A Lemon rises in the East: SqzMyLemon (J) vs. JocMeister (A)

[SqzMyLemon]

Since the majority of PBEM games seem to be Scenario 2 or a mod based equivalent that give the Japanese the ability to knock Australia or India out of the war, I'm wondering what people think a Japan limited to a Scenario 1 OOB can accomplish. Can full scale invasions of Australia or India be successful under this OOB? What are your thoughts?

[ny59giants]

Luzon will be invaded early after all, but only with a division and a half worth of troops followed by artillery and support units.

This is not enough, IMO. Maybe after you have pushed the Allies back to only one base, but not at start. I would come out to challenge such a meager force.

Can full scale invasions of Australia or India be successful under this OOB? What are your thoughts?

I would say you need to have done very well in pushing back the Chinese and have been able to use your PPs to buy out some of the best troops. There are three high quality divisions in Manchuria that need to go first. They have experience levels about 75.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Luzon will be invaded early after all, but only with a division and a half worth of troops followed by artillery and support units.

This is not enough, IMO. Maybe after you have pushed the Allies back to only one base, but not at start. I would come out to challenge such a meager force.

This is just an initial lodgement force to allow me to build up airbases for the destruction of Allied air in the Philippines. It does present an opportunity for the Allies to get frisky, but I'd prefer that than digging them out of Bataan, Clark Field and Manilla. I'd welcome a forward defence, it might even be the plan. [;)]

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Since the majority of PBEM games seem to be Scenario 2 or a mod based equivalent that give the Japanese the ability to knock Australia or India out of the war, I'm wondering what people think a Japan limited to a Scenario 1 OOB can accomplish. Can full scale invasions of Australia or India be successful under this OOB? What are your thoughts?

You don't need a full scale invasion to derive asymetrical benefits. Think of economy of scale, made possible by holding the strategic initiative.

India always draws Japanese covetous eyes but I have often tried to point out, publicly and in private, that the ROI is far better in Australia than India. Here are just three hints (there are other additional factors) why the ROI from Australia is better :

• garrison requirements
• strategic VPs
• location of line of death

Alfred

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

You don't need a full scale invasion to derive asymetrical benefits. Think of economy of scale, made possible by holding the strategic initiative.

India always draws Japanese covetous eyes but I have often tried to point out, publicly and in private, that the ROI is far better in Australia than India. Here are just three hints (there are other additional factors) why the ROI from Australia is better :

• garrison requirements
• strategic VPs
• location of line of death

Alfred

Thanks for posting Alfred. I've always wanted to do an Australian invasion and agree it can achieve more for less than an Indian gambit. Luckily, my initial plan of conquest will allow me time to debate the ultimate choice of Australia, or my original intention of Ceylon and Calcutta, without causing any major changes over the next month or two. I can prepare for either option at this stage, and will.

[SqzMyLemon]

I received the turn a day early from Jocke and of course had to go home at lunch and run it. [:D]

Nothing spectacular, but there was one interesting development. More on that in a minute.

Opening sweep of Allied air in the Philippines was ok. The entire Allied fighter force in the Philippines is based at Manila, and A6M2's from Takao claimed around 20+ Allied aircraft downed for the loss of six Zero's. Numbers and range worked against me, but that will change as Allied losses increase and airfields closer in range become operational.

Jocke is doing a good job saving his valuable shipping. No tankers or naval support ships sunk, let alone spotted yet. A few Japanese SCTF's of CL's and DD's avoided engaging lone enemy transports, not sure what is up with that, but needless to say some Captains will be replaced immediately upon return to port. A few single transports were sunk by a small SCTF, but used up their long lance torpedoes. This bugs me when these valuable weapons are wasted on single transports. [:-]

The 2nd Formosa Rgt. and 3rd Ind. Eng. Rgt. lands at Aparri on Luzon. Others will follow.

Kuantan, Singkawang and Kuching amphibious TF's are south of Saigon heavily escorted by surface ships. An Air Flotilla HQ will begin unloading at Kota Bharu tomorrow. That means Zero LRCAP and Betty's can immediately cover these operations.

Manado and Ternate amphibious TF's will land tomorrow if all goes well. CVL Ryujo and strong surface ships will provide cover. CV Kaga, CVL Zuiho and CVE Hosho are four days from Babeldoab. They will be able to support operations against Kendari and Ambon.

