Aircraft Loads

[michaelm75au]

Lack of torpedo ordnance can cause the torpedo replacement code to fallback to the base replacement. Haven't got that to work properly at the moment as it is outside the normal mission weapon load changes. May need to "re-arrange" the order of checks.

Created an installer that corrects above.
tm.asp?m=3185062&mpage=4&key=&# Post 107

[axyarthur]

What about code for "city attack"? does it use a separate loadout from AF, Port, or Gnd? I try use filters from the editor and everything works except for City Attack. When I choose that option the group just won't fly the mission

[fodder]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The values against the weapon lines are:
G = ground attack
N = naval attack (main)
n = naval attack (alternate instead of torpedo)
P = port attack
A = airfield attack
W = ASW attack
Multiple values are possible by adding together the decimal values - AF and port = 32 +16 = 48 (= AP).

YAHOO we get ASW!!! Filter value 64 used for ASW.

Is there a limit on multiple values? Your example shows you useing two, but can you use three, four or five?

[Shark7]

I also wonder if there is a filter for aerial mines?

That would be an awesome way to limit what aircraft can carry out the mission.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: fodder

ORIGINAL: michaelm

The values against the weapon lines are:
G = ground attack
N = naval attack (main)
n = naval attack (alternate instead of torpedo)
P = port attack
A = airfield attack
W = ASW attack
Multiple values are possible by adding together the decimal values - AF and port = 32 +16 = 48 (= AP).

YAHOO we get ASW!!! Filter value 64 used for ASW.

Is there a limit on multiple values? Your example shows you useing two, but can you use three, four or five?

Notice that each value is 2x the value before. Copied from multiple post above (hopefully got it right):

Filter values are:
2 - used for naval attacks ("N")
4 - alternate for naval attack (like torp replacement) ("n")
8 - used for land (ground) attack ("G")
16 - used for port attack ("P")
32 - used for AF attack ("A")
64 - used for ASW attacks ("W")

So for example...
N (naval attacks) + n(alternate naval like torp replacement) + G (ground attacks) would be:
2 + 4 + 8 = 14 Notice that 14 does NOT collide with the next greater value, 16. If you added 16 then the total would be 30, which does NOT collide with the next greater value, 32.

I'm not sure why Michael skipped using "1", but if he were using it the result would be the same (15 does not collide with 16, 31 does not collide with 32, and so on).

I suppose there might be some checks elsewhere in the code that would rule out some weapons for some attacks, but the filters themselves can always be stacked by their nature.

[inqistor]

ORIGINAL: michaelm

Lack of torpedo ordnance can cause the torpedo replacement code to fallback to the base replacement. Haven't got that to work properly at the moment as it is outside the normal mission weapon load changes. May need to "re-arrange" the order of checks.

Created an installer that corrects above.
tm.asp?m=3185062&mpage=4&key=&# Post 107

YES!
THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR!

However...
How to set port attacks? Lets take BETTY for example:

I want it to use torpedo, during port attack, code will sometimes exchange it to 800 kg bomb, and sometimes to normal load, which is defined as...? I actually want the exchange for torpedo to be 4x250kg bombs, but I do not see how to get rid of hardcoded 2x250kg+4x60kg in port attack. Actually, torpedo filtered for 18 is exchanged for alternate port bombload 100% of time.

[Dili]

thx fodder

[LargeSlowTarget]

Anyone willing to share data or a modded WITPairxxx.csv with poor souls like me who have little time to spare for their own research and little knowledge about things that can fly to start with...?

[US87891]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Anyone willing to share data or a modded WITPairxxx.csv with poor souls like me who have little time to spare for their own research and little knowledge about things that can fly to start with...?

Data for what kind of planes and for what year(s)? Alternative loads (both kinds) have been in the editor since the beginning and there’s gobs and gobs of alternative loads in private mods floating around but they are have different ideas about what is good.

I know Treespider is looking at level bombers. Jeremy’s people have been playing with adaptive ground support for a year or two. (Heh, you should see what the Marines think is a decent loadout for their CSFBs on their Commencement Bay carriers !!!!) Lots of alternatives change almost year by year for many planes. And other groups have other ideas about what to do and when to do it and who to do it to so there’s a dozen or so viable alternatives out there.

