Search Arcs

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: AlanBernardo

2. What are the best search air units?

The ones with pilots that have the highest Nav Search skill, and the unit can be assigned to Nav search.

I guess what I meant to say was which are the best type of search units. For example, Dive Bombers generally do a better job at searching than Fighters.

Think about it...[8|]. If you assign a unit to Nav Attack and assign a value of 20 to Nav Search and 20 to ASW....what do you think that means?

A unit assigned to Naval Attack will perform a Naval Attack. A unit assigned to Supply Transport. If you assign a % of the unit to perform some other mission then that % will perform that mission.

This was the reason for my question. Would your above example mean that 20% of a group is doing a Naval Search, 20% is doing ASW, and 60% Naval Attack? In other words, when selecting as such, are all three of these missions equally different missions, each taking up a percentage. For example, say I do choose Naval Attack as a primary objective, but then pick resting 50% and ASW 50% (equaling 100%). Would I then being doing any Naval searching at all?

In game - the 26th BS is assigned the mission of Port Attack, with a value of 80 or 90 assigned to Nav Search. So 80% of the unit performs Nav Search while 1-2 planes bomb a harbor.

So the Primary mission is the same (as far as weight goes) as a Patrol mission?

This appears to answer the question I was trying to get answered. Primary missions receive the same weight as Patrol missions. (In the end I was confused by the use of the word "Primary" in the game, since that implies it's the main mission and as such would receive most of the weight.)


Alan

Primary - secondary

If you assign a unit to Naval Attack you can also assign a secondary mission.

These settings are independent of the percentages you can set at the bottom for search, asw, train, rest etc.

The set percentages will do those missions, however in the case of Naval Attack if the unit does not find a target to attack IIRC it will default to the secondary mission in the pm phase.

But if the unit does perform a naval attack it will NOT perform the secondary, which again are independent of the percents at the bottom.
This should all be addressed in the rule book.

[mllange]

Thanks for the assistance, Gentlemen.

[AlanBernardo]

Let me get this straight, because I am still not sure how this works.

Take the following example:





For the sake of clarity, let's say that I have 10 aircraft ready to go. In the above example I have Airfield Attack selected. Under Patrol I have 50% on ASW and 50% on Search, equaling 100%.

With 10 aircraft, 5 will have ASW as a mission and 5 will do Search.

What happens to the Airfield Attack? Since there are no aircraft left and all are on other missions, then it seems to me that none of the aircraft will actually perform an Airfield Attack mission.

Following this logic, if I set ASW to 30% and Search to 30%, four aircraft (40%) would then have Airfield Attack as its mission.

This was my question all along. Are the missions and Patrol levels all taken as one, with equal weight?


Thanks,

Alan

[Sardaukar]

If you set 50% ASW, 50% Search..there are no planes to fly attack missions.

From michaelm's posts, I remember that all hexes withing 4 hex range are searched anyway (abstracting normal traffic from and to AF spotting enemies). Search arc increases chance to spot enemy inside arc. If you don't set arc, there is percentage change of spotting enemy within range set.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: AlanBernardo

Let me get this straight, because I am still not sure how this works.

Take the following example:





For the sake of clarity, let's say that I have 10 aircraft ready to go. In the above example I have Airfield Attack selected. Under Patrol I have 50% on ASW and 50% on Search, equaling 100%.

With 10 aircraft, 5 will have ASW as a mission and 5 will do Search.

What happens to the Airfield Attack? Since there are no aircraft left and all are on other missions, then it seems to me that none of the aircraft will actually perform an Airfield Attack mission.

Following this logic, if I set ASW to 30% and Search to 30%, four aircraft (40%) would then have Airfield Attack as its mission.

This was my question all along. Are the missions and Patrol levels all taken as one, with equal weight?


Thanks,

Alan

Logic - It's an amazing thing. Its not tricky.

From you above screen shot...If you were to select Naval Attack as your Primary Mission, you would then be given the opportunity to select a Secondary Mission of say Ground Attack.

Then if you set ASW to 30 and Search to 30...you would have 4 aircraft available for your Primary Mission of Naval Attack / Secondary Mission of Ground Attack.

