TO&E and OOB information

[aspqrz02]

Romanian Armoured Division

Romanian 1st Armoured Division: 1 x Armoured Regiment, 2 x Motorised Infantry Regiments, 1 Motorised Artillery Regiment, 1 Mech Recon Battalion (2 Motorcycle Recon Company, 1 Cavalry Recon Company, 1 Weapons Platoon (2 Lt AA, 2 47mm AT), 1 Engineer Platoon), 1 Mot Weapons Battalion (12 Lt AA, 12 47mm AT), 1 Mot Engineer Battalion, 1 Mot MP Company

[2 Armoured Car Recon Companies nominally part of unit, but remained in Romania in 1941, dunno about 1942, no organisational details given]

Romanian Armoured Regiment: 2 Armoured Battalions (total of 41 x Lt Tank (R2 = Czeck Skoda LT35), 8 x Lt AA)

Romanian Motorised Infantry Regiment x 2: 2 x Motorised Infantry Battalions (3 x Motorised Infantry Companies, 1 x Motorised MG Company), 1 x Armoured (really Motorised) Infantry Company (4 x 47mm AT, 16 LMG, 4 HMG), 1 x Motorised Weapons Company (6 x 81mm Mortars, 6 x 37mm AT, 6 x 45mm AT)

Motorised Artillery Regiment: 2 x Medium Artillery Battalions (12 x 100mm Howitzers each), 1 x Medium Artillery Battalion (12 x 105mm Howitzer)

In DCCB Terms ...

1) 1 Armoured Regiment, 2 Motorised Infantry Regiments, 1 Motorised Artillery Regiment for a 4 element Division.

2) Armoured Regiment: 109 x Lt Tank (Skoda LT35 or, possible, Skoda Pz-38(t)), 11 x Pz-IIIn, 11 x Pz-IVg, 8 x Lt AA, 10 SdKfz 222 Armoured Cars

3) Motorised Regiment x 2: 1000 Infantry (Romanian), 16 Lt AT (4 x 47mm, 6 x 45mm, 6 x 37mm or 9 x 75mm PAK 40 or 9 x 50mm PAK), Trucks (??), 8 x Half Tracks

4) Motorised Artillery Regiment: 200 2nd Line Infantry (Romanian), 24 x 100mm Howitzer, 12 x 105mm Howitzer, Trucks (??).

Note: Again, no idea how many trucks ... but, presumably, the bare minimum. The Armour Regiment TO&E is uncetain, sources seem contradictory ... or, perhaps, it changed rapidly through CB (for example, I strongly suspect there were only about 40 LT-35 or Pzkfw 38(t)s, rather than the number alleged, and that the Pz. IIIs and IVs largely replaced any nominal additional numbers of those types ... but it's a guess, and no more. Likewise, the AT Gun strength of the Motor Infantry Regiments, by CB they seem to have had 75mm and 50mm PAK, but may still have had some of the early, smaller caliber, guns as well ... it is unclear).

Phil

[aspqrz02]

Romanian Navy

4 x DD (2 New, 2 Pre-War): 2 Pre-War = 5 x 120mm Gun, 4 x 76mm (AA?) Gun, 2 x AAMG, 4 x 18in TT, 30 mines each; 2 Modern = 5 x 120mm, 4 x 76mm AA, 2 x 40mm AA, 2 x AAMG, 3x2 21" TT

Midget Subs: 3 x Italian CB Class (2 x 450mm Torpedoes or 2 Mines)

Submarines: 3 x Italian designed (1 x 102mm Deck Gun, 4 x Fwd, 2 x Aft 533mm TT)

Fleet Torpedo Boats: six

Minelayers: 2

Motor Torpedo Boats: 7

Phil

[aspqrz02]

Hungarian Light Division (East Front*)

Hungarian Light Division (Augmented, 1942): 2 x Infantry Regiments, 1 Artillery Regiment, 1 Scout Company (12 LMG, 2 20mm ATR), 1 AA Company (6 x 40mm AA) 1 AAMG Company (12 x AAMG) ... approximately 15000 men, overall.

