Soviet Air Advice

[hfarrish]

I've noticed this effect as well - my interdiction, even at 300, doesn't seem to get that many hits (albeit a function of being fairly far from the front) but I have had my fighters at 300 the whole game and have really chewed up a lot of German planes during his interdiction attacks. The loss ratio right now in my game, at least, is probably unsustainable for the Luftwaffe...air combat ratio is 5:1 and improving.

[turtlefang]

Thanks regarding all the information.

Re flak. Was more interested in the impact on German Air Force than ground combat. Ground combat just is what it is and I would prefer to keep AAA out of ground combat if possible (it isn't but I would prefer it).

Re the 5 to 1 loss. Good information, wasn't sure what represented a "good" ratio but this gives me an idea.

[delatbabel]

A couple of other things I do that other players haven't commented on.

Disband the southern Urals (?) air command asap, it eventually turns into a frozen air command that can't be moved or disbanded later. You get more mobile air armies later.

For the same reason, on turn 4, transfer all of the air bases from the Moscow Air Army to the Reserve Air Army, and disband the Moscow Air Army. It also turns into a 0 movement air army that can't be disbanded at some later stage, you want to disband it before that happens (preferably as soon as the reserve air army shows up, so you can recover the manpower and trucks).

I also disband the Northern Fleet air command, and also the Baltic Fleet air command and move its bases to the Northern/Leningrad air command. Or maybe send a couple of the bases south to join the Reserve air army.

Personally I don't waste the APs on disbanding the SAD bases -- they will disband eventually anyway and I'd rather keep the planes up front at the start.

One important thing to do each turn is to open your command window, move to the Air Groups tab and pick up all of the very low morale units and send them back to the reserve. Or, as some have mentioned, disband them. If they have good planes then put them back in reserve and they will pick up morale there. Others can be disbanded. In fact early on in the game I tend to move a lot of my I-15s and other rubbish aircraft up to the front and let them take losses. They will occasionally shoot down some German planes and once they are low morale just disband them to be replaced by better units later. The higher morale units I keep and use spare APs when I have them to swap the planes over.

I have abandoned the separation of planes by airbase type. I used to put all of my fighters in IAD bases, use ShAD bases for tac bombers, etc. Now I just put a mix of bombers and fighters in each base, it appears that 3 x fighter, 2 x bomber, and 1 x something else (tac bomber or recon) per base is a more efficient use of the support than putting 9 x fighter in one base and 3 x bomber in another base (maxing out the support). The only exception is to put transports and some level bombers on night missions into the VVS bases to supply the partisans, and the DBAD bases at the back get stacked with long range level bombers.

[WingedIncubus]

So on which fighters regiments should I concentrate on July 1941? Most of my "fighters" are in fact fighter bombers, like the I-16 type 24/29 and the MiG-3. Should I place them in a fighter role until interceptors arrive?

[cpt flam]

Hi Drakken sorry to tell you that you will not have interceptors
95 per cent wll be fighter-bomber [&o]
generally i try to disband 3 SAD/turnto keep points for other things
i prefer to mix bombers and fighters to have 6 group per base (seems easier for me)

[WingedIncubus]

I'm really, really confused about what are the different Soviet Air Force regiments are in English. Some I could figure out, but others really escape me.

IAD = Fighter/Interceptors
BAD = Bombers
TBAD = Transport bombers?
ShAD = ???
DBAD = ???
OIAD = ???

That's those I can remember out of my mind as I am at work right now. But knowing what is the role assigned to each of these in a language I can understand would help me reorganize my Soviet Air Force.

[Aurelian]

8.2.2. Soviet Air Base Unit Names
The following is a list of abbreviations used in Soviet air base units:
„h VVS - Air Force Air Base
„h VVS-ChF - base of Black Sea Fleet (Chernomoskij Flot)
„h PVO - Air Defense Force Air Base
„h IAB - Fighter Aviation Brigade Air Base
„h IAD - Fighter Aviation Division Air Base
„h BAB - Bomber Aviation Brigade Air Base
„h BAD - Bomber Aviation Division Air Base
„h SAD - Composite Aviation Division Air Base
„h DBAD - Long Range Aviation Division Air Base (also may see AD DD - Avia Divizija Dalnego Deistvija)
„h TBAB - Heavy Bomber Brigade Air Base
„h OSNAZ - Special Use Air Group airbase (OSobogo NAZnachenija)

8.1.4.2. Soviet Air Group Unit Names
Basic abbreviations:
„h AP - aviation regiment (avia polk)
„h AD - Aviation division (avia divizija)
„h AK - aviation corps (avia korpus)
„h AE - squadron (eskadrilya)
„h VVS - Military Air Force (Voenno-Vozdushnye Sily)
„h PVO - Provito Vozdushnaya Oborona Strany - "Air Defense Forces" - includes both Air and Ground units, ie interceptors and AA units.
„h I - fighter (istrebitel'naya)
„h B - bomber (bombardirovacnaya)
„h Sh - attack plane (shturmovaya - IL-2)
„h DD - long range (dalnego dejstvija)
„h T - transport
„h DB - long range bomber (dal'ne-bombardirovochnaya)
„h S - mixed (smeshanaya)
„h R - recon (razvedovatel'naya)
„h NB - night bomber (nochnaya bombardirovochnaya)
„h G - guards designation: GIAP, GIAD, DBAD, etc
 MT - mine-torpedo
 O- separate (otdel'nyj)Air Regiment Designations:
Air regiments


