Understanding Cargo/Your resources

[Bingeling]

My problem in the game is that I am not aggressive enough. I like to be attacked The other problem is that I tend to do quite well in a war. Which means that they attack only once. One problem with legends is the border system, which makes the AI less annoying (planting a colony in the mining system next to my capital was a good way to put me in war mode). I guess I will try be the scourge of the galaxy and happily pay attention to my war cabinet (AI). Boskara in a galaxy with no other insects...

I think I will try run the constructors on manual to get a better feel for resources. The AI does a good job, and that makes it easy to not pay much attention. You notice the problem only when it is glaringly obvious that the ship you are waiting on never finishes, or you notice a 30 ship construction queue when you want to build 2 more troop transports...

Starting with 1 colony and basic tech level is the point where I have done manual constructors as a survival mode. This because in that phase, pirates are a real annoyance. Ships have poor weapons, and long jump time, and mines tend to die before anyone can get there. This makes it beneficial to pick the mining systems carefully. A 40% steel source along side 2 other mines can be better than a 80% source half a sector away.

That being said, the pirate struggles on a 1 colony start with basic tech is so mighty fun that I am pretty sure I will start on "young" from now on.

[Deomrve]

This seems like a good place to ask this question. Let's say you build a defensive base over a colony and it has the capability to build ships. Does a base, not port, share cargo with the colony?

[twinkypillow]

Unfortunately because of this games "amazing manual" I am just going to guess that yes it does.. but then again the only way to know for sure is to start the "Game Editor" and make 2 custom star bases.. one with cargo.. one without cargo..

I guess test the base without cargo holds first and see whats in the cargo and see what you can do with it.. thats my best guess right now because the "amazing manual" of this game.. haha.

[Bingeling]

ORIGINAL: Deomrve

This seems like a good place to ask this question. Let's say you build a defensive base over a colony and it has the capability to build ships. Does a base, not port, share cargo with the colony?

Why would you build a defensive base with the ability to build ships? [&:]

I would be very surprised if it stores at the colony. The easy test is to look at the defensive base, space port, and colony, and see if they got the same cargo.

[Pipewrench]

anything that can be built on a colony can share in the colony's resources.

pumkinfacer22,

What most new players have to understand is that building anything in this game relies on the private sector who has a limited infrastructure.

With this in mind

if you modify mining bases into armed uber bases you will need more freighter runs to cover the increased supply that the colony gave to the constructors.
if you create larger designs for ships and military bases it again will require more freighter runs to build up the lost resources.
if you colonize too far out fuel and time will become factors when building anything.

Build bases one at a time so that freighters can concentrate on moving luxuries and building that base. Cut back on all other construction if possible so the private sector can catch up and manually direct constructors to build specific strategic resources close to new developments for the next build.

concentrate research in extraction , speed , cargo capacity and docking to speed things up.

There is nothing wrong with modifying anything, just keep in mind without increasing the response of your private sector can create backlogs.

[Bingeling]

Hm. So when a ship refuels at a defensive base, it is mostly a matter of finding a docking port to the colony resources?

[Deomrve]

Thanks for the answers, I'll have to test it out unless some other energetic individual beats me to it. My theory was that bases and ports were given different roles. Space ports are designed to be the commerce centers for colonies and would share with the colony. Starbases were for other purposes and self contained like ships and because bases could be built anywhere and that's why I figured bases don't share with colonies. I know that if you build a Starbase over a gas giant with gas extractors and try to make it become a major refueling station for my ships in fringe areas the construction ships don't recognize this as a gas mining station and want to build a gas mining station on the same planet. The ships seem to recognize it a a place to refuel, but will go to the gas station first then to the starbase. At least that's been my observation. So I create 2 gas station designs one large and one normal size.

[Pipewrench]

yes but the defensive base is without a commerce center.

There is no tax man now at that base and you can miss revenues if you build this design.

If you build it with a commerce center and a gas extractor you will have now ....drumroll....a uber gas mining station, but the cargo storage capacity will only be able to fill up small and medium stock freighter designs to full capacity. Add storage to feed more freighters.

Create two designs if you want. One for gas and one for mines and then manually build them in important areas if necessary. This way the private sector is not saddled with the maintenance cost and constructors will not auto build the new design and go broke.

[Bingeling]

I have not tested a lot, but I figure that the labels are not critical to functionality, but to what I think they are. Space ports could be special, though.

In my head:

A space port is the trading hub and construction yard above a planet. And where civilians goes to have "fun in space", because the coolest restaurant is at the very edge...

A defensive base is a gun platform around a space port. It is only there for protection.

