Could Hosho operate Zero, B5N or Val's?

[Dili]

Before the lenghtning in 1944? it seems at Midway was with only B4 Jean.

[Shark7]

The problem was the size of the elevators, they simply were not big enough to handle the A6M, B5N or D3A.

I would assume in the role of a training carrier, the Hosho was able to land and launch those aircraft, just not take them below into the hangar.

[WO Katsuki]

a few things IJN could have done to their carrier fleet

1) put the 4 CS in the yard converting to CVL once war broke out (like they were supposed to, under the shadow plan, instead of laying down the 4 CL cruisers)

2) get Hiyo and Junyo up to spec with better engines so they could make about 28 knots and keep up with the rest of the fleet (even at the expense of some range / sorties / AC capacity, would have been worth it)

3) make Hosho a viable CVL with better speed and able to operate zeroes (kates or vals would be pretty hard.. )

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The problem was the size of the elevators, they simply were not big enough to handle the A6M, B5N or D3A.

I would assume in the role of a training carrier, the Hosho was able to land and launch those aircraft, just not take them below into the hangar.

This isn't a small item to address. Making a WAG here, I'll bet they looked at it hard and came away with a decision that it was undoable. Elevator shafts in a ship are designed around the fundamental structure.

[dr.hal]

Absolutely true PaxMondo, until they came up with the wing elevators. The wing elevators made a lot of things possible.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The problem was the size of the elevators, they simply were not big enough to handle the A6M, B5N or D3A.

I would assume in the role of a training carrier, the Hosho was able to land and launch those aircraft, just not take them below into the hangar.

This isn't a small item to address. Making a WAG here, I'll bet they looked at it hard and came away with a decision that it was undoable. Elevator shafts in a ship are designed around the fundamental structure.

Which explains why they did not even consider it until they became desperate. For training, where all you need to be able to do is land on it before taking off again (since the trainig aircraft launch and make final landing from a land base), then Hosho would still be a viable option.

Also, you have to consider that Hosho had very limited hangar space as well. It probably was not very efficient in an economical sense to upgrade it either.

[dr.hal]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: Shark7

The problem was the size of the elevators, they simply were not big enough to handle the A6M, B5N or D3A.

I would assume in the role of a training carrier, the Hosho was able to land and launch those aircraft, just not take them below into the hangar.

This isn't a small item to address. Making a WAG here, I'll bet they looked at it hard and came away with a decision that it was undoable. Elevator shafts in a ship are designed around the fundamental structure.

Which explains why they did not even consider it until they became desperate. For training, where all you need to be able to do is land on it before taking off again (since the trainig aircraft launch and make final landing from a land base), then Hosho would still be a viable option.

Also, you have to consider that Hosho had very limited hangar space as well. It probably was not very efficient in an economical sense to upgrade it either.

Hosho was Japan's Langley. It was a former oilier while Langley was a former collier. Both had similar dimensions and one small elevator within the flight-deck. One difference that was notable was that Hosho was a lot faster! 25 knots (on a good day) vs 14 knots (going downhill). This latter factor was the only reason she sailed with any element of the fleet unlike the Langley. She acted as the eyes of the 1st Fleet (the big guns!). As is suggested, any use of her beyond training was made out of some sort of desperation, because there is always a real need for a training CV (the USN keeps one all the time and at times has had more than that!).

[Dili]

Thanks everyone. Note that the extension of flight deck in 1944 made possible to operate more modern planes so i think the issue was the length or also the length and not the elevators.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Dili

Thanks everyone. Note that the extension of flight deck in 1944 made possible to operate more modern planes so i think the issue was the length or also the length and not the elevators.

Not aware that they were able to hangar the modern planes. You need to check if they were kept on deck. The longer deck allowed the heavier, higher stall speed planes the ability to get in the air ...

[AW1Steve]

Don't forget, the INJ was slow to adopt folding wings. The newer designs incorporated them . I don't know if that's a contributing factor, but I'd suggest it might be worth checking out. [:)]

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal
Hosho was Japan's Langley. It was a former oilier while Langley was a former collier.

Hosho was no conversion. She was the second aircraft carrier in history designed as such from the keel up. HMS Hermes was the first one - laid down earlier than Hosho, but commissioned later.

[geofflambert]

The way I play it, every CV is a training carrier. Early on you can squeeze a "carrier capable" unit on somewhere to train when there's not a battle going on. Also early on since the Brits can't come up with any WWII ready planes for their carriers, just think how nice they'd be training USN squadrons. When you do need to send them into battle, trained USN squadrons will do fine off their flight decks. Also, when the first CVE's arrive they provide trained squadrons which can be transferred anywhere and in small numbers they're mostly useless for anything other than training.

[WO Katsuki]

i am going to throw it out there that theoretically the hosho could operate the zero

A6M2 with folding wings had the same wingspan as a claude, and its take off and landing run were really small
(a lot smaller than any allied carrier planes except the swordfish)

kates with torpedoes would be out of the question probably

japan needed some type of training carrier (the USN had those two converted river steamers)
so they used hosho, but probably Taiyo could have done just as well

what is really amazing... usn was able to use avangers from those tiny and slow CVEs..

[geofflambert]

I forgot about those, they were in Lake Michigan and they were perfect for that. They had no hangar deck and really needed a tug to move around, but their flight decks were large. They were not sea worthy, but the Great Lakes can get amazingly, nay astoundingly rough. Remember the Edmond Fitzgerald.

[CV 2]

Jap CVEs can be very useful. Early war I use them to provide fighter cover and ASW search for my valuable convoys. Mid-war the ASW ability is even more important, esp in the South China Sea. They can also be useful in transporting aircraft into far away outposts. Aleutians, Palmyra, Diego Garcia as examples. There are a few other things I use them for that I would like to keep to myself

[WO Katsuki]

nah.. put the CVE together with the slow BB and use them as a dauntless magnet [X(] [8D]

while shokaku and zuikau go uncratched hopefully