Phantom planes

Admiral Scott · Post by **Admiral Scott** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 11:06 am

I am getting my Navy F4F-4's reduced in size from 36 to 24!

Plus I have two SBD Squadrons come out of no where with 1 plane each in them, and if I transfer them they come back or they turn into level bombers with 0 aircraft. I have no control over them, they are phantom planes.
This is a PBEM game, and after a strange air attack to hex 0,0 from Cooktown, we went back a few turns and started over, thinking maybe the save game file was corrupt.
This may have all started from the LONG ISLAND BUG, when you try to use her in a combat air TF, instead of a transport TF.
I lost some TBD's using her that way.

Drongo · Post by **Drongo** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 12:01 pm

F4-F's? That would give you Phantom II aircraft to go with your phantom squadrons.

Regarding the F4F's.

I assume (with starting size 36) they came from the CVs.

I have found that size 30-36 F4F squadrons will reduce over time, down to size 24 while on land.

When you move them back to a CV, they will return to the full size.

Be very careful with leaving navy F4F squadrons on land after Jan '43. To my horror, I found out that they will start converting to F4U Corsairs. Can you imagine my disgust at losing my wonderful little Wildcats.

Regarding the SBD's.
Have you disbanded any previously? Were they remnants from a CV squadron? Are the aircraft in them at ready status or in repair etc? They may have been in the process of joining the rest of their squadron when you tried transferring them.

You should be able to tell a lot from their squadron designation. VF, VMF,etc? The squadron number (ie 221) might allow you to find the correct squadron to match them up with.

The bug you describe (turning into level bombers) has been around for a while and is normally indicative of them being squadron remnants.

If all else fails, leave them at Noumea and they may reattach or even grow to full size.

Admiral Scott · Post by **Admiral Scott** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 2:06 pm

They are remnants of two other squadrons, and I did transfer thier original squadrons. They never joined up I guess because thier original squadrons got new planes. But they wont join back up. If I transfer them to the same ship as thier sqaudrons are at, they turn into level bombers then go back to where they came from as that, but with no planes.

The 2 squadrons that went from 36 to 24 were on land a while, and were at 36 when I put them aboard. The next turn they changed to 24. I hope they change back soon. I need those 24 planes!

Drongo · Post by **Drongo** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 2:33 pm

Try bringing the SBD squadrons back to the same base as their remnants (if possible). I don't think it works the other way around.

The F4F situation sounds wierd. Were they placed back on their original CV or on a smaller ship. I've found when I transfer squadrons around with CVs, the squadrons adopt the size of their new CV's original squadron size (ie Wasp 30) for that type.

Other than that, good luck.

Admiral Scott · Post by **Admiral Scott** » Sun Jan 12, 2003 2:36 pm

Same size carrier, 90.

Hoplosternum · Post by **Hoplosternum** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 9:42 pm

Just resurrecting this one

I have this problem in one of my PBEM games. I have both 'empty' squadrons of level bombers on my CVs and their fighter wings shrinking from 36 to 24.

What happened was this -

My allied CVs were caught out in the open by a larger force of IJN CVs. After the mauling my Dauntless Squadrons received in the CV battle I decided to get them back to a land base along with the unused Devastators. I reckoned that if I was going to lose my CVs I would at least try and save some air groups. So my CVs now just had a full Wildcat squadron and a single fresh Dauntless Squadron a piece. Weather, 70% CAP and poor IJN co-ordination saved my CVs and the IJN broke off. I then flew back my squadrons once my CVs were close to the land base.

I made sure they flew back to the correct CV. VB-6 etc to Enterprise and VB-8 to Hornet. Everything seemed fine at that point. But remnants were left at the land base.

I hoped these would fly on automatically once repaired but a few days later they were still sitting on the land base (well in range) with pilots and no damaged or reserved planes. So I flew them to their correct carriers.

They appeared as ghost squadrons along side their parent squadron. A turn later I looked closely at them as they had not reunited as I thought they would. They were now totally empty (0 planes - damaged, OK or inn reserve and 0 pilots, but still having a fatigue and experience level!). They were also now 'flying' A-20B Boston's and were designated as fighter squadrons maximum size 24

Their squadron name is of the form VB-6/2 though. Then I noticed that my Wildcat squadrons had become maximum size 24 and 12 planes from each had been put in reserve

It looks like my CV configuration has changed to be like that of Bunker Hill in late June '42, but with one of my fighter squadrons flying 0 Boston's.....

Is there any way this will work itself out? I could send saves to Matrix, but if this will resolve itself by me moving into port for a few turns I can live with that. As its scenario #19 I cannot really afford to send them both to Pearl though.

Cheers

Wilhammer · Post by **Wilhammer** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:56 pm

I can report the same thing.

In the scen Aug42 to Dec31_1943.

(Man, I have posted a lot playing this one!)

Anyway, early on I was VERY aggressive with USN CVs, got 'em beat up, while wrecking the IJN (sank their CVs though), and so I withdrew them to Noumea. On the way, I dropped off all the airplanes to land bases.

Then withdrew my CVs to Pearl. I was without CVs until January '43. Not that this matters, really. The game is all about bases, not CVs.

So, when I use them, I notice the F4Fs won't get more than either 18 or 24 planes.

Carriers come back, I load up the decks, and still those F4Fs won't get beyond either 18 or 24 planes.

And yes, it is nothing but VF squadrons on board.

Now, I did use a very aggressive mode of operations, testing out shipping and land based plane effectiveness to the hilt. The result has been a bloddy war of attrition (with great success), so I was wondering if the loss rate in the theater was so high, it could not keep up with A/C replacements.

This is no the case, for about 1 week or so before the CVs Enterprise and Saratoga were to come back, I transferred all of of the "V" squadrons back to Noumea to freshen up before the CVs needed them.

Still, no recovery back to 36 planes.

Back at sea, the squadrons remain understrength.

However, I will play around more to see if it gets better. I maxed out my CVs in loads, by deploying other "V" squadrons to them not originally assigned to that ship. For example, V#-7 is all on one CV, but they also have one VB-28 DB on board.

Wilhammer · Post by **Wilhammer** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 10:57 pm

The ZERO remnant bug goes away when you leave an ACTF in a port for a turn.

It will NOT go away at sea.

Hoplosternum · Post by **Hoplosternum** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:01 pm

Cheers Wilhammer - I'll go and park them up ASAP. Hopefully my Fighters will sort themselves out....

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Mon Feb 03, 2003 11:21 pm

As the US player, when you park more than one fighter squadron on a carrier, the max size drops to 24. So your two 36 fighter squadrons will each put 12 planes in reserve and have just 24 fighter available, each. Don't know why this reconfiguration happens, but it always does.

The A-20, zero plane squadron is also a regular annoyance. Fortunately, it goes away. What doesn't ever seem to go away are those squadron remnants that are totally destroyed yet continue to show up a 0 plane squadrons on your carriers. Wish I knew how to get rid of those.