When you execute the turn your unit will fly 3 planes on ASW in the a.m., and 3 planes on Search in the a.m., and if there is an available target (determined by dice rolls/detection etc) it will fly 4 planes in a Naval Attack in the a.m.. If there is not a target available for the Naval Attack in the a.m. then in the p.m. if there is still no available Naval Attack target, it will fly the 4 planes in a Ground Attack because that is the chosen secondary mission, assuming there is an available target for Ground Attack.

In the pm the 6 planes flying ASW & Search will continue flying those missions.

IIRC in the original WitP players did not have the option to assign the % to ASW/Search etc.

[jmalter]

note also on AlanBernardo's screenshot, this Mitchell sqn has dangerous low morale of 57. if morale continues to decrease, the sqn won't fly all its planes.

this sqn needs some TLC pronto!
a) switch some planes to Training, to improve morale,
b) grab a better leader, the current leader is awful,
c) add 4 add'l pilots, preferably trained pilots from reserve.

dunno what this sqn's history is - fatigue is low, so maybe it hasn't been running continuous ops - but it's borderline incompetent to run its assigned missions, and will get worse rapido if changes aren't made.

[mllange]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

note also on AlanBernardo's screenshot, this Mitchell sqn has dangerous low morale of 57. if morale continues to decrease, the sqn won't fly all its planes.

this sqn needs some TLC pronto!
a) switch some planes to Training, to improve morale,
b) grab a better leader, the current leader is awful,
c) add 4 add'l pilots, preferably trained pilots from reserve.

dunno what this sqn's history is - fatigue is low, so maybe it hasn't been running continuous ops - but it's borderline incompetent to run its assigned missions, and will get worse rapido if changes aren't made.

Great stuff - glad I'm perusing this thread; so much to learn and care for.

[AlanBernardo]

Logic - It's an amazing thing. Its not tricky.

From you above screen shot...If you were to select Naval Attack as your Primary Mission, you would then be given the opportunity to select a Secondary Mission of say Ground Attack.

Then if you set ASW to 30 and Search to 30...you would have 4 aircraft available for your Primary Mission of Naval Attack / Secondary Mission of Ground Attack.

When you execute the turn your unit will fly 3 planes on ASW in the a.m., and 3 planes on Search in the a.m., and if there is an available target (determined by dice rolls/detection etc) it will fly 4 planes in a Naval Attack in the a.m.. If there is not a target available for the Naval Attack in the a.m. then in the p.m. if there is still no available Naval Attack target, it will fly the 4 planes in a Ground Attack because that is the chosen secondary mission, assuming there is an available target for Ground Attack.

In the pm the 6 planes flying ASW & Search will continue flying those missions.

IIRC in the original WitP players did not have the option to assign the % to ASW/Search etc.

First off, not only are you repeating what I said-- minus the AM and PM stuff-- but you haven't answered my question, which was answered in a post above yours.

I really wasn't expecting a straight answer from you anyhow.

I asked if ASW is on 50% and so is Search then what happens to the mission selected-- the Airbase Attack?  You did not ask that question.  I suppose you were too busy figuring out your own definition of "logic".


Alan

[AlanBernardo]

ORIGINAL: jmalter

note also on AlanBernardo's screenshot, this Mitchell sqn has dangerous low morale of 57. if morale continues to decrease, the sqn won't fly all its planes.

this sqn needs some TLC pronto!
a) switch some planes to Training, to improve morale,
b) grab a better leader, the current leader is awful,
c) add 4 add'l pilots, preferably trained pilots from reserve.

dunno what this sqn's history is - fatigue is low, so maybe it hasn't been running continuous ops - but it's borderline incompetent to run its assigned missions, and will get worse rapido if changes aren't made.

Yeah, that was an example that I just pulled up. They were a pretty pitiful squad, I agree.

Thanks for the tips, though.

Alan

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: AlanBernardo

Logic - It's an amazing thing. Its not tricky.

From you above screen shot...If you were to select Naval Attack as your Primary Mission, you would then be given the opportunity to select a Secondary Mission of say Ground Attack.

Then if you set ASW to 30 and Search to 30...you would have 4 aircraft available for your Primary Mission of Naval Attack / Secondary Mission of Ground Attack.

