Idaho defends the Motherland

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A game
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by A game »

Yes its easy to underestimate the panzers, but all it takes is an HQ buildup or two and they are running amok in your back lines, so it pays to defend deep early on and be prepared for any eventuality. You certainly payed the price with Leningrad.

At this stage you should probably just leave a token screening force down south and start building a massive fortified belt around Moscow, as AGN will presumably finish with Leningrad soon and be available for the centre push, though others with more experience may have a better idea of what to do!
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Seminole
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by Seminole »

I'll attempt to hold as long as I can - I pull out via sea move some air bases, but I'm not evacing the army. Like Hitler's orders to the 6th Army in Stalingragd in the real campaign, every week the defenders of Leiningrad hold out, it will help keep forces from attacking towards Moscow from the north.

To that end, keep an empty air base inside the Leningrad defensive perimeter so you can establish 'beachhead' air supply to the units inside once the Germans take the back door (and they will as soon as they decide to, they can commit much more CV (with SUs) to the attack than you can hope to have appear on defense even with reserves activating).
Otherwise your troops will be isolated when the port falls and die essentially without a fight.
Airhead supply. Isolated air units may be changed to beach/air supply status
(same as old beachhead status) under certain conditions. If a player flies in supplies to an
air base in a pocket, the supplies will immediately be distributed amongst all of the
isolated units that can trace to the air base. If the amount received during the turn at some
point equals 5% or more of the total needs of the unit, then the unit will be immediately
set to beach/air supply status (it will display in orange instead of red when toggle
unsupplied units is toggled on). The total needs are the supply+fuel+ammo needs listed
for the unit. So a division with total needs of 1100 tons of s/f/a have at least 55 tons flown
in and delivered to the unit, it will have its supply status changed from isolated to
beach/air supply status. This will last until the next friendly logistics phase. Units with
beach/air supply will always pay penalties for being short of ammo, so there is a
disadvantage in combat to be in beach/air supply (but it's better than being isolated where
there are additional penalties). The air base must be in a clear or light woods hex. When in
Beach/Air supply, the unit detail screen will show the information: Air Head Supply 400 /
20 (5%) which indicates the total amount of supplies+fuel+ammo the unit needs, the
amount it has received via air resupply, and the total percentage of needs that has been
met. When in Air Transport mode, the player can left click on an air base and then bring
up that unit’s detail screen to see a full list of all isolated unit that can trace to the air base,
the total need of each unit, and the amount of supplies that have been sent to the unit. On
the right side of that screen is a line that reads Air Supply Range: 10. By clicking on this
line, the player may enter a different number from 1 to 10. Only units within the state
range in hexes of the air base will be sent supplies that are airlifted to this air base. Air
base units may be moved before supplies are delivered to it, but once it receives supplies
for isolated units, it will not be able to move and then receive additional supplies for
isolated units. Units that are merged or divided track the amount of air head supplies
received, so they can lose their supplied status if no longer over the 5% threshold.
"War is never a technical problem only, and if in pursuing technical solutions you neglect the psychological and the political, then the best technical solutions will be worthless." - Hermann Balck
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Flaviusx
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by Flaviusx »

The German can contrive to gain air superiority over Leningrad and deny air supply.
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governato
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by governato »

There is no single silver bullet to save the city, but I like Seminole strategy: leaving an empty airbase in Leningrad + several transports/level bombers air groups and some escort planes just East of Volkhov river (set on both night and day missions) is a cost effective idea. It does not take much to fly in the 5% supply quota to avoid the isolation penalties. One also needs to make sure to leave a few infantry brigades for reserve activation, but no armored units (they are supply hogs) in the city area. Together with starting on turn one to aggressively fortify hex 83,17 (the backdoor) and hex 85,17 to defend the access to the Ladoga ports it surely helps and may buy a few turns for the defender.

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Klydon
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by Klydon »

The mission now around Leningrad is to delay him long enough that he can't redeploy the bulk of forces there to help with the attack on Moscow before the weather turns all the while not losing too many Russians doing it.