There was a sub vs. sub encounter and Japan prevailed, sinking the Dutch SS O20. Allied duds and misses are already a factor, as a number of Japanese ships avoided damage today. SS I-26 begins her war career by whiffing on the xAP Lurline S.W. of San Francisco. This is the interesting development I spoke of above, and indicates early Allied movement from the West Coast to Hawaii.

KB has disappeared from Allied air search and will immediately head East, towards the U.S. It appears Jocke believes KB is retiring and may not suspect an early raid along the LOC to Hawaii, hence why his shipping is already leaving San Francisco. I'm tempted to wait, but xAP Lurline is a big troop transport and bagging her along with any others this early could slow the Allied buildup. There's also the possibility that CV Saratoga will be ordered immediately for Pearl from San Diego. Wouldn't that be a prize to catch! With this in mind, I have ordered a large number of submarines to set up a picket line between the West Coast and Hawaii to hopefully provide sufficient intelligence so KB can strike.

More to follow...

[Cribtop]

I would say with good play NW Oz is easy in Scenario 1, Perth or NE Oz doable without too much trouble. Perth, NE Oz and NW Oz is probably the most you can get in Scenario 1, and going for all three would be tough unless carefully planned.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

I would say with good play NW Oz is easy in Scenario 1, Perth or NE Oz doable without too much trouble. Perth, NE Oz and NW Oz is probably the most you can get in Scenario 1, and going for all three would be tough unless carefully planned.

+1

I would only add that this assumes minimal mistakes on the part of your opponent. If he makes a bad move or two in China, that may very well free up enough units for you to do the 3 areas in Oz.

[ny59giants]

There was a sub vs. sub encounter and Japan prevailed sinking the Dutch SS O20

She and O19 are the two Dutch minelaying subs. I would miss her. [:(]

[SqzMyLemon]

120941 Update:

Sub Ops:

SS I-155 elects to not attack xAKL Circe near Singkep. Pardon? [:-]
SS I-122 is forced under by escorts near Toboali.
SS I-157 finishes off previously damaged AMC Kanimlba near Singkawang. (Now confirmed sunk)
SS I-157 then sinks AVP Poolster near Singkawang.
SS I-122 sinks Dutch SS 020 near Billiton.
SS I-26 misses xAP Lurline near San Francisco. (9 hexes S.W. at hex 214,78)

SS Saury duds on xAK Kimishima near Cam Ranh Bay.
SS KXII duds on DMS W-2 near Kota Bharu. Receives a near miss hit in return.
SS KXI misses xAK Syoto Maru near Singora.


Naval Ops:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Hong Kong at 77,62, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Chokai
DD Fubuki
DD Usugumo
DD Shirayuki
DD Hatsuyuki

Allied Ships
MTB 7
MTB 8, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
MTB 9, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
MTB 10
MTB 11
MTB 12
MTB 26
MTB 27, Shell hits 1, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Legaspi at 84,82, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare

Allied Ships
xAK Si Kiang, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Legaspi at 82,82, Range 12,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare

Allied Ships
xAK Ethel Edwards, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Legaspi at 81,83, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Maya
DD Murasame
DD Harusame
DD Yudachi
DD Samidare

Allied Ships
xAKL Cetus, Shell hits 5, and is sunk

Two transports, xAK Hai Lee (near Iba) and xAP Candioa (near Balabac) are not engaged by Japanese SCTF's. [:-]


Air Ops:

Manila is swept by Zero's based from Takao. Tracker indicates six Zero's lost (4 A2A, 2 Ops) against 16 P-40E's (14 A2A, 2 Ops), 3 P-40B's (3 A2A), four P-26A's (3 A2A, 1 Ops) and four P-35A's (3 A2A, 1 Ops).

Japan 6 Allies 27

Ki-21-IIa Sally's (97) bomb ground forces at Alor Star. Casualties are light at 0(3) infantry and 0(10) non-combat squads disabled. (Severe storms)

Ground Ops:

Artillery bombardment at Hong Kong achieves little. AV comparison is 632 vs. 224 in Japan's favour. DA ordered for Dec. 11th.