Hungarian Infantry Regiment (Augmented): 3 x Infantry Battalions, 1 Weapons Company (8 x 81mm Mortar, 6 x 47mm AT, 2 x 50mm AT, 12 HMG, 4 x 80mm Infantry Guns), 1 Engineer Platoon, 1 Scout Platoon

Hungarian Infantry Battalion: 3 x Infantry Coy (36 LMG, 6 x 50mm Mortar, 6 x 20mm ATR total), 1 HMG Coy (12 HMG), 1 AT Coy (4 37mm AT), Mortar Company (4 x 81mm Mortar) ... NB I suspect the HMG, AT and Mortar elements should be Platoons, and part of a Weapons Company.

Hungarian Artillery Regiment: 1st Battalion (4 x 80mm guns, 4 x 105mm Howitzers), 2nd Battalion (8 x 100mm Howizers, 8 x 149mm Howitzers)

* Organisation only applied to units in Russia.

Hungarian Organisation as per vanilla DCCB: 2 Regiments (2700 Infantry, 30 Light AT, 10 Infantry Gun, 5 Medium Artillery each)

Suggested revised organisation per actual TO&E in DCCB terms -

1) Three Regiment organisation - 2 x Infantry, 1 x Artillery.

2) Infantry Regiment x2: 2200 Infantry (Hungarian), 38* x Lt AT (18* x 20mm ATR, 12 x 37mm PAK 36 AT, 6 x 47mm AT, 2 x 50mm PAK 38 AT), 4 x Infantry Guns (80mm)

* Should the 20mm AT Rifles be included as Lt AT? If not, reduce Lt At to 18.

3) Artillery Regiment: 400 2nd Line Infantry (Hungarian), 4 x Infantry Guns* (80mm), 8 x 100mm Howitzer, 4 x 105mm Howitzer, 8 x 149mm Howitzer.

* Alternately, you could add +2 80mm IG to the strength of the Regiments and delete here.

Phil

[aspqrz02]

2nd Hungarian Army (1942)
Actual OOB: III Hungarian Corps, IV Hungarian Corps, VII Hungarian Corps, 1st Hungarian Armoured Division, 2 x Heavy Artillery Battalions (Mot) (16 x 105mm Hwtzr, 8 x 150mm Hwtzr, 12 AAMG each), 1 x AA Battalion (Mot), 3 x AA Companies (Mot), Engineer Battalion (2 x Engineer Companies, 2 x Engineer Companies (Bicycle), 2 x Assault Boat Companies, 5 x Blocking Companies), 2 x Bridging Engineer Battalions, 3 x Assault Bridge Companies, 1 x Cavalry Bridge Company, 7 x Combat Bridge Companies.

III-IV-VII Hungarian Corps (1942)

DCCB: 6-7-9 Light Divisions, 1st Armoured Division, 1 Engineer Regiment

Actual OOB: 6-7-9 Light Divisions (III Corps), 10-12-13 Light Divisions (IV Corps), 19-20-23 Light Divisions (VII Corps) ... plus (all Corps) ... 1 Bicycle Infantry Battalion (Tank Platoon, Engineer Platoon, 3 x Bicycle Companies, 1 x Artillery Battery (4 x 105mm Howitzers), 1 AT Platoon(4 x 37mm AT, 2 x ATR), 25 Motrocycle, 55 Trucks, 700 Bicycles), 1 Cavalry Scout Company, 1 x Motorised AA Battalion, 2 x Heavy Artillery Regiments (Motorised), 1 x Heavy Mortar Company, 1 x Engineer Battalion, 2 x Bridging Engineer Companies, 2 x Assault Engineer Companies.

Revised OOB for DCCB ...