A star base is for special needs. I use them as military supply points with a construction yard and extra defenses, a long range scanner, more docks, larger storage, lots of gas extractors for fuel. And more defenses than a gas mine. If I want some over the top gas mines, I prefer them to be state owned and pay for them myself. But they also have a commercial center to enable the civilians to pick up resources if they want to. I could build them if an area is really short on fuel sources, but typically I end up build them in gas clouds where pirates pop, and I get tired of having the pirate busters travel a long way back and forth for the kill.

[Pipewrench]

yes , it is a matter of semantics.
*edit labels are important with regards to autobuilding


Just like escort , frigate and destroyer. The AI can auto build due to role involved and if you add more functionality the AI still regards the old role as primary because you cannot remove the original default components.
*edit
to add: certain designs have limitations imposed so you can run into restrictions when you modify.

[twinkypillow]

There is nothing wrong with modifying anything, just keep in mind without increasing the response of your private sector can create backlogs.

well said. your post explains a lot actually and really helps for me. I play in a very odd style - I start with the hombase and I dont want other races living there at all and I dont want to colonize other style planets and races etc.. Check this out, my latest game i have like 6million bucks.. None other than 1 ... (yes 1) home human planet and am just not colonizing.. ha.. it works.. and the private sector is flying sky high in money as well.. (though i noticed with my own empire flag in the Cargo tabs : my "RSVD :is sometimes the same as "amount" and other empires flags with RSVD and Amount is the same (Amount:2000 Rsvd: 2000) *the other empire flag colors Im still not clear on why they are reserving and storing cargo in my base! ?

-lastly i should let it be known as I am a new player I play on easy settings.. (that probably explains the money being so high for private/state..)

dont worry ill bump up the difficulty settings soon enough.. right now every game i play i am slowly unchecking all the automation one by one and learning..

[Pipewrench]

stop ...... I put my foot in my mouth as they say![:D]

After getting in front of the game for 10 minutes I found that building a defensive base and adding features does not change what the AI thinks it is. It still is a defensive base according to the AI.

An example

Defensive base modified with

1 weapons,1 energy and 1 high tech plant
2 construction yards
1 commerce center
1 medical center
1 rec center
2 of each research facilities

Will not be recognized as a space port by the constructors, freighters or mining ships.

It will be recognized as a refueling point and to build ships as it uses the planets inventory.

Very sorry and deepest apologies. This can be reproduced by starting a new game ,scrapping the medium star-port and then building a modified defensive base at that colony. The constructor will not pick up supplies to perform a build.

[feelotraveller]

I believe Research Bases are also special.  From what I have seen other bases will not access research bonuses.  Certainly mining bases with labs built on bonus locations do not get the bonuses.  (Actually glad this is so.)
 
 

[Pipewrench]

pumkinfacer22,

"RSVD :is sometimes the same as "amount"

rsvd

that is because that empire(flag) has placed an order for that amount and that amount has been fully reserved. They are not storing cargo but picking up cargo or dropping off cargo.

colony

amnt : the amount on hand
rsvd : the need at the time to be delivered

any rsvd amount will call out to the freighter network to fill that need as soon as possible. If you do not know where a source is the need will not be filled. If you come across a new luxury your race did not know about they will want it once they get a shipment.


mining base

amnt : the amount on hand
rsvd : what the freighter network has booked to be picked up.

(sort by name of resource if need be and if you see a flag it means that another empire has paid for a shipment and is using its own freighters to pick up from that mining base or spaceport)


A good test for this is to start a game and as soon as you find the guardians spy to steal their territory map. When you have their map you will find that they hold some of the luxuries you need and your freighters will start running but your cash flow will suffer.

Again, your freighters will haul from other empires unless they are overloaded. If after sorting you see that the amount on hand is lower than what has been rsvd at the colony or base then that empire's freighter is bringing in a shipment and you have paid for it.

I hope this is clear enough.....[;)]

[twinkypillow]

Again, your freighters will haul from other empires unless they are overloaded. If after sorting you see that the amount on hand is lower than what has been rsvd at the colony or base then that empire's freighter is bringing in a shipment and you have paid for it.

ok so i may be a bit slow but am on track here with this?? I think I only learn by example...


situation 1:
A)*My Empire Flag : Ekarus Meat Amt:1708 Rsvd: 2660 - my colony needs to buy/use 2660 but i only have 1706

B)*Other empire flag : Ekarus Meat: Amt:138 Rsvd:138 - other empire is buying that from me..

Situation 2:

A)*my empire flag : jakanta ivory : Amt: 422 Rsvd : 0 - I have 422 in stock.. but my colony doesnt need it and nobody has reserved it..