Interesting game for sure. I thought Scar's early turns would doom him, but he seems to have gotten his second wind for now.
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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

Turn 10; Aug 21, 1941..........Clear and mud in the North Soviet Zone

This was a strange turn. I expected a continuation of mass panzer penetrations in the center and south attempting to link up (if he thought I was still being encircled), or them turning east to deepen the pocket (if he read I was pulling out of the pocket). Neither really happened.

Perhaps it was that General Mud made another appearance with mud in the North Soviet Zone - but that should not have prevented either of those two options. Or, perhaps his panzers need fuel - he's got to be at the limit (especially in the south) of his supply lines. He's using alot of air, but that's not going to be enough.

Industry: I pull out 8xArm and 6xVehicle from Kharkov which remains secure. With limited rail due to continued use during retreats (rout actually) in the center, I use what's left to move 2xIL10 from Voronezh.

Command: Haven't really done much with command since appointing Zhukov to the Northern Front (not that that did any good with my screw ups!). I replace Koniev as commander of the North Caucasus MD to get him in the pool, then swap Pavlov from Western to Bryansk Fronts.....which the AI then replaces Pavlov with Koniev. That worked well!!
The biggest issue I have with command is overloaded Fronts. I've got probably close to a dozen armies with ZERO units assigned as they would just overload Fronts if I fill them (those in the Western or Southwestern Fronts, battered from the frontier battles). I have a few STAVKA armies, which I try to keep in secondary lines (such as 32nd Army defending Kharkov), but I have many more army HQs that I seem to be able to use. I'm hesistant to assign newly recieved divisions to armies as that would limit their flexibility (I'd have to commit the entire army or spend APs to re-assign the division), so while I'll assign some to MDs, most remain assigned directly to STAVKA while in the rear areas. Not sure this is the BEST way, but for now, it is what it is...

Screen shots after all moves...

Here in the northern areas, not much happens. The mud does prevent eastern attacks here. He tightens the noose on Leningrad, taking the unfortified positions on the south bank of the Neva River. I figured he'd breach across the Neva - a level 2 fort on the "back door" with weak troops wouldn't have held. But no attack came. Perhaps he is resting for the assault next turn. In any case, Leningrad's 23rd Army will remain in supply for another week!

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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

In the center, we are graced by German inactivity - which allows some time to re-organize the troops moving out of the Kiev Salient, and establish some semblance of a defense.

Reserve Front's three armies are backed up by STAVKA's 34th Army establishing positions near Rzhev.

Western Front is still pulling forces back and attempting to establish the 3rd Army back into the line - currently backed up by the 10th Army. STAVKA's 49th Army will either join the Western Front or be relieved by a 3rd Army HQs - 4th and 13th armies are still largely available and not employed. However, we're at the command limit of the Western Front now, and I don't want to overload the Front HQ, nor do I want to waste APs re-assigning divisions amongst Army HQs. This remains a mess - AND right along the most direct route to Moscow. I've got to fix this soon!

Bryansk Front gains the 19th Army from STAVKA, and establishes a line with the 21st Army to screen Bryansk - I figure his panzers are heading this way shortly! I push three cavalry divisions out front of the line as a screen. The line is weak, but I figure the German infantry isn't up this far yet either. Bryansk Front sill needs another army assigned, as well as a STAVKA army to its rear. Unfortunately, I have other more pressing priorities right now...

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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

It is in the south, I'm surprised - I really thought he'd try harder to take Kharkov. Scar is really massing his mobile forces - the positive with that is when they attack, there is nothing stopping it. The downside is that everywhere else, I can count on little forward progress. A weak PzKps of two divisions can really add to the punch of an army if used properly!

In any case, I've just about made it out of the Kiev Salient without a major catastrophe - one more turn should do it! Right now, two divisions are definately doomed, with perhaps 3 or 4 others at risk. That assumes the Southwestern Front can hold the lines its trying to establish - at least to some degree. His panzers HAVE to be short fuel here!!! His railhead is around Kirovograd - about 20 HEXES south of his leading tanks.

SW Front is still in a precarious postion. The 6th and 5th Armies are weak and fatigued. 19th Army was sent northwest to slow Guderian. 32nd Army will have completed its mission to screen Kharkov next turn, and we can re-orient it. I need another turn of inactivity here.....