2nd Hungarian Army: 1st Hungarian Armoured Division, 1 x Heavy Artillery Regiment (32 x 105mm Hwtzr, 16 x 150mm Hwtzr, 32 Lt AA (not MG) 12 AAMG, sufficient trucks, 400 2nd Rate Infantry (Hungarian)), 2-7 Engineer Battalions

All Corps: Light Divisions as noted, 2 x Heavy Artillery Regiment (each with 32 x 105mm Hwtzr, 16 x 150mm Hwtzr, 32 Lt AA (not MG) 12 AAMG, sufficient trucks, 400 2nd Rate Infantry (Hungarian)), 2 x Engineer Battalions.

What to do about the Bicycle Infantry Battalion? Add Infantry to Corps unit itself? Show as a weak Regiment?

Note: Armoured Division is @ Army, not Corps, in July 42.

Phil

[aspqrz02]

Hungarian 1st Armoured Division

DCCB Organisation: 1 x Motorised Regiment (2700 Infantry, 30 Light AT, 10 Infantry Gun (75mm LeIG), 5 Medium Artillery (105mm LeIH), 400 Trucks), 1 Armoured Regiment (100 Lt Tank (Pz 38t), 20 Medium Tank (Pz IVg/IVf), 20 Light Tank Toldi), 20 SP AA (Nimrod)).

Actual Organisation: 1 Armour Regiment (2 Battalions), 1 Motorised Infantry Regiment (3 Battalions), 1 Recon Battalion, 1 Motorised Artillery Regiment, 1 Motorised AA Battery, 1 Pioneer Company, 1 Motorised MP Company, 1 Reserve Armour Unit (4 Lt, 2 Mdm Tanks)

Suggested DCCB organisation ...

1) 3 Regiments ... 1 Armoured, 1 Motorised Infantry, 1 Artillery

2) Hungarian Armoured Regiment: 22 Pz IVF2, 92 Pz 38t, 24 Toldi Light Tanks, 18 Nimrod SP AA, 12 x 40mm AT Guns (Motorised), 14 Csaba Armoured Cars,

3) Hungarian Motorised Regiment: 2200 Infantry (Hungarian), 400 Engineers (Hungarian), 30* x Lt AT (18* x 20mm ATR, 12 x 50mm PAK 38 AT), 6 x 40mm Lt AA, 300* Trucks

* Should the 20mm AT Rifles be included as Lt AT? If not, reduce Lt At to 12. I'm guessing for the number of trucks, should be the bare minimum needed.

4) Hungarian Motorised Artillery Regiment: 24 x 105mm Howitzers, 4 x Hvy AA (80mm), 200 2nd Line (Hungarian) Infantry, Sufficient Trucks (Bare minimum needed)

Note: The organisation of the Armoured Division is confused. Each source I have checked gives significantly different organisations and equipment levels for tanks. The above seems a reasonable compromise. The vanilla DCCB organisation comes close to note of them, FYI.

Phil

[aspqrz02]

Italian 8th Army (August 1942)

DCCB: 900 Staff (Italian)

Actual Organisation: III Corps, XXXV Corps, Alpini Corps, Vicenza Security Division, Barbo Cavalry Brigade, 2 Motorised Artillery Regiments (1 with 5 149mm Battalions and 1 210mm Battalionl 1 with 3 x 75mm Battalions), 1 Cavalry Artillery Regiment (3 x 75mm Battalions), 1 AA Regiment (5 x 75mm AA Battalions), 4 x AA Companies (20mm AA), 4 Engineer Battalions, 2 Railroad Engineer Battalions, 1 MG Battalion, Monte Cervino Ski Battalion, Croatian Legion (Regiment)

Vicenza Security Division: 2 Infantry Regiments (2 Infantry Battalions, 1 Mortar Company (6 x 81mm), 1 Infantry Gun Company (8 x 65/17) each), 1 MP Battalion, 1 MG Battalion, 1 AT Company (Mot) (4 x 47/32), 1 Engineer Company

Barbo Cavalry Brigade: 2 x Cavalry Regiments (2 x Cavalry Battalions, 1 MG Company each)

II Corps (August 1942)