When you execute the turn your unit will fly 3 planes on ASW in the a.m., and 3 planes on Search in the a.m., and if there is an available target (determined by dice rolls/detection etc) it will fly 4 planes in a Naval Attack in the a.m.. If there is not a target available for the Naval Attack in the a.m. then in the p.m. if there is still no available Naval Attack target, it will fly the 4 planes in a Ground Attack because that is the chosen secondary mission, assuming there is an available target for Ground Attack.

In the pm the 6 planes flying ASW & Search will continue flying those missions.

IIRC in the original WitP players did not have the option to assign the % to ASW/Search etc.

First off, not only are you repeating what I said-- minus the AM and PM stuff-- but you haven't answered my question, which was answered in a post above yours.

I really wasn't expecting a straight answer from you anyhow.

I asked if ASW is on 50% and so is Search then what happens to the mission selected-- the Airbase Attack?  You did not ask that question.  I suppose you were too busy figuring out your own definition of "logic".


Alan

Next time just RTFM ...pages 150-154.

[AlanBernardo]

Next time just RTFM ...pages 150-154.

Once again and with your knack for being such a pleasant person, the question I was asking about the relative relationships between missions and patrol levels, cannot be found on those pages. It does discuss missions and Patrol levels, but there is no mention about their relationship to each other.

I think it is important to know that if you set your mission to Airbase Attack, and then select Patrol levels that equal 100%, then none of your aircraft will actually attack the airbase.

This is what I wanted to know, and of which you failed to answer. Such an answer is nowhere to be found in the manual, that being the reason that I asked it.

I simple answer from you would have sufficed, instead of your talking around the question I was asking.


Alan

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: AlanBernardo

Next time just RTFM ...pages 150-154.

Once again and with your knack for being such a pleasant person, the question I was asking about the relative relationships between missions and patrol levels, cannot be found on those pages. It does discuss missions and Patrol levels, but there is no mention about their relationship to each other.

I think it is important to know that if you set your mission to Airbase Attack, and then select Patrol levels that equal 100%, then none of your aircraft will actually attack the airbase.

This is what I wanted to know, and of which you failed to answer. Such an answer is nowhere to be found in the manual, that being the reason that I asked it.

I simple answer from you would have sufficed, instead of your talking around the question I was asking.


Alan

Horse Puckey --- Page 151 . Middle of the page -

"

[treespider]

Page 154 -

[AlanBernardo]

I'm sorry, but I see nothing in your references specifically relating to what happens to the Primary mission when Patrol levels, combined or singly, reach 100%. 

The reason being is that there is nothing mentioning that in the manual.  Your quotes don't even remotely hint at it.  Now if you found something like, "If Patrol levels in total reach 100% then no aircraft will fly its primary mission, whatever that mission might be." (There is too much in the manual, as it is, the has the reader having to guess exactly what is meant.)

Oh, well, not important, actually.  It's not there and I think you know it isn't. 

Enjoy your day,

Alan

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: AlanBernardo

I'm sorry, but I see nothing in your references specifically relating to what happens to the Primary mission when Patrol levels, combined or singly, reach 100%. 

The reason being is that there is nothing mentioning that in the manual.  Your quotes don't even remotely hint at it.  Now if you found something like, "If Patrol levels in total reach 100% then no aircraft will fly its primary mission, whatever that mission might be." (There is too much in the manual, as it is, the has the reader having to guess exactly what is meant.)

Oh, well, not important, actually.  It's not there and I think you know it isn't. 

Enjoy your day,

Alan

It is simple...if combined percentages reach 100%, primary mission (if something else than set with percentages) is not flown. Manual says it quite clearly in those references. Obviously, one does not have planes available for Naval Attack if flying 50% Search, 50% ASW, for example.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: AlanBernardo

I'm sorry, but I see nothing in your references specifically relating to what happens to the Primary mission when Patrol levels, combined or singly, reach 100%. 

The reason being is that there is nothing mentioning that in the manual.  Your quotes don't even remotely hint at it.  Now if you found something like, "If Patrol levels in total reach 100% then no aircraft will fly its primary mission, whatever that mission might be." (There is too much in the manual, as it is, the has the reader having to guess exactly what is meant.)

Oh, well, not important, actually.  It's not there and I think you know it isn't. 

Enjoy your day,

Alan

Its called a word problem...they taught them in elementary school.

So you have 100 of something and you use 100 of something to do X ...how much of the remainder of the somethings are available to do Y ?

