Best use of Lex and big E at start

[topeverest]

I am curious how various players view the best use of the 2 CV TF's at the beginning of the game. for simplicity sake, lets call it Sc 1 or 2. there are the obvious pasting of Wake if the KB stays in Hawaii, and raiding the marshalls. What other actions are do AFB's think are of high value in the first 45 game days?

[rms1pa]

i tend to run them down to bris then up to south of NG near PM then over to pago pago then back up to PH.

this is not a time to challenge the IJN. do not try to attack anything that has CAP and stay away from betty/nell bases.

if there are any spotted SS's avoid as best you can.

rms/pa

[wdolson]

Mostly the first few months of the war, your primary job is to keep the CVs afloat. Mostly do hit and run raids on the edges of the empire is the best you can hope for.

Bill

[Hooper82]

Use them as a Fleet in Being.

If the Jap player doesn't know where your carriers are, they have to guard against them everywhere. Sure, strike un-covered invasion forces etc. But watch for bait, and IMO, don't get into any fight outside of land based fighter cover.

[jmalter]

best use is to keep them hidden & undamaged - train up their sqns as req'd, don't go offensive until July 42 at the earliest.

you've got a lot of crack pilots in their air component, but they can't shine until their planes are upgraded - and the cruiser/destroyer ships need immediate upgrades as well.

's true, they could go out looking for trouble early on, they could take some scalps. they could also suffer an early defeat, & the Essex-class CVs won't arrive 'til mid-43.

[PaxMondo]

Charge back to PH and save the day!!!   [:D][:D][:D]
 
 
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<totally unbiased opinion here>
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[Crackaces]

best use is to keep them hidden & undamaged - train up their sqns as req'd, don't go offensive until July 42 at the earliest.

This depends on a lot of factors .. for example There are huge differences between scenario #1 and #2 as an example ..

I would also think that the time to attack would depend on the opponent. For example, in my previous game tm.asp?m=2874485&mpage=4&key= The IJ used CVL's for rading purposes ... On March 21, 1942, The Big E and Yorktown took down 2 CVL's and a CVE under an umbrella of Cat's ..

If an opponent were inclined to create small KB's rather than concentrate into one big KB it is quite possible to punch the IJ in the nose. In a different game on APR 10, 1942 the BigE and Yorktown are in 2 TF's seperated by 1 hex. A 3 CV IJ TF is escorting an invasion TF to Canton Island:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Canton Island at 151,139

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 17,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 34

Allied aircraft
F4F-3A Wildcat x 13
F4F-3 Wildcat x 26
SBD-2 Dauntless x 33
SBD-3 Dauntless x 35
TBD-1 Devastator x 14

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 destroyed
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Akagi, Bomb hits 5, on fire
DD Inazuma
.......
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Canton Island at 151,139

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 37 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes


Allied aircraft
F4F-3A Wildcat x 10
F4F-3 Wildcat x 6
SBD-2 Dauntless x 15
SBD-3 Dauntless x 34
TBD-1 Devastator x 14


Allied aircraft losses
SBD-2 Dauntless: 1 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 damaged
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Akagi, heavy fires, heavy damage
CV Zuikaku, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
DD Inazuma
CV Shokaku, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage


vs.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Canton Island at 151,141

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 27 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 18
B5N2 Kate x 65
D3A1 Val x 59



Allied aircraft
F4F-3A Wildcat x 14
F4F-3 Wildcat x 27


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed
B5N2 Kate: 4 destroyed, 6 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 7 destroyed, 11 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3A Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CA Indianapolis
DD Case, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Aylwin, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DD Worden
DD Porter, Bomb hits 1
CA Houston
CL St. Louis
DD MacDonough
DD Shaw, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Dale
CL Phoenix
DD Farragut


The IJ never saw the Yorktown ....

