Best use of Lex and big E at start

[AW1Steve]

To put it succinctly, I belive the best use of Lexington, Enterprise, and all of your CV's in the 1st couple of the months is to train your future fleet and it's aviators. To engage the KB , or any part of it, is in my mind the equivalent of sending a high school junior varsity football team up against a superbowl bound pro team. While not exactly murder, it's foolishness in the extreme. To lose these ships and their aviators is "eating your seed corn". They need to be as far from the action as they can, and in relative safety they can train, fill out their understrength air wings, and develop into the deadly weapon they will become (if they survive to maturity).

The Wake DET of fighters is simply that , a DET of a squadron at PH. Let it die, it will grow back if you need it. And in the mean while it will prune the "Netties" and more importantly , their pilots, till Wake falls. The DB's for Midway are still aboard Lexington . Keep them there, or fly them off, it doesn't matter. They are Vindacators, with longer range than Dauntlases, and can "self evacuate" if necessary.

Your Jappanese opponent may go "carrier hunting" after PH (if he strikes at all). So go south young man. Or any place that the KB can't. Visit Pago Pago, or Tahiti, or Panama for that matter. DOn't run to PH, SF or anywhere else that he may have a submarine picket line. Don't underestimate the danger of a well placed sub. 1/3 of the Prewar USN CV's were sunk by subs! Your own ASW is pathetically weak, and even if he only damages a CV, it will be out of action for months.

Sir Robin is definately the rule for your CV's. Raid if you think you can get away with it, (but you'd better know EXACTLY where the KB is, preferably raiding the Indian ocean!) before you risk them.

IF you preserve your CV's , IF you conserve and train your pilots , by the end of May you will have 6 CV's (same number as the KB), you will have full airgroups of experinced pilots, you will have replaced almost all of your TBD's with TBF's, most of your ships will have been upgraded with RADAR , decent ASW and a whole lot more AAA. Fast BB's and CLAA's are arriving monthly. In other words , Sir Robin will have grown teeth! By combinning good use of your PBY's (if you haven't squandered them in anti shipping strikes) and toothless SS's in scouting lines , you'll know where the KB is (or isn't) and by using the support of LBA you can engage the KB, and win!

So early in the game you really have to ask yourself, is it worth losing my CV's in a "feel good" raid that really can't accomplish much , or will I show some discipline and self restraint so that I can begin a march back accross the Pacific as EARLY as possible? [:)]

[SBD]

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

To put it succinctly, I belive the best use of Lexington, Enterprise, and all of your CV's in the 1st couple of the months is to train your future fleet and it's aviators. To engage the KB , or any part of it, is in my mind the equivalent of sending a high school junior varsity football team up against a superbowl bound pro team. While not exactly murder, it's foolishness in the extreme. To lose these ships and their aviators is "eating your seed corn". They need to be as far from the action as they can, and in relative safety they can train, fill out their understrength air wings, and develop into the deadly weapon they will become (if they survive to maturity).

The Wake DET of fighters is simply that , a DET of a squadron at PH. Let it die, it will grow back if you need it. And in the mean while it will prune the "Netties" and more importantly , their pilots, till Wake falls. The DB's for Midway are still aboard Lexington . Keep them there, or fly them off, it doesn't matter. They are Vindacators, with longer range than Dauntlases, and can "self evacuate" if necessary.

Your Jappanese opponent may go "carrier hunting" after PH (if he strikes at all). So go south young man. Or any place that the KB can't. Visit Pago Pago, or Tahiti, or Panama for that matter. DOn't run to PH, SF or anywhere else that he may have a submarine picket line. Don't underestimate the danger of a well placed sub. 1/3 of the Prewar USN CV's were sunk by subs! Your own ASW is pathetically weak, and even if he only damages a CV, it will be out of action for months.

Sir Robin is definately the rule for your CV's. Raid if you think you can get away with it, (but you'd better know EXACTLY where the KB is, preferably raiding the Indian ocean!) before you risk them.

IF you preserve your CV's , IF you conserve and train your pilots , by the end of May you will have 6 CV's (same number as the KB), you will have full airgroups of experinced pilots, you will have replaced almost all of your TBD's with TBF's, most of your ships will have been upgraded with RADAR , decent ASW and a whole lot more AAA. Fast BB's and CLAA's are arriving monthly. In other words , Sir Robin will have grown teeth! By combinning good use of your PBY's (if you haven't squandered them in anti shipping strikes) and toothless SS's in scouting lines , you'll know where the KB is (or isn't) and by using the support of LBA you can engage the KB, and win!