100-100=0

[AlanBernardo]

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: AlanBernardo

I'm sorry, but I see nothing in your references specifically relating to what happens to the Primary mission when Patrol levels, combined or singly, reach 100%. 

The reason being is that there is nothing mentioning that in the manual.  Your quotes don't even remotely hint at it.  Now if you found something like, "If Patrol levels in total reach 100% then no aircraft will fly its primary mission, whatever that mission might be." (There is too much in the manual, as it is, the has the reader having to guess exactly what is meant.)

Oh, well, not important, actually.  It's not there and I think you know it isn't. 

Enjoy your day,

Alan

Its called a word problem...they taught them in elementary school.

So you have 100 of something and you use 100 of something to do X ...how much of the remainder of the somethings are available to do Y ?

100-100=0

Might I add, in passing, that you are a real oddball, seeming to go off on things that have no relation to anything that might be under discussion.

To the point here, this whole thing is not about the specific calculations involved (your snide remark about elementary math)but about what should be included in the calculation.

Is that so hard to comprehend? I only hope that you are purposely doing this just to stir things up, but I'm truly not sure. Maybe it's just that you realize that you've been on the wrong track from the start of this conversation, and are just trying to cover this through obfuscation.

But then that seems unlikely, all things being considered.

There really is only one thing I do when meeting up with stubborn people. I avoid them, completely and totally.

So this whole thing, for me at least, has ended.


Alan

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Random means it will go out 360 degrees, but based upon the number of planes you have it will take some number of days to complete the arc.  has uses, particularly on ships for ASW.

And, I leave my searching carrier aircraft on random. You need to be looking everywhere with your carriers but then must allot enough aircraft for searching to do so.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Unless it has been changed in the latest patch, search planes out on a random setting do not daily adjust their search area to eventually cover (over a period of time) all 360 degrees. A random setting starts off at 0 degrees and subject to having sufficient aircraft assigned proceeds in clock direction. If only sufficient planes have been assigned to cover 90 degrees, then that was the only coverage area (0-90 degrees) one ever had searched.

Alfred

Alfred, I don't know if this is correct or not. Don't know enough to say for sure but I have never set my carrier search planes to anything but random. Generally, in a large TF I have my TBFs set to 20% search and my DBs set to 10%. I can't recall ever not detecting an enemy TF in range no matter what the direction. If what you say is correct then as I understand it all of my planes would only be searching into the northeast quadrant and leaving all other sectors unsearched. But this has not been my experience.

[Sardaukar]

ORIGINAL: AlanBernardo

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: AlanBernardo

I'm sorry, but I see nothing in your references specifically relating to what happens to the Primary mission when Patrol levels, combined or singly, reach 100%. 

The reason being is that there is nothing mentioning that in the manual.  Your quotes don't even remotely hint at it.  Now if you found something like, "If Patrol levels in total reach 100% then no aircraft will fly its primary mission, whatever that mission might be." (There is too much in the manual, as it is, the has the reader having to guess exactly what is meant.)

Oh, well, not important, actually.  It's not there and I think you know it isn't. 

Enjoy your day,

Alan

Its called a word problem...they taught them in elementary school.

So you have 100 of something and you use 100 of something to do X ...how much of the remainder of the somethings are available to do Y ?

100-100=0

Might I add, in passing, that you are a real oddball, seeming to go off on things that have no relation to anything that might be under discussion.

To the point here, this whole thing is not about the specific calculations involved (your snide remark about elementary math)but about what should be included in the calculation.

Is that so hard to comprehend? I only hope that you are purposely doing this just to stir things up, but I'm truly not sure. Maybe it's just that you realize that you've been on the wrong track from the start of this conversation, and are just trying to cover this through obfuscation.

But then that seems unlikely, all things being considered.

There really is only one thing I do when meeting up with stubborn people. I avoid them, completely and totally.

So this whole thing, for me at least, has ended.


Alan

You have been answered correctly by several veteran players/testers etc. in this thread. If you don't believe us, it's easy to test. Set your patrols to 100% and primary mission to Naval Attack. You will find out that they will not fly attack missions. Percentages set override primary mission. Treespider is absolutely correct, 100-100 = 0

That is how game is designed and it's not going to change. It's how it is.