But as a newbie myself I would agree with the general advice that against an agressive IJ player that concentrates the KB is to avoid a confrontation until the Hellcats come in 1943. "Midways" are very very difficult to pull off ... and unlike real life where as politicans are breathing down the backs of flag officers--- in this game one can bide their time ..[;)]

[ny59giants]

I would send the Vindicators SBDs off to the west. If you follow what Q-Ball did vs GreyJoy, they can go to Wake and then Rabaul. Since a heavy CV can hold 5 air groups, I put a Marine fighter group (18 planes) on each of my American CVs asap. Having 45 fighters aboard helps survivability which Bill stated. I like to have at least 2 American CVs operating together this way with the possibility of operating them all together. Having at least 90 fighters and then going to over 200 helps, even if they consist of some old Buffalos till March/April. [:D]

[artuitus_slith]

In my game against the AI I intercepted the Wake Invasion force (after they unloaded), then returned to Pearl and gathered the Yorktown. Then with the three carriers (with a marine fighter sqd on 2 and marine DB on the other) i raided the marshal Is, truk, and arrived just in time to launch 1 strike against the shipping gathered at Rabual immediatly after the invasion. It was risky, but it paid of in my case- i caught a BB in the marshals, a few A/C on the ground, a lot of aks/akls and some support ships/subs damaged at truk. One thing i did to help out was have 2 Bombardment TFs hit the AF in the marshals one day before my carrier strikes-helped limit the cap i had to face and grounded the bombers. The downside to these raids is that I lost a number of planes/pilots, its taken me over a month to replace enough A/C and pilots to field 2 of the 3 Carriers again, fortunently the Hornet came online so i have 3 operational CVs at sea.

Against a human player I'd be more cautious, but from reading the AAR's it seems that most Allied players are too enamored with the idea of "fleet in being" and fail to realize that, while thier oppenent respects the USN CVs, if you dont use it at all they catch on that you are afraid to use/lose them and use that against you. I dont want my oppenent to simply know that i have the carriers, i want him worried that I WILL commit them somewhere, and force him to plan accordingly. Of course I wouldn't advocate having it out with the KB, but there are always going to be opportunities to sting the Japanese player. This is all hypothetical atm though, im sure in my first PBEM game I'll end up doing something dumb and losing my CVs early, but in reality so what? You cant stop that japanese no matter what you do, and the loss of 3 carriers is rather trivial compared to the reinforcements you will gain later. And with most Japanese players choosing to make a play for either china/burma/india or Australia, you're carriers wouldn't be much use anyways in a large land war.

One more thing, while having a few extra fighters is nice, dont use the Marine Corp fighters on cap except in emergancies; thier low exp combined with not being carrier trained means they suffer alot more operational losses than normal carrier trained sqds. Instead use them to escort your strike pakages, freeing your VF sqds to do something like 80/20 cap/rest or 70/30.

Hope this helps,
Gmoney

[wdolson]

I usually take a page from Nimitz. He was under a lot of pressure to do something, but the carriers were too valuable to lose. He conducted a lot of raids. The most spectacular was on the Marshalls in Feb 1942. The Enterprise air group did some serious damage to installations and shipping in the Marshalls and got away with only a few aircraft lost.

Strategically it meant almost nothing, but it was a big morale boost for the US.

It also got the air crews used to combat conditions which paid off in later months.

Bill

[JeffroK]

Bill makes a point about USN experience, while great at start, if you send them to off map bases they get stale.

By the time you get the cojones to bring them into play the KB pilots have been building up their exp points to a level where even the F6F-3 would struggle.

(This includes my rules that CV must have full airgroups at all times, no parking your AirGroups at a shore base unless ship sunk or VERY badly damaged.)

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Bill makes a point about USN experience, while great at start, if you send them to off map bases they get stale.

By the time you get the cojones to bring them into play the KB pilots have been building up their exp points to a level where even the F6F-3 would struggle.

(This includes my rules that CV must have full airgroups at all times, no parking your AirGroups at a shore base unless ship sunk or VERY badly damaged.)