DCCB: 900 Staff (Italian), 3 Infantry Divisions

Actual Organisation: 2nd Sforseca Infantry Division, 3rd Ravenna ID, 5th Cosseria ID, 23rd Marzo CCNN Brigade, 1 x MG Battalion (Mot), 1 a MG Battalion, 1 x AT Battalion (Mot) (47mm), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot) (2 x 105mm, 2 x 149mm Battalions), 2 x AA Companies (20mm), 1 Assault Engineer Battalion, HQ Guard element (Mot)

XXXV Corps (August 1942)

Actual Organisation: 9th Pasubio ID, 52nd Torino ID, 3rd PADA Cavalry Division, 3rd Gennaio CCNN Brigade, 1 MG Battalion (Mot), 1 Bersaglieri Company (Bicycle? Motorcycle?), 1 At Battalion (47mm), 1 Artillery Regiment (Mot) (3 x 105mm Battalion, 1 x 149mm Battalion), 2 x AA Company (Mot) (20mm), 1 Assaukt Engineer Battalion, HQ Guard Element (Mot)

Alpini Corps (August 1942)

Actual Organisation: 2nd Tridentia MntnD, 3rd Julia MntnD, 4th Cuneese MntnD, 1 Artillery Regiment (Mot) (3 x 105mm, 1 x 149mm Battalions), 1 Assault Engineer Battalion, Corps HQ Guard Element (Mot)

Note: II Corps is the only on-map unit at the start of CB Scenario.

Suggested DCCB Organisation to follow,

Phil

[aspqrz02]

2nd Sforzesca, 3rd Ravenna, 5th Cosseria Infantry Divisions -- II (Italian) Corps (August 1942)

DCCB: 2 x Regiments (2700 Infantry (Italian), 10 Lt AT, 10 Infantry Gun each)

Actual Strength: 2 x Infantry Regiments. 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot), 1 x Mortar Battalion, 2 x AT Companies (Mot), 1 x Engineer Comnpany

Infantry Regiment: 3 x Infantry Battalions, 1 x Mortar Company (6 x 81mm), 1 x Infantry Gun Company (8 x 65/17mm)

Artillery Regiment: 2 x Artillery Battalions (Mot) (4 x 75mm IG each), 1 x Artillery Battalion (Mot) (4 x 105/20mm), 2 x AA Company (8 x 20mm each), 1 x AT Company (6 x 75mm AT)

Suggested DCCB Strength ...

1) Two Infantry and one Artillery Regiments

2) Infantry Regiment: 1800 Infantry (Italian), 8 x Infantry Gun (65mm), 4 x Lt (47mm) AT

3) Artillery Regiment: 200 2nd Line Infantry (Italian), 12 x 75mm Infantry Gun, 12 x 75mm Pack Howitzer, 12 x 105mm Howitzer, 8 x lt AA (20mm), 6 x 75mm AT, Trucks (just sufficient)

Note: The Artillery Regiment organisation is somewhere between the 1941 and 1943 TO&Es, as there is none I have found for 1942 ... and is noted to be *theoretical* and that the 105mm Guns were most likely not there, in the many Regiments that were understrength. Take your pick for 1942, but it is unlikely to have been any better than 1943.

No trucks, except in the Artillery. Italian Infantry Divisions were, theoretically, "Semi-Motorised" ... which meant they had enough transport, organic to the Division (not the Regiments or Battalions) to move a Battalion at a time by truck. The Germans were pissed off when they found out that the Italian "Motorised" units were not any better than a German Infantry Division ... and the few trucks the Italian Divisions had were soon clapped out trying to move 6 x Battalions, 1 at a time.

How you represent this is up to you. Me? I'd just pretend the only Motorised unit is the Artillery, which *was* Motorised.

Note: All the Italian Divisions that enter as Reinforcements should be on this scale.