The Celebes:

Talaud-eilanden invaded.

The Philippines:

Aparri invaded by 2nd Formosa Inf. Rgt. and 3rd Ind. Eng. Rgt.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

Jocke is doing a good job saving his valuable shipping. No tankers or naval support ships sunk, let alone spotted yet. A few Japanese SCTF's of CL's and DD's avoided engaging lone enemy transports, not sure what is up with that, but needless to say some Captains will be replaced immediately upon return to port. A few single transports were sunk by a small SCTF, but used up their long lance torpedoes. This bugs me when these valuable weapons are wasted on single transports. [:-]

I had a few bad captains on CAs in my first game and in the most recent run through with Torsten I replaced them immediately. It made a big difference. I was also frustrated by the over-use of ordnance against single targets and useless xAKLs traveling unescorted. Make sure you have the AKEs steaming for Babeldaob and Cam Ran Bay to replenish those ships quickly. Especially critical for the BBs. I think with a Naval HQ and an AKE at Babs you can get everything refilled.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: obvert

I had a few bad captains on CAs in my first game and in the most recent run through with Torsten I replaced them immediately. It made a big difference. I was also frustrated by the over-use of ordnance against single targets and useless xAKLs traveling unescorted. Make sure you have the AKEs steaming for Babeldaob and Cam Ran Bay to replenish those ships quickly. Especially critical for the BBs. I think with a Naval HQ and an AKE at Babs you can get everything refilled.

I plan on going over most of my naval officers soon, but unfortunately PP's are already at a premium. My first priority are garrison units to free up AV in China. I especially want the 21st Division freed up from Shanghai quickly. I will address this issue as ships return to port and replace the inept.

Naval HQ's and AKE's are already en route to Babeldoab. The Naval HQ at Samah will be airlifted to Cam Ranh Bay.

[SqzMyLemon]

Thanks for the thoughts on what you think is feasible under the Scenario 1 OOB concerning Australia. I'm going to prepare for both Australian and Indian objectives, and will decide on which best fits my overall strategy. Burma is a concern, but I may be putting too much emphasis on securing it by a push into India, because of my previous experience. Australia fits better with what I want to accomplish, and that is delay an Allied build up and secure the DEI from 4E attack. I'll keep the cards for a back door option in India up my sleeve, for now.

[MAurelius]

your AARs are always a good read - keep it up!

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: MAurelius

your AARs are always a good read - keep it up!

Thanks for the compliment and glad you enjoy them.

[SqzMyLemon]

I vowed I'd tone down any complaining this game, so I'll just explain what occurred that is bothering me.

The AI tends to do me no favours most times and this was another of them. KB was ordered East to be in position to strike enemy shipping en route to Pearl Harbor from San Francisco next turn. Didn't happen. Despite one patrol zone hex being set with a delay of 1 day and endurance remaining green after setting the movement, the AI overrode my orders and sent KB back towards Japan to refuel. Luckily, KB did not enter air search range from Midway and remains undetected, however it's now 16 hexes out of position. The replenishment TF which started from the same hex as KB moved as ordered. Are you telling me KB can't refuel prior to being ordered by the AI to return to port when a replenishment TF is in the same hex? Why did the AI overide my orders when every indication displayed a valid move? Sigh. [8|]

I've lost maybe three days now. Two to get back on station and a third to refuel. Meanwhile, the enemy TF I was tracking will have almost reached Pearl Harbor. I don't dare move too close to Hawaii and risk being spotted prior to locating the enemy TF. This really burns me about the AI in this game and it happens far too often.

The rest of the turn was the usual early war stuff. Fleeing ships from Singapore and the Philippines sunk from submarines and SCTF's. Aparri on Luzon is now Japanese. Talaud-eilanden is under Japanese control and the Ternate invasion force is unloading. Manado's will land at the dot base to the S.W. and march overland.

More to follow...

[ny59giants]

You need to change the homeport of KB to Kwajalein. [:-] I do this turn 1.

When playing Allies, I set multiple home ports between USA and Australia. Once the TF gets close to one, I change to another. Why?? To prevent the AI from constantly refueling my ships and slowing down an already long journey. It is going to take about a month, but I don't want to increase the time.