KB`s airwings don't get better, they are so experienced/skilled that they only get WORSE because of the inevitable losses, even if only ops.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Bill makes a point about USN experience, while great at start, if you send them to off map bases they get stale.

By the time you get the cojones to bring them into play the KB pilots have been building up their exp points to a level where even the F6F-3 would struggle.

(This includes my rules that CV must have full airgroups at all times, no parking your AirGroups at a shore base unless ship sunk or VERY badly damaged.)

KB`s airwings don't get better, they are so experienced/skilled that they only get WORSE because of the inevitable losses, even if only ops.

I can attest to this. The more missions you send KB on, the more likely you are to end up with green replacements in the squads. You eventually end up losing them faster than you can replace them. JFBs have to be very careful in how they use KB.

[dr.hal]

Topeverst you have a lot of good advice from the above. In total there are a number of points to consider. First and foremost don't risk you CVs UNLESS you can achieve local superiority and then know that you can GET AWAY intact; second you need to TRAIN TRAIN TRAIN.. and the best way to train pilots is in combat. So once the KB leaves the area (and that's vital) I would do what Nimitz did and have the carriers hit islands of mostly of little to no value. In game terms, combat is combat is combat. So get them into it, but on your own terms. ALWAYS know where the KB is or can not be. Until mid '42 you should avoid that bunch until you have united virtually all allied carriers. Finally, in relation to your original question; I would get back to Pearl, but with those subs, I would enter Pearl from the EAST, not the west... make the Japs work hard for any targets. Use the devastators on asw full time as you approach home. Whether or not you use some tricks of the game, such as putting extra marine fighters on, is up to you. I know that would not really have been an option for the ships in 1941/42, but hey, let's not let reality interfere with our own version of it! I hope this helps. Hal

[Shark7]

And Wake Island might be worth taking a risk on early, as you might catch the invasion fleet near their with no air support. Weigh this carefully though, as KB can be easily re-routed there on its way home.

[Lokasenna]

And if you go for Wake, make sure you hang out outside of torpedo range of the 2E torpedo bombers in the Marshalls... In my very first game against the AI, I lost several escorts and Big E took a torp or two as well, because I wandered into range.

Wake almost always falls on the first combat it seems, but if it holds it might be worth reinforcing. Otherwise, I like sending my CVs to harass unprotected landings (once or twice each) in the DEI/SRA to slow the Japanese down.

[dr.hal]

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

And if you go for Wake, make sure you hang out outside of torpedo range of the 2E torpedo bombers in the Marshalls... In my very first game against the AI, I lost several escorts and Big E took a torp or two as well, because I wandered into range.

Wake almost always falls on the first combat it seems, but if it holds it might be worth reinforcing. Otherwise, I like sending my CVs to harass unprotected landings (once or twice each) in the DEI/SRA to slow the Japanese down.

But be very careful, if you take on Wake, your Jap opponent will know where you are and the KB is not that far away. The first rule should be stay away from the KB and in particular if you don't know exactly where it is, be safe, not sorry...

[rms1pa]

that's a furshure dr.hal,

at least twice i have seen KB come right back past Wake.

if i had been trying to play in that area things could be bad.

Truk to the south, Roi-Namure to the east and KB to the north. not a nice prospect.

rms/pa

[Yaab]

I use Lex to pickup the Wildcat unit from Wake Island while the SBD-1 unit from Pearl Harbour is transfered to E. Both carriers sail to the Solomons where the two airgroups are transfered to Port Moresby.

[dr.hal]

I agree Yaab, I think getting the marine air unit off Wake is a valid move, but something that I don't think the real commanders would ever do! But given that both sides have "prior" knowledge as to what happened in the "real" war, I don't see this as gamey. The same could be said if the Allied player takes most of the troops out of Singapore. Again something that would not have been contemplated by the real commanders, but something that is very much in the cards for the Allied player.