YMMV

Phil

[aspqrz02]

Italian Cavalry (1942)

DCCB Cavalry Division: 1 Cavalry Regiment (2000 Cavalry (Italian), 20 SP Gun (Semovente 47), 10 Lt AT (47mm), 10 Lt Flak (20mm)); 1 Bersaglieri Regiment (1500 Infantry (Italian), 40 Light Tanks (L6/40), 10 Lt AT (47mm), 10 Lt Flak (20mm), 200 Trucks)

Actual Organisation, 3rd Mobile Division, Principe Amedeo Duca D'Aosta: 2 x Bersaglieri Regiment (Mot) (each of 3 x Bersaglieri Battalions (Mot)), 1 x Artillery Regiment (Mot), 1 x Bersaglieri Battalion (Motorcycle or Bicycle?), 2 x AT Company (Mot), 1 Armoured Battalion (L6/40 tanks), Engineer Company.

Suggested DCCB Organisation ...

1) 2 Bersaglieri Regiments and 1 Artillery Regiment ... three elements

2) Bersaglieri Regiment: 2000 Infantry (Italian), 20 Lt Tank (L6/40), 10 x 47mm AT, Trucks (bare minimum)

3) Artillery Regiment: 200 2nd Rate Infantry (Italian), 12 x 100mm L17, 12 x 75mm Infantry Gun, 12 x 75mm Howitzer, 16 x Lt (20mm) AA, Trucks (Bare minimum)

Note: I've divided the single Battalion of L6/40 tanks between the two Bersaglieri Regiments, but, if you want the complication, you could have one with 40 and the other with none.

Note: Doesn't even vaguely resemble the Italian Cavalry Division TO&E given in the vanilla scenario!

Phil

DCCB Cavalry Brigade: Doesn't exist. Even though it should be the only on-map Cavalry unit at start of Case Blue.

Actual Organisation, Barbo Cavalry Brigade: 2 x Cavalry Regiment (each of 2 Cavalry Battalions and 1 x Machinegun Company)

Suggested DCCB Organisation, Barbo Cavalry Brigade: 1200 Cavalry (Italian).

Phil

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

Infantry can't be 100:1 in DCCB!

A Romanian Infantry Regiment has 2000 Infantry in the TO&E = 20000 Infantry by that conversion!

Considering that the Regiment + attachments is really a Brigade, actual strength would be closer to 3000-4000 actual infantry (3 x Regiments in a Division = 9-12000 men, and the 1942 TO&E was 13,500 for the Division).

So, 3-4 Infantry = 1 Infantry point

Phil

What you see on the screen if the converted number - '2000' = 2000 men. The ratio applies in the editor where the TOE/OOB is defined. If you put '2000' in as the infantry number in the editor you will see 200,000 on the screen.

So, the Editor currently says '20' for the infantry SFT type.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: aspqrz

So, that means the 2000 Infantry (Romanian) shown in the unit window on the Game Screen actually = 20000 Infantry?

Or does it mean that it really represents 20 Infantry Points, which happens to be 2000 Actual People.

I'm guessing the latter.

So, the values I am giving are "Actual People" not points. Clear as mud? [&:] [;)] [:D]

Phil

clear

[aspqrz02]

I'll get onto the Germans tomorrow, probably ... and that will be a big project, I think [X(]

Phil

[Redmarkus5]

Thanks. Soviets are badly needed as well. Some people think they are overpowered while others say they have too few tanks.

If it turns out they are under powered at present we might need to look at the combat settings unit-by-unit to give the Germans a slightly better edge.

[aspqrz02]

Soviets after Germans. I suspect that the information on them will be even more difficult to interpret than for the Axis Minors ... and that the TO&E figures will be more or less fanciful for most units in the field, and probably even for those coming in as reinforcements, as per Glantz's comments (i.e. only Guards units were ever close to full strength, the rest could be as little as 20% of nominal strength and still in the front line).

Phil

[Redmarkus5]

Thanks. Even a rough guide will be great. I feel that they are overpowered at the moment.