 IAP - Fighter Aviation Regiment
 IAP-KBF - Fighter Aviation Regiment of Red Banner Baltic Fleet (KBF - Krasnoznamennyi Balijskij Flot)
 BAP - Bomber Aviation Regiment
 DBAP - Long-Range (LR) Bomber Regiment (Dal'nebombardirovochnyj Avia Polk)
 LBAP - Light Bomber (Legkobombardirovochnyj AP) Regiment
 NBAP - Night Bomber Air Regiment
 LTAP - (Light) Transport Regiment.
 TAP or TRAP - Transport Regiment
 SBAP - High-Speed (Skorostnoj BAP) Bomber Regiment
 TBAP - Heavy (Tyazhelyj BAP) Bomber Regiment
 ShAP - Ground Attack (Shturmovoj AP) Bomber Regiment
 RAP - Reconnaissance Aviation Regiment
 OSAP - Independent Composite Regiment
 ORAP - Independent Reconaissance Regiment
 MTAP - Mine Torpedo Air Regiment

[Disgruntled Veteran]

Just some pictorial evidence to add to the carnage of Soviet airpower. Late November and the Luftwaffe is shooting Soviet fighters like nothing else. What good Soviet planes do in 1941 I dont know.

[Seminole]

131 LW fighters vs. 46 Russian bombers with no escort whatsoever sounds like a recipe for disaster. Was the fight too far from your airbases that have fighters?

[Flaviusx]

The remarkable thing here is he got that many bombers to show up. It may well be the case that the disorganization penalty goes away earlier than I thought. But yeah, that's just a turkey shoot with no escorts.

[Aurelian]

So how many planes do you have anyway?

[carlkay58]

Way more than you can actually use. And mostly junk stuff in 41 but the later years it becomes a very powerful force.

[Aurelian]

I meant DV, (my bad.) Because there is one who insists that the Luftwaffe can be completely overwhelmed beginning on Turn 2 by biplanes with peasants at the stick.

That the Soviet can reduce the German to 300 fighters by September and 1,200 total aircraft.

(Never saw that in my PBEM)

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

I meant DV, (my bad.) Because there is one who insists that the Luftwaffe can be completely overwhelmed beginning on Turn 2 by biplanes with peasants at the stick.

That the Soviet can reduce the German to 300 fighters by September and 1,200 total aircraft.

(Never saw that in my PBEM)

You probably could if you spam bombed an airfield because eventually the fighters would wear out. Would be kind of gamey, but might be possible. I dont remember off hand but I have a pretty good airforce. Most of my losses have been from flak. My kill ratio is 39 to 1 not including flak.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

I meant DV, (my bad.) Because there is one who insists that the Luftwaffe can be completely overwhelmed beginning on Turn 2 by biplanes with peasants at the stick.

That the Soviet can reduce the German to 300 fighters by September and 1,200 total aircraft.

(Never saw that in my PBEM)

You probably could if you spam bombed an airfield because eventually the fighters would wear out. Would be kind of gamey, but might be possible. I dont remember off hand but I have a pretty good airforce. Most of my losses have been from flak. My kill ratio is 39 to 1 not including flak.

Attacking airfields is IMHO a losing game. I did it for awhile in my PBEM, and lost hundreds for little effect. Flak is nasty. (He has 3100 aircraft, I have 27000 on turn 143. He has only lost 65 a/c on the ground by that time.) A far cry from having only 1200 a/c by Sep 41.

[turtlefang]

OK, I have to ask - is that really possible?

Because if it is, I have totally screwed up using the Soviet Airforce and need some serious help.

[Walloc]

In short: No, not any more.

Unfortunatly it toke said person quite a while to change his opinion on this. Long after the changes was introduced that didnt make it possible any more. That caused friction. Any how he did change his mind last time i saw and thats good. We can all learn. Wasnt until a week ago i realized by these forums that disbanding air units was free AP wise.

Kind regards, and live and learn

Rasmus

[turtlefang]

Thanks for the reply. If I was that far off, then I might as well have given up this game.

[Speedysteve]

I'm always intrigued to know what others do with the BAK Commands and BAK airbases?

[Flaviusx]

Speedy, I disband one of the 4 HQs, and assign 3 VVS bases to each of the remaining ones. The DBAD bases that start with them I actually rotate into Front air commands as VVS bases become available to replace them. (Some of them may get disbanded. I only use 3 airbases per Front in 1941.)

The 3 remaining BAK commands and their attached bases get placed well in the rear and act as Long Range Aviation/Partisan Resupply bases. Place them such that each command and its airbases can cover 1/3 of the front. 3 level bomber regiments and 3 fighter regiments per base. Later on you can add transports to these. If you need to do para drops, remove the level bombers altogether, put more transports in it, and move that base closer to the front.