play Germany, you have the German problem of extra breakdowns to contend with on your motorcycles. Also since they go so fast, you have an even greater chance of a breakdown each turn you zoom them full speed.

But this is all worth it, since they are maddeningly mobile, can't be assaulted, have quite a few men, and carry not only a decent rifle, not just grenades, but also an MG-34 LMG. (The only thing the much more expensive LMG Motorcycle squads have for them is half again as much ammo... but only 3 men.

)

You may consider using Light Cavalry as well; they have a water movement of 2. They can be a great asset for river/water crossings.

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Thu Apr 03, 2003 11:34 am

Originally posted by Irinami
You may consider using Light Cavalry as well; they have a water movement of 2. They can be a great asset for river/water crossings.

Yep, and don't forget that cavalry can fire while crossing!

(which, IMO, is dumb since you never ride your horse across a stream - you dismount and swim beside it)

As for the tanks, my experience is that swamps are much more dangerous grounds that streams/gullies. In crossing a stream, you can also get your tank flooded. It happened to me in our Kursk battle, but the crew were busy on the bilge pumps and 6 or so turns later they were dry again.

Griefbringer · Post by **Griefbringer** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 5:47 pm

rbrunsman: that happened to me once too (I don't remember which battle), one of my vehicles that had got immobilized by enemy in the early turns got mobile about 10 rounds later - but that is the only occurrence so far, so it has to be rare.

Belisarius: I don't know about WWII cavalry, but in all the Western movies I have seen they cross the rivers on the horseback. Not that movies would have anything to do with reality, though.

Griefbringer

Irinami · Post by **Irinami** » Fri Apr 04, 2003 10:22 pm

The Duke leads my cavalry.

Belisarius · Post by **Belisarius** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 2:31 am

Originally posted by Griefbringer
Belisarius: I don't know about WWII cavalry, but in all the Western movies I have seen they cross the rivers on the horseback. Not that movies would have anything to do with reality, though.

Griefbringer

Heh, I read you.

I was just speaking from personal experience, backed up by photos I've seen from WWII cavalry river crossings.

I would not sit atop my horse when swimming across a river/lake.... it's a bit too much to ask of your companion. And that said, I've never seen photos of cavalry units riding their horses over - they're also swimming beside it.

....but if anyone can show me different I'm willing to change my point of view.

Procrustes · Post by **Procrustes** » Sat Apr 05, 2003 10:10 pm

Breakdowns used to happen a lot more before the code was changed (too many complaints). Personally, I think they happen a little too infrequently now, but I don't think about it that much.

IIRC, bicycles also suffer breakdowns and immobilizations. Is that correct?

I hate breakdowns, and am careful to avoid them. Regarding rivers/streams, I find crossing areas without swamp/mud near them, move my units next to the stream, then wait until the next turn to move into it. The slower you are going when you enter a river/stream/mud/woods/rough hex, the less chance you will breakdown/get stuck/flood. Breakdowns do repair, but there is no way to count on it.

My family owns horses and I used to trail ride when I was younger. Was never in the calvary, but would often sit on the horse as it swam across a stream, even carrying all our gear. (If you pull your legs up you stay dry.) Wouldn't want to put the horse through that for a big river, or if I was being shot at, but I think that you can do it without wearing your horse out. (It does seem pretty unrealistic to use calvary as an amphibious assult group.)

Getting stuck (immobilized) on a river

Getting stuck (immobilized) on a river

Re: Getting stuck (immobilized) on a river

Bogged Down