Southern Front remains pretty quiet. He hasn't tried to breach the Dniepr line, and I'm betting he's got all his German (and Hungarian) mobile forces in the drive north. I'm not worried about exploiting Rumanian Cavalry - not while I'm on the river at least. I lack depth here though. Not much between the front and Stalino.....except in the Crimea where I'm digging in a fort line at the isthmus.

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hfarrish
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by hfarrish »


I'll admit to being wrong on this game - Scar has turned it around to some extent. Still, you have managed the hat trick of keeping your army intact while still fighting relatively forward. IMO its yours to lose - Leningrad will fall no matter what anyway, and you have him a long way from Moscow, the holding of which seems to be the definition of a successful Soviet '41 at this point.
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by Fishbed »

Wait what?! Odessa has fallen?!
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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

I'll admit to being wrong on this game - Scar has turned it around to some extent. Still, you have managed the hat trick of keeping your army intact while still fighting relatively forward. IMO its yours to lose - Leningrad will fall no matter what anyway, and you have him a long way from Moscow, the holding of which seems to be the definition of a successful Soviet '41 at this point.

Fully agree - Leningrad is lost and Moscow can be held - preserving the army is the most important task right now. I'm not going to go into a full retreat - don't have the depth to do that anyway if I want to hold Moscow. Trying to avoid a mass encirclement - an army or greater - is the paramount task.
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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

Turn 11; Aug 28, 1941.........Clear

With clear weather across the front, I expected a renewal of the panzer thrusts in the center on a Tula-Moscow axis, a grinding fight to begin reducing Leningrad (while the panzers prepared to thrust toward Moscow in the near future) in the north, and supply to limit the advance in the south.

None of that happened!!!

For industry this turn, I pull out 7xArm from Kharkov, 2xArm from Kursk, and 14xIL2 from Voronezh just in case. This leaves the SU2 and 14xveh (plus the HI which I'm not worrying about across the board) in Kharkov, which I expect to be lost. I pulled some of the vehicles out earlier, and the SU2s are obsolete anyway.

For the screen shot below, it shows before Soviet moves. Here in the north, I'm very surprised. My Leningrad defenses are, in my opinion, ripe for the taking. A level 2 fort on the "back door" across a major river is definately forcible. Instead, Scar elects to isolate first by taking out the ports on the east bank of Lake Lagoda. This catches me with weak defenses on the right of the 28th Army, and he pushes within 20 miles of Sviritsa, the last remaining port in Soviet hands. He may also be driving this way to get me to pull back the 7th Army from its positions blocking the Finns up north.

In any case, I take what I can get - his panzers are being run down driving AWAY from Moscow, and Leningrad is left alone for another week. On the down side, I'll need to pull forces up here that I'd rather have left in the Moscow area.


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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

Screen shot after the Soviet moves.

This is what is fun about playing the Soviets in 1941 - creating armies out of thin air! 55th Army is created and Vatutin is placed in command to hold the last port on Lake Lagoda as long as possible. Most of the troops are pretty fresh - either railed from the east or from the Moscow area. Still a good dozen formations are provided to Vatutin, plus artillery and sappers to establish a defense. This includes a tank division shipped from Leningrad. 7th Army sends a division south, just in case...

I'm also able to shift a few divisions in the Leningrad area that were in the fortifications outside the city. The city is better prepared for defense than a turn ago, and as long as I hold a port, it will stay in supply. I can do that for probably another turn. But, he's going to have to bull his way through bad terrain, and probably expand his corridor along the lake - that is going to take forces that could be better used elsewhere.

I'll establish another army under STAVKA control here as a backstop to begin establishing a line to prevent his future drive toward Moscow. Its coming, but better in mid September than in August!

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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

The center remained quiet - I don't think there are ANY panzers due west of Moscow - all seem to be south of Smolensk oriented Southeast.....

Of course, what is good for the Moscow defenses, are bad for the Ukraine. I figured that Army Group Center and Army Group South would link up this turn, but the panzers in the south headed northeast instead of north - I still have a gap. Perhaps he figured Guderian's tanks could close the gap themselves, and move the panzers in the south first - in any case, we can still pull most of these forces out.