So early in the game you really have to ask yourself, is it worth losing my CV's in a "feel good" raid that really can't accomplish much , or will I show some discipline and self restraint so that I can begin a march back accross the Pacific as EARLY as possible? [:)]

+1

I think Steve has this nailed pretty well. This reminds me of what a guy called Jimh009 said in his AAR (Allied vs. Jap AI) just after the game came out:

The Importance of CV's

Your question brings up another point. My play style probably differs from most gamers on this site in that I'm highly conservative - damn near paranoid, in fact - in how I use CV's (whether Allied of Japanese). Unless one of "my rules" are triggered, in fact, my Carriers are generally left in port.

I've long thought that many players over-use their CV's and don't fully grasp the importance of them. To me, sending CV's off on "raids" deep into enemy territory is a high-risk/low-reward scenario in all but that rarest of circumstances (like Dec. 7th). "Nuking" some hapless merchant vessels and destroying an air base or two is small gain to the potential of loss should "something go wrong" in the raid.

In particular, I don't think many new players to the game recognize the long-term strategic disaster that happens if one-side comes out on the losing end of a big carrier battle. Similarly, I don't think many players realize how the initiative - and thus the entire game's strategy - subtly and sometimes not-so-subtly shifts through the simple loss of a few CV's.

How Losing CV's Hurt

Losing CV's is more than just lost VP's. Or the lost ability to sink enemy ships. Instead, losing CV's can completely shift the entire strategy in the Pacific. Let me give a few examples.

If the Allies come out on the losing end of a big carrier clash with the Japanese, and lose three carriers and the Japanese lose none (as is often the case as seen in other AAR's), the Allies have essentially lost the initiative to the Japanese for ALL of 1942 and at least through the middle of 1943.

What this means is that the Allies will not only lack the ability to prevent the Japanese from "laying claim" to a spot on the map and calling it their own, but also will NOT have the strength to retake and hold the lost territory except for distant bases that lie far outside of the Japanese defensive perimeter like Midway/Aleutians/etc...

Let's take Guadalcanal as a real life example. What would have happened if the Battle of Midway had the opposite results? What if the three Allied CV's were sunk instead of the four Japanese CV's? If that result had happened, the Allies would never have been able to invade Guadalcanal in August of 1942. The lack of naval airpower would have doomed the invasion. And even if the Marines managed to make it ashore, the Japanese - due to their naval superiority - would have been able to cut off all supplies to Guadalcanal as well as be able to reinforce Japanese units on Guadalcanal at their leisure and without worry of US naval interference.

I bring this point up to highlight how the loss of a few carriers can entirely shift the strategy in the Pacific. Without carriers, the US never could have embarked on the Guadalcanal invasion (and all the subsequent operations that followed in the South Pacific). With Carriers - and because the Japanese Navy had suffered such a catastrophic defeat at Midway - the US was able to do it...barely.....


Jim's Rules for Using Carriers

I only bring out my Carriers - whether Allied or Japanese - to do one of the following:

1. Where my force is numerically superior, I'll bring them out in order to prevent the enemy from conquering new territory.
2. Where my force is numerically superior, I'll bring out the CV's in order to expand my own territory.

Following these rules - boring as they are - goes a long ways towards keeping a players CV's floating.

This does NOT mean that the Allied player needs to sit around until 1943 until the US Navy is "larger" than the IJN. Instead, it means on a tactical level that the Allied player NEVER commits their carriers to a battle where the IJN has superiority in CV's and air units. Or, to put it another way, the player only commits their CV's where there is a very, very high probability of success and a very, very low probability of failure.

This also does NOT mean that the Allied player will never engage defenseless Japanese ships on occasion (and vice versa). As this AAR demonstrates, there is PLENTY of opportunities for a players CV's to pounce on defenseless ships. The difference is that this arises during the pursuit of one of the two above rules - NOT by sending the CV's out on a big raid into enemy controlled territory. Thus, in this game the Allies have sunk plenty of Japanese ships in the South/Central Pacific during the course of operations to take/hold/secure the bases at Lunga/Milne Bay/Munda/Canton Island.

His use of the phrase "high risk/low reward" in regards to some of the early Allied carrier ops is something that really stuck with me.

[Encircled]

Surely it all depends on what opportunities offer themselves?

If you don't do anything with them for months, then your opponent is going to love that

[casmithasl]

My Carriers seem to be Japanese submarine torpedo magnets. Saratoga collected two on the way from the WC to Pearl. Enterprise collected two NW of Baker Island. Then Lexington ran into Kako and company North of Pago Pago, and Yorktown ran into Oi and company near Midway.

[crsutton]

The best use is not to Lose them. Simple.

[casmithasl]

I didn't lose them, Lex is back in action, Yorktown will be out in a week, Enterprise two weeks after that, but I haft to wait five months for Saratoga.