If you could give an idea about what you want to accomplish I’m sure there’s somebody with just the ticket. The alternative (pun, pun) is you’ll get swamped by all the alternative alternatives [:D]

[oldman45]

I will throw this out there. Device 1875 20lb GP bomb would make a good candidate for faux para frag. A B-25C modified straffer could carry 60 "para-frags" and 4 100lb bombs. My guess is code the 20lb bombs as 32 for AF attack along with a line for the 100lb bombs. My question is would it be dropped as a block of 60 or does that cause issues for the game engine? Is there a better way to do it?

Sorry I keep bringing them up but I really want them in my mod but I don't want to break things.

[Shark7]

This also begs the question, can a Depth Charge device now be used with code 64 on the ASW mission. One that certianly comes to mind is the Ka-1 which did carry DCs.

[btbw]

OT: Can Nell got MAD also? It was very successfull sub hunter in real life.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: btbw

OT: Can Nell got MAD also? It was very successfull sub hunter in real life.

G3M3 Nell has H-6 Radar and the editor is always available to add MAD too.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

This also begs the question, can a Depth Charge device now be used with code 64 on the ASW mission. One that certainly comes to mind is the Ka-1 which did carry DCs.

I guess that would be why I was asked to add ASW as a filter.

Just noticed that it does not show any ASW device types on aircraft screens. Uses the weapon for combat but not showing is had to tell if it has one. I'll add that to the next beta.

[LargeSlowTarget]

ORIGINAL: US87891

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Anyone willing to share data or a modded WITPairxxx.csv with poor souls like me who have little time to spare for their own research and little knowledge about things that can fly to start with...?

Data for what kind of planes and for what year(s)? Alternative loads (both kinds) have been in the editor since the beginning and there’s gobs and gobs of alternative loads in private mods floating around but they are have different ideas about what is good.

I know Treespider is looking at level bombers. Jeremy’s people have been playing with adaptive ground support for a year or two. (Heh, you should see what the Marines think is a decent loadout for their CSFBs on their Commencement Bay carriers !!!!) Lots of alternatives change almost year by year for many planes. And other groups have other ideas about what to do and when to do it and who to do it to so there’s a dozen or so viable alternatives out there.

If you could give an idea about what you want to accomplish I’m sure there’s somebody with just the ticket. The alternative (pun, pun) is you’ll get swamped by all the alternative alternatives [:D]

1. I mean data for typical payloads for the different missions of each aircraft, i.e. Betty: AP=4x500lb GP, N=4x500lb AP, n=torp, G=8x100lb GP (random figures just for ex.) etc.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I have checked mods in this subforum, including latest DBB, RA 4.6, Nikademus GC May42, (Almost)HistoricalMod, Treespider - none of them uses filters and mission-specific payloads. Can you point me to those private mods which use them?


2. Clarification question: Can I define different bombloads for the same mission, e.g. G=4x250lb GP and G=10x100lb GP - will this work and if so, how will the engine decide which payload to use?

3. Clarification question: the toggle "use torps" will force use of torps - if available - regardless of whether torps are set as 02 or 04? Stupid question, just to be sure...

3. When bombs are set to naval attack 02, search missions no longer have bombs > no "search-strikes" anymore with the chance of attacking targets of opportunity during search missions [:(]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

This also begs the question, can a Depth Charge device now be used with code 64 on the ASW mission.

LOL - first thing I experimented with after learning about those filters [:)]

[michaelm75au]

2. Clarification question: Can I define different bombloads for the same mission, e.g. G=4x250lb GP and G=10x100lb GP - will this work and if so, how will the engine decide which payload to use?

No. If you did define multiple slots with same filter, they all would be included if matched the mission. Not sure about naval where there is an alternate load???

3. Clarification question: the toggle "use torps" will force use of torps - if available - regardless of whether torps are set as 02 or 04? Stupid question, just to be sure...

Yes. Torpedo should be type 02 and bomb equivalent as 04. But it should handle the other way. Was designed as a torpedo replacement, though.

3. When bombs are set to naval attack 02, search missions no longer have bombs > no "search-strikes" anymore with the chance of attacking targets of opportunity during search missions [:(]

They should carry the extended bomb load as if a naval attack mission. Search and ASW only use the weapon list from the Extended side of the a/c table.

I am tweaking some of the filters in the code at the moment, as slots with multiple values seem to lose this value sometimes.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

ORIGINAL: US87891

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

Anyone willing to share data or a modded WITPairxxx.csv with poor souls like me who have little time to spare for their own research and little knowledge about things that can fly to start with...?