Screen shot before Soviet moves....

Army Group Center's attacks are limited to pushing aside the cavalry screen - three cavalry divisions hold up all the panzers!!! They all eventually rout (eastwards which helps), but they take a number of retreats first, expending APs on the apparently fatigued or fuel starved panzers. I really expected them to penetrate the Bryansk Front in force. Didn't happen.

Southwestern Front's 5th Army wasn't as fortunate. Here, I expected minimal panzer momentum due to fuel and fatigue - and instead he blitzed forward over 100 miles!! 5th Army was weak to begin with and didn't stand a chance. The good news is that Kursk was garrisoned, and he avoided it - AND didn't cut the rail, so I was able to pull out the 2xArm.

This penetration does keep the potential of pocketing much of 6th Army and the Kiev Salient remnants - and ALSO threatens Voronezh, which I thought was far enough east to be safe. Now it is threatened - and all its industry is intact. I can also add Orel and Tula to the list of threatened cities from the south. Where is getting the fuel???

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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

Here's the screen shot after Soviet moves - somewhat of a "patch job" is an understatement!

Once again, I use rail to shift an army - this time its the 6th Army, which rails to block the German advance to the northeast and east. The Kiev Salient remnants march closer to getting out of encirclement danger, but, I'm forced to throw them in line - I'm pretty much "ad hoc" between the Bryansk Front and the Southwestern Front - a gap of about 80 miles or so. Very weak defenses. I need another week or two to throw something better here.

With most of the industry out, I rapidly pull back 18th Army toward Kharkov - I don't want to offer a big salient to be cut off either. Without the need to screen Kharkov, I march 32nd Army north to screen Voronezh. A fatigued army out in the open won't do much, but the Germans HAVE to be fatigued an low on fuel, right?? I also establish the new 37th Army to defend Voronezh - made up of a dozen brand new rifle divisions with less than 1000 men each...not much, but give it a week or two....

At this point, as Sep starts, I'm really not sure where he is going next with Army Group South. His panzers are clearly oriented toward the Orel-Tula-Moscow axis, and I'll have to defend that axis as my primary. Alternately, he could strike for Voronezh - at least raid the city. So, I'll have to move industry from there as a precaution.



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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

In the south, not much. Looks like two German korps are massed, and easily force a crossing of the lower Dniepr. Still no panzers in sight. Not even a motorized brigade. Good.

Even so, I pull back off the lower Dniepr as my lines are stretched and all the reserves behind the lines have been sent north.

Coastal Army will pull back into the Crimea. Southern Front's primary objective is to hold the Stalino area. As long as the Germans don't commit the panzerwaffe here, that might be do-able. Just in case, I'll create an army in the Stalino area shortly to focus the defensive efforts.



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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

Turn 12; Sep 4, 1941...........Clear

Calendars slips into September, time for a look at the information stuff.

Industry moved this turn: Kaluga: 8xArm, Voronezh: 3xArm, and Bryansk: 4xHI.

Overall, no major surprises for industry. Haven't lost anything of note except the T-50 factories and of course most of the HI haven't been evacuated so far. With some luck, I'll be able to keep moving industry one step ahead of his advances - if I tried to move the HI, I couldn't do it without losing something else.

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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

Forces available.

Red Army reaches the 5 million mark - will try to preserve that! Overall, still gaining numbers. Guns went down, largely due to the MTOE change for the Rifle Division rather than losses.

Germans still gaining overall strength, but panzers are reduced. They'll gain a panzercorps shortly to offset some of those losses.

Overall, we're steadily moving in the right direction!

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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

Losses over the past month or so.

Good news this month...light losses - at least for Soviet standards.

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IdahoNYer
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RE: Idaho defends the Motherland

Post by IdahoNYer »

Best screen for last - destroyed units...

Was a VERY good month - only lost 1 bloody rifle division!!!

Figure next month will be ugly as Leningrad's time is limited, and with it goes the 23rd Army.

Still, I'll savor this one.....

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