[Hoyt Burrass]

I've got a copy of Zaloga & Ness. Red Army Handbook, I'll see if I can't post some Soviet stuff later

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: High Krausen

I've got a copy of Zaloga & Ness. Red Army Handbook, I'll see if I can't post some Soviet stuff later

Thanks.

I don't know about you guys, but I am finding Trappenjagd as the Axis with the AI on Normal pretty tough.

[sandman2575]

Whether playing Trappenjagd or Case Blue as the Germans -- the prospect of revising the OOB to give the SU *more* tanks (historically accurate or not) is terrifying.

[Sator]

RUSSIAN RIFLE DIVISION (By S. Sheckells)


Russian Rifle Division - March 1942:

Manpower: Theo: 12,795 Actual: 3500 - 7500

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Antiaircraft Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion

Rifle Division July 1942:

Manpower: Theo: 10,386 Actual: 3000 - 5000

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Antiaircraft Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion


Rifle Division December 1942:

Manpower: Theo: 9,435 Actual: 3000 - 7000

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Recon company


Rifle Division July 1943:

Manpower: Theo: 9,380 Actual: 3000 - 7000

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Recon company



Rifle Division December 1944:

Manpower: Theo: 11,706 Actual: 3500 - 4500

1st Infantry Regiment 1 Artillery Regiment 1 Sapper Battalion
2nd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Tank Battalion 1 Signal Company
3rd Infantry Regiment 1 Anti Aircraft Battalion (only with Guards)
1 Recon company

[canuck64]

Hey guys-you see how this goes...rock paper cissors....

if you make the SU more (historically I'm betting it's correct) sprinkled with tanks....

then you're going to have to break up the German air Groups to try to deal with it, from a balance point of view. Minimally. Or add lots of tactical AT elements on the German side.

As it is, I find the German operational flexibility to be about the same as the Russian, which should nowhere be the case. I'd even recommend adding pp costs to everything (and I do mean everything) the Russians do. My .02

[Sator]

SOME RUSSIAN ARMOURED FORCES IN 1942 (By S. Sheckells)


Tank Battalion July 1942:

HQ Company: (1) sqd + (2) T34s

1 Medium Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) T34
- Platoon 1:(3) T34s
- Platoon 2:(3) T34s
- Platoon 3:(3) T34s

2 Medium Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) T34
- Platoon 1:(3) T34s
- Platoon 2:(3) T34s
- Platoon 3:(3) T34s

3 Light Tank Company
- Platoon 1:(3) T60/T70s
- Platoon 2:(3) T60/T70s
- Platoon 3:(3) T60/T70s



Tank Brigade July 1942:

1 HQ Company
1st Tank Battalion
2nd Tank Battalion
1 Motorized Rifle Battalion
1 Recon Company



Separate Tank Battalion July 1942:

HQ Company: (1) sqd + (1) Kvs + (2) T34s + (1) T60

1 Heavy Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) KV1
- Platoon 1:(2) KV1
- Platoon 2:(2) KV1

1 Medium Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) T34
- Platoon 1:(3) T34s
- Platoon 2:(3) T34s
- Platoon 3:(3) T34s

2 Medium Tank Company:
- HD Unit: (1) T34
- Platoon 1:(3) T34s
- Platoon 2:(3) T34s
- Platoon 3:(3) T34s

3 Light Tank Company
- HD Unit: (1) T60
- Platoon 1:(3) T60
- Platoon 2:(3) T60
- Platoon 3:(3) T60



Mechanized Brigade 1942:

1 HQ Company
1st Tank Regiment
1st Mech. Rifle Battalion
2nd Mech. Rifle Battalion
3rd Mech. Rifle Battalion

Note: SU76 were upgraded to SU85s, then SU85 were upgraded to SU122s.
The Mechanized Brigades did not change structure throughout the war (as far as I can tell).


Tank Corps 1942

3 (1941) Tank Brigades
1 (1941) Motorized Rifle Brigade
1 Mortar Battery
1 Armored Car Battalion
1 Sapper Company
2 Repair Companies
1 Motorcycle Battalion
(w/ Guards) 1 Mortar battalion