Data for what kind of planes and for what year(s)? Alternative loads (both kinds) have been in the editor since the beginning and there’s gobs and gobs of alternative loads in private mods floating around but they are have different ideas about what is good.

I know Treespider is looking at level bombers. Jeremy’s people have been playing with adaptive ground support for a year or two. (Heh, you should see what the Marines think is a decent loadout for their CSFBs on their Commencement Bay carriers !!!!) Lots of alternatives change almost year by year for many planes. And other groups have other ideas about what to do and when to do it and who to do it to so there’s a dozen or so viable alternatives out there.

If you could give an idea about what you want to accomplish I’m sure there’s somebody with just the ticket. The alternative (pun, pun) is you’ll get swamped by all the alternative alternatives [:D]

1. I mean data for typical payloads for the different missions of each aircraft, i.e. Betty: AP=4x500lb GP, N=4x500lb AP, n=torp, G=8x100lb GP (random figures just for ex.) etc.

I do not believe there is a central "database" that has that information. In doing research the scenario designer has to make a best guesstimate as to what the standard load for a typical mission would be based on the available bomb types. The Command at Sea System Data Annexes provides a list of "typical" bombloads but makes no reference to mission.

Maybe I misunderstood, but I have checked mods in this subforum, including latest DBB, RA 4.6, Nikademus GC May42, (Almost)HistoricalMod, Treespider - none of them uses filters and mission-specific payloads. Can you point me to those private mods which use them?

I do not believe there are any mods CURRENTLY available to the public that incorporate the filters or altDevice/altUse mechanisms. I have been doing some testing of the filters and use of "bomb sticks" that I plan on incorporating in my mod.

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

I will throw this out there. Device 1875 20lb GP bomb would make a good candidate for faux para frag. A B-25C modified straffer could carry 60 "para-frags" and 4 100lb bombs. My guess is code the 20lb bombs as 32 for AF attack along with a line for the 100lb bombs. My question is would it be dropped as a block of 60 or does that cause issues for the game engine? Is there a better way to do it?

Sorry I keep bringing them up but I really want them in my mod but I don't want to break things.

In doing some testing I have found like much of the rest of the system the issue comes with how many devices are involved. As to runway hits (assuming two devices with the same accuracy) - "Effect" appears not to play a factor and the damage inflicted seems to be directly related to the number of devices and not the effect.

So 60 para frags with an effect of 1 are just as effective as 60 x 500 lb bombs with and effect of 500...when it comes to Runway attacks....if their accuracy values were equal.

That's why I am toying around with "Bomb Sticks" - a single device that may represent multiple bombs. So your B-25C may only carry 4 devices each representing 15 para frag bombs.

The other issue you have with para bombs is that they were released at very low altitude... you may want to run some tests to determine the effect of accuracy & altitude.

[n01487477]

ORIGINAL: treespider

ORIGINAL: oldman45

I will throw this out there. Device 1875 20lb GP bomb would make a good candidate for faux para frag. A B-25C modified straffer could carry 60 "para-frags" and 4 100lb bombs. My guess is code the 20lb bombs as 32 for AF attack along with a line for the 100lb bombs. My question is would it be dropped as a block of 60 or does that cause issues for the game engine? Is there a better way to do it?

Sorry I keep bringing them up but I really want them in my mod but I don't want to break things.

In doing some testing I have found like much of the rest of the system the issue comes with how many devices are involved. As to runway hits (assuming two devices with the same accuracy) - "Effect" appears not to play a factor and the damage inflicted seems to be directly related to the number of devices and not the effect.

So 60 para frags with an effect of 1 are just as effective as 60 x 500 lb bombs with and effect of 500...when it comes to Runway attacks....if their accuracy values were equal.

That's why I am toying around with "Bomb Sticks" - a single device that may represent multiple bombs. So your B-25C may only carry 4 devices each representing 15 para frag bombs.

The other issue you have with para bombs is that they were released at very low altitude... you may want to run some tests to determine the effect of accuracy & altitude.

Exactly the way that Nemo121 had in his armageddon mod ... I have a game file if you want to have a look. But not the scenario files as he didn't release it and alas has left the forum

[michaelm75au]

I have updated the beta installer (1118c) to address some issues with displaying the filtered a/c weapon list, and handling multiple filters together (was wiping out the filter on first incorrect weapon choice).