Set KB to follow the Replenishment TF. [;)]

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

You need to change the homeport of KB to Kwajalein. [:-] I do this turn 1.

When playing Allies, I set multiple home ports between USA and Australia. Once the TF gets close to one, I change to another. Why?? To prevent the AI from constantly refueling my ships and slowing down an already long journey. It is going to take about a month, but I don't want to increase the time.

Set KB to follow the Replenishment TF. [;)]

Actually, I shouldn't with all due respect Michael. The game indicated my move was within current endurance limits and green to indicate I'd still be able to reach the Home islands after completing my move. Now, if I had set my movement orders and the endurance changed to red, I'd know I'd need to change the home port to something closer to get it green again, or I'd risk pooched orders. This is exactly my point, the game indicated a valid move and the AI overrode it, it shouldn't and it continues to happen. I appreciate your suggestions as always and another lesson learned, but the player shouldn't be thwarted constantly by faulty AI when everything indicates a valid move. Anyway, the first Allied TF I encounter will bear the brunt of my wrath, not the people offering me ways of avoiding poor AI. [:D]

[ny59giants]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

You need to change the homeport of KB to Kwajalein. I do this turn 1.

When playing Allies, I set multiple home ports between USA and Australia. Once the TF gets close to one, I change to another. Why?? To prevent the AI from constantly refueling my ships and slowing down an already long journey. It is going to take about a month, but I don't want to increase the time.

Set KB to follow the Replenishment TF.

Actually, I shouldn't with all due respect Michael. The game indicated my move was within current endurance limits and green to indicate I'd still be able to reach the Home islands after completing my move. Now, if I had set my movement orders and the endurance changed to red, I'd know I'd need to change the home port to something closer to get it green again, or I'd risk pooched orders. This is exactly my point, the game indicated a valid move and the AI overrode it, it shouldn't and it continues to happen. I appreciate your suggestions as always and another lesson learned, but the player shouldn't be thwarted constantly by faulty AI when everything indicates a valid move. Anyway, the first Allied TF I encounter will bear the brunt of my wrath, not the people offering me ways of avoiding poor AI.[:D]

I agree with you that you "should" have been able to do the move you indicated. My suggestion is to minimize the AI doing things like it just did. Things like changing the home port to one closer is done to minimize the AI doing what it does. Its like setting your CVs 'not' to react (0) and they go towards the enemy CVs anyways. I try to minimize the AIs ability to take over when I don't want it to. [;)]

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

You need to change the homeport of KB to Kwajalein. I do this turn 1.

When playing Allies, I set multiple home ports between USA and Australia. Once the TF gets close to one, I change to another. Why?? To prevent the AI from constantly refueling my ships and slowing down an already long journey. It is going to take about a month, but I don't want to increase the time.

Set KB to follow the Replenishment TF.

Actually, I shouldn't with all due respect Michael. The game indicated my move was within current endurance limits and green to indicate I'd still be able to reach the Home islands after completing my move. Now, if I had set my movement orders and the endurance changed to red, I'd know I'd need to change the home port to something closer to get it green again, or I'd risk pooched orders. This is exactly my point, the game indicated a valid move and the AI overrode it, it shouldn't and it continues to happen. I appreciate your suggestions as always and another lesson learned, but the player shouldn't be thwarted constantly by faulty AI when everything indicates a valid move. Anyway, the first Allied TF I encounter will bear the brunt of my wrath, not the people offering me ways of avoiding poor AI.[:D]

I agree with you that you "should" have been able to do the move you indicated. My suggestion is to minimize the AI doing things like it just did. Things like changing the home port to one closer is done to minimize the AI doing what it does. Its like setting your CVs 'not' to react (0) and they go towards the enemy CVs anyways. I try to minimize the AIs ability to take over when I don't want it to. [;)]

I completely agree Michael, it's just in this case I didn't think there would be a problem. I routinely change home ports to ensure green status, especially if my intended orders change endurance to red, or to indicate a path of retreat or desired retirement route after a mission. I'd have been completely fine with KB losing movement to refuelling had it continued to move East. The fact that it immediately 180'd and headed back to Japan is why I'm Po'd. Like I said, I lost 16 hexes of movement and that's a real killer at a critical time. It's all good, I just got burnt...again.