[Q-Ball]

There is some good advice here. I think the US has to use the CVs early, if for no other reason than you have to prove you can use them. I think you have to follow 2 Prime Directives:

1. Do not tangle with KB, or anything approaching a straight-up fight with CVs. Only engage if you are certain of overwhelming odds
2. Do not sail them within 12 hexes of any size-2 or greater airbase, that has any chance of having an Air HQ at.

I would sail LEX right away toward Wake. Send the Vindicators to Wake/Rabaul right away, and pick-up the Wildcats on Wake for extra CAP. Hang around Wake Is., and sink any attempt to take it. If KB starts heading that way, though, flee northward.

I like to sail ENTERPRISE immediately SW toward the Solomons. You can often pick-off an invasion of Tarawa, and if ENTERPRISE appears in the Solomons, that will halt any progress toward Rabaul without KB present. This is useful. After that, you can send it toward the DEI or elsewhre.

Nygiants has good advice, enhance the fighters with Marines

Most importantly, though, always know where the Japanese CVs are, and if you don't know, then assume they could be anywhere. Be conservative.

The odds changes more in your favor in a fight with each of the following events:

1. 4/42 fleet upgrade that increases FLAK on every ship in the fleet
2. 5/42 availability of TBF; big upgrade
3. Presence of WASP. Even better, not a bad idea to merge the RN CVs with the USN ones
4. 10/42 is another flak/radar upgrade for many ships; plus, fighter groups expand

[Chickenboy]

The authors of Shattered Sword had a nice summary of the misuse of the Japanese carriers at Midway that led to their destruction. I believe that it holds true for the Allied carrier fleet in the first few months of the war.

To paraphrase-there are exactly two strategic goals for the Allies in the Pacific in the first few months of the war: those that require ALL Allied carriers and those that require NONE.

No half measures. No 1 CV raids. Concentrate your strength-wait for Saratoga (at least), Wasp and Hornet if you can and focus on a critical strategic goal. The tendency to flit here and there with light raiding forces is a strategic misuse of these critical pieces of hardware, IMO.

[crsutton]

My answer may have been a little glib but the advice holds true.
 
I have two major rules with the Allies in the first month of the war.
 
1. In 1942, you can use and lose just about any asset but your carriers and be OK. So, I am willing to risk anything but my carriers when confronting the Japanese bullet. Confronting KB early on is a crap shoot and you may win but the odds are not in the Allies favor, so why wager more than you can afford to lose.
 
2 If I decide to commit my carriers to action, the mission is cancelled if I am not 100% sure of KBs whereabouts at the time the mission is due to go on. In my campaigns, I passed up two serious chances to inflict a nasty blow to my opponent because I did not know where KB was. Keep your six carriers intact into 1943 and there is no reason why you should not win the game.
 
There is a small window of opportunity when the Allies briefly have 9 fleet carriers in 1942. If given a chance to fight KB on even grounds during this phase I might do it. But it is a short window as the Brits get two carriers recalled.

[FatR]

I think that, barring highly unconventional strategies, the best use for Allied carriers very early on is to raid shipping around Sakhalin. Japanese defences are nearly nonexistent there at the start and preventing carrier raids away major fronts, is, in general, difficult, as I discovered by being successfully attacked there in both my my Japanese PBEMs and doing so myself. Marshalls after opening Jap invasions is a worse target, because you can easily lose a number of good pilots to Jap fighters and are unlikely to catch a soft convoy. Ships in port are much less vulnerable. Then it is highly situational. I used my carriers aggressively, to counter Jap advances when I knew where KB is, when playing as Allies, and had some successes, but lost one as a result.

[WO Katsuki]

historically the IJN threw away their veteran aircrews..

every raid they perfromed (darwin, colombo, etc.. ) wore down their numbers that by the time of midway they were a skeleton force,

better to have sent rookies on those raids, and kept the best pilots alive for the big battles

every one of those expert pilots could have been an instructor and trained 100 decent 60 exp pilots each,




having said that though.. the USN put their carries in amazing levels of risk with their raids (marshalls raid, doolittle raid, rabaul raid)

any one of those raids could have been sunk with a proper number of bettys+zeroes


so what to do with those carriers?

a) run and hide

b) disembark the carrier planes and use them at port moresby to train them up

c) stick your finger in the pencil sharpener, and hope you find a cookie rather than a blade

[AW1Steve]

I've always found that a carrier group of one or two carriers is a very fragile thing. Four or more is a club. Six to eight well trained carriers with decent aircraft and a strong escort is a force to be reckoned with. In massing that group, you are , in fact , creating a Yankee KB. There is something to be said about having an equal , or stronger force to challenge the KB with. You wouldn't want to go up against a guy with a chainsaw with a baseball bat. Waiting, building and training your own KB , is delaying "self gratification" till you can meet your enemy on a level playing field.