Finland in WW2

SP-Pete · Post by **SP-Pete** » Sun Sep 17, 2000 12:39 pm

Hello all players.Most of campaigns and scenarios has made, most of them are from east and west fronts but not so much from Finland vs Russian wars so now i´m curious. Anyone has made campaign from Winter War or Continuation War ???

Ilkka · Post by **Ilkka** » Sun Sep 17, 2000 3:38 pm

Well basically Finnish battles are side-shows for most people. There are some scenarios of Finnish wars for TOAW. And as soon as I get my stuff ready I will be posting detailed scenarios of the winter war and continuation war for TOAW-WotY edition. So if you are into operational wargames check out TOAW.

Ilkka

varjager · Post by **varjager** » Thu Sep 21, 2000 7:47 pm

I think that northen front is mostly forgotten because there where not any major tankbattles.But it would make perfect for an inf-campaign.The finns fought long and hard for there freedom.

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Thu Sep 21, 2000 10:33 pm

Hi SP-Pete.

As a player who prefers the earlier period of the war with a bent towards infantry action, I would be interested in trying out ANY scenario you might try to do on this theater, should you wish to try your hand at scenario building. Who better to know the details of this war than a person from Finland? Any size, large or small, historical or "what if". I'll give it a try & give you my feedback.

I may not be able to help too much with the technicalities of building, but there are lots of folks on the SPWaW forum to help you out. They may even have or be working on some Winter War scenarios right now.

Bonzo

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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
http://dreadnaught.home.icq.com
nwbattalion@icqmail.com

Yverlok · Post by **Yverlok** » Sun Sep 24, 2000 9:03 am

I've been playing with the SPWAW editor, researching, and sketching some maps with the ultimate goal of a Winter War campaign. Definitely want to make a scenario or two for experience before I start on a whole campaign.

Currently planning Tolvajärvi (12 Dec. 1939) as first. I've got a decent map showing unit locations and directions, but no elevation or vegetation info.

I had little knowledge of this part of the war before I started researching, so any suggestions are definitely welcome. I think that's the reason the front is mostly forgotten in wargames, just because most people don't know much about it. Reading the history is fascinating, though.

Anyone else working on one?

Ilkka · Post by **Ilkka** » Mon Sep 25, 2000 3:23 am

Originally posted by Yverlok:
I've been playing with the SPWAW editor, researching, and sketching some maps with the ultimate goal of a Winter War campaign. Definitely want to make a scenario or two for experience before I start on a whole campaign.

Currently planning Tolvajärvi (12 Dec. 1939) as first. I've got a decent map showing unit locations and directions, but no elevation or vegetation info.

I had little knowledge of this part of the war before I started researching, so any suggestions are definitely welcome. I think that's the reason the front is mostly forgotten in wargames, just because most people don't know much about it. Reading the history is fascinating, though.

Anyone else working on one?

I agree. There are not much books available in English about winter war, or continuation war. In the same time in Finland there are probably hundreds of shelf-kilometers of winter war literature alone.

The area in Tolvajärvi has a lots of elevation changes I think and obviously plenty of forest. Good luck to you with crafting General Talvela's battle.

Ilkka

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Thu Sep 28, 2000 2:06 am

FWIW,
Two boardgames one could use for some basic map and OOB research are: Arctic Storm (I THINK GMT games), and A Winter War (GDW).
There are some books in English available (Did part of my thesis on the Winter/Continuation Wars) but most are outta print. Try Amazon.com.
Good Luck.

Ilkka · Post by **Ilkka** » Sat Sep 30, 2000 2:03 pm

Have not seen the board games you mentioned so can't comment their accuracy, but usually I am a bit disappointed with the data in foreign made "Finland at war" scenarios. Then again I could be wrong in this case.

Ilkka

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Mon Oct 02, 2000 8:09 pm

At least for "A Winter War", the Order of Battle archival research was assisted by Finnish historians, to help overcome the linguistic challenges to the design team. IIRC, one of the designers also investigated the ex-Soviet archives for material on the Red Army. A commendable job, considering that the Russians are still reluctant to release much "official" information about the Winter War.

Ilkka · Post by **Ilkka** » Tue Oct 03, 2000 4:42 pm

Ok well that sounds like reasonable effort to say at least to create accurate game. You are right about the Soviet stuff; the German-Soviet war is another topic where many wargames lack accurate data. Although nowadays a lot of "new" material has come available.

Ilkka

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Wed Oct 04, 2000 1:02 am

I want to see a scenerio were the Russians jump out of low level transports without parachutes. Most of them survived the fall but landed headfirst in deep snow where the Finn's depending on their mood (or sense of humour) pulled them out or left them. Wish I could remember place and date.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a differant direction!

Grumble · Post by **Grumble** » Wed Oct 04, 2000 8:00 pm

The Red Army used that method for infil'ing Special Ops and Partisans. I saw some German intelligence reports where they show a "coffin"-good name- that had 1-2 people and equipment in it, lashed under a Po2. The Po2 flew low and slow enough that it could literally be dropped without chutes into snow or "soft" ground. That was the theory anyway.
Chances of survival were not good, but then that's never really been a factor for the Tsarist/Red/Russian Army.

mlehtonen · Post by **mlehtonen** » Sat Oct 07, 2000 12:47 am

Hey guys!

Long-time Steel Panthers fanatic, first time poster. The topic of the Winter War caught my eye and after reading through the postings I decided to drop in my 2 cents. If anyone's interested in literature on the subject, the book "Soviet Invasion(s?) of Finland" offers a good, broad look at the two most recent wars between us and the Soviets. If you're interested in getting started on the Winter and Continuation Wars, I suggest you try this book. I saw it on eBay the other day and it should be available at Amazon. I can give you the name of the author the next time I visit my book-collecting friend.

Similiarly, there are at least three Finns on this message board right now. If anyone really wants, I'm sure one of us can operate a book-dealing ring. Literature on the Finnish wars is easily obtained here and many of the books are in English. With the strong dollar and pound the books would be pretty cheap right now, too.

Personally I've always found the Winter War one of the most fascinating conflicts in modern history (and I'm not even a raging patriot), and I think many of you would agree.

SAKO · Post by **SAKO** » Tue Oct 10, 2000 10:23 am

Hi guys,

I'm new to this board, but there are some basic info available on the net about the Winter War.

Check out http://www.winterwar.com
for starters, and continue with the links.

Cheers,
SAKO