B)*other empire flag : jKanata ivory : Amt : 310 Rsvd : 310 - other empire has booked and coming to get 310..


Situation 3 :

A) *my empire flag : Steel : Amt : 20,000 Rsvd : 20,495 - my colony needs to use 20495 but i only have 20,000 (so it will wait for more from me or buy from other empire?)

B) **(made this one up cause couldnt find example)Other Empire : Steel - Amt : 100 Rsvd : 200 - I'm buying from another empire 200?


man.. I really want to get this..

[Bingeling]

ORIGINAL: pumkinfacer22

situation 1:
A)*My Empire Flag : Ekarus Meat Amt:1708 Rsvd: 2660 - my colony needs to buy/use 2660 but i only have 1706

B)*Other empire flag : Ekarus Meat: Amt:138 Rsvd:138 - other empire is buying that from me..


Situation 2:

A)*my empire flag : jakanta ivory : Amt: 422 Rsvd : 0 - I have 422 in stock.. but my colony doesnt need it and nobody has reserved it..

B)*other empire flag : jKanata ivory : Amt : 310 Rsvd : 310 - other empire has booked and coming to get 310..


Situation 3 :

A) *my empire flag : Steel : Amt : 20,000 Rsvd : 20,495 - my colony needs to use 20495 but i only have 20,000 (so it will wait for more from me or buy from other empire?)

B) **(made this one up cause couldnt find example)Other Empire : Steel - Amt : 100 Rsvd : 200 - I'm buying from another empire 200?

1: I think that is a strange situation, but. Another empire is coming 138. I find it strange that a colony producing a luxury (I am quite sure this is the case here) suddenly have a shortage. Did you swap the numbers? It could be that colonies reserve an amount for consumption, but that should not be in the thousands. Large reserves are usually incoming freighters.

2: Correct. You have some spare items sitting around that noone has "claimed".

3: A: 495 steel is short. It could be in bound on a freighter right now. Or the colony could be a steel source, and it will be produced soon enough.

B: You would be short 100. That is exactly the same situation as in A. A "healthy" empire is not likely to import steel. It could happen if you for instance are in a clustered galaxy and have a remote colony near the colonies of other empires. But I don't think this happens as much after borders was introduced.

[feelotraveller]

ORIGINAL: pipewrench

Expecting a Galactic Financial Crisis any day now.

seen that done that.
The private sector needs to make money and hauling steel around constantly is not good for the bottom line. Luxuries have that and are a priority with new colonies.

Well Pipe, here are the first two of those freighters just starting on their return journeys. They ain't gonna be making much money for anyone...










Now I have no idea if this is working as intended but it seems all wrong to me. These freighters are making a 8 sector round journey to pick up 16 and 12 resources. The following six freighters are only picking up Terralion (I suspect that marks the point where my Tyderios/Vodkol/Terralion mine opened up) and I can't see them getting any more.

Either a) these freighters jumped all this way for a reservation of next to nothing, or b) they made a reservation for a larger amount which got stolen from under their noses. So, in my opinion of course, either the transport mission routine needs tweaking, or the reservations system needs tweaking.

You can see they spent about 150 fuel to get there, and if they had it they would spend another 150 on the way back.

p.s. The nightmare will continue for some time. At the time of the first screenshot I went through my freighters and 20 out of the 57 active (=fueled) are on transport Terralion orders. Some are going further to the Boskarans.

[Bingeling]

It is good entertainment to pay attention to those guys [:D]

I would really start to look for a nearby terralion source, but maybe they are hard to come by. How many luxuries are available from your sources? I don't know how those are prioritized, but do they struggle in getting the 10(?) they need?

[Pipewrench]

feelotraveller,

I have seen that as well. After a new luxury has been found and a mine set up or another empire is found to have that luxury, the freighter network will go all out to bring in supplies and yes it will run small shipments because of the limited extraction rate of that single source. I totally agree that the private sector should be tweaked to pick up only full orders and use that same freighter to distribute to the closest colony to cut down on 1/2 or 3/4 empty transports.

I have also have seen a new mine reserve a luxury to a close empire and reduce the supply to my freighters. Whether this is WAD or not is speculation. They might of designed this to slow down expansion or this could be an over site.

It is an inconvenience when freighters are forced into multiple runs to fill initial needs.

[Pipewrench]

pumkinfacer22,

Start a new game and manually order your constructors to build any mine but Casion and retire any Casion base and any gas mining ship. When you run into the ancient guardians, spy to find their home planet and discover their resources. Your freighters will start making runs. If any of those runs involve Casion retire that freighter. This will force a trade order because of the good terms you have with them and you can witness the transaction.

This is the fastest way to see what is happening as they will have to trade with your medium star port.