Moving res/oil from N China

[Chris21wen]

I've captures Urumchi but the res/oil do not seem to be moving anywhere let alone to the coast for pickup back to Japan. No rail but a road which is clear of any allied units. Any suggestions?

Also, will res/oil move from China to Manchukuo e.g. Port Arthur which is the largest port/base in the area.

[GreyJoy]

As far as my limited experience goes, fuel moves, but not that far. Same goes for the myth that says that fuel hauled in Singapore ca run all the way to Port Arthur is the road is clear from enemy units... it doesn't.
I am not 100% positive, but i haven't read a single post saying "Yes, it happens in my game"

[Puhis]

I believe Urumchi is too far away, so oil is stuck there.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I believe Urumchi is too far away, so oil is stuck there.

If that is the case it's pointless putting and oil/resorces there. I go as far as saying it's pointless putting any oil/res in any base similar to Urumchi if the base is only connect by road. Purhaps another reason for being able to build a railway after all both sides did. Not going to happen I know that but still...

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I believe Urumchi is too far away, so oil is stuck there.

If that is the case it's pointless putting and oil/resorces there. I go as far as saying it's pointless putting any oil/res in any base similar to Urumchi if the base is only connect by road. Purhaps another reason for being able to build a railway after all both sides did. Not going to happen I know that but still...

Is it pointless for allies too, or just pointless for Japan?

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

As far as my limited experience goes, fuel moves, but not that far. Same goes for the myth that says that fuel hauled in Singapore ca run all the way to Port Arthur is the road is clear from enemy units... it doesn't.
I am not 100% positive, but i haven't read a single post saying "Yes, it happens in my game"

Pax swears it happens for him from Singapore, but I tried everything and it sure didn't for me! I can barely get it to go to Saigon when I want to.

No luck getting it from Urumchi either for me. The only reason to take this base is to wrest it away as a training center for the Chinese air force.

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: Puhis

I believe Urumchi is too far away, so oil is stuck there.

If that is the case it's pointless putting and oil/resorces there. I go as far as saying it's pointless putting any oil/res in any base similar to Urumchi if the base is only connect by road. Purhaps another reason for being able to build a railway after all both sides did. Not going to happen I know that but still...

Is it pointless for allies too, or just pointless for Japan?

Pointless in the game

[Numdydar]

Everything moves in the game, supplies, oil, etc. It all depends on the capacities of the transport system. The latest patch has a supply range hot key (CRS which one it is) that will bring up a supply overlay on the map and show what percentage of 'stuff' can move each turn. In the majority it is not much lol.

So lets say you have 100 oil somewhere. the next nearest base has a value of 50% showing on the supply overlay. these means that if ALL you had at the base was oil then 50 oil will move to that base. If you have a mix of fuel, oil, supplies, then only 50% of that total will move. so if you have 20K supplies, 100 oil and 1,00 fuel, the mass majority of what will move will be supplies. Due to the extreamly small amount of oil at the base no oil will move so it appears as if nothing is happening. If the overlay said that the nearest base only gets 10% from the supplying base due to distance/terrian then even less of everything will move. So even if the base had 100 oil and nothing else then only 10 oil would move.

To make matters even more complex, the target base has to have a 'need' for the supplies/oil/fuel in order to 'request' this stuff to be 'sent' to it. If there is no draw for oil/fuel then it will never move. The one thing a player can do is 'create' a draw for what you want to move (as if the game is not already complex enough lol)
- For supplies - increase the amount of supply you want that base to have by manuamly increasing the suppy need on the base screen. To make sure that this supply buildup does not get pulled away by yet another base, you can toggle Yes to Stockplie supplies. Also on the base screen.
- For oil/fuel- There are two ways to do this. One is simply go to a port you want oil/fuel to come to and start requesting to load it. Eventually they will start showing up as you just created a 'need' for those items to be there. The second is turn on Stockpile. This is 'supposed' to tell other bases that you want these items to come to taht base. I have no idea if this works or not. The main reason I turn on Stockpile is to prevent things from moving away [:)] However, it does seem like this should work as in RL. If I was telling a Base to stockpile stuff, that base would be requesting other surrounding bases to supply what excess that had. So it should create then 'need' require by the game to move stuff.

Of course all of this is with the latest patch so if you are not using that then none of the above will work as described.

While what I have laid out may not be the real way it does work, from what I have experienced in the game and read in the supply thread (which I can't seem to find now either lol) this should be close. Regardless, I can definately confirm that everything does move as long a 1) the transportation is available and b) a 'need' exists at the destination base. If either of these are lacking, nothing will move. As in 99% of the map, there is no need and/or the transportation grid sucks it nothing will move.

I have an inland base in China as an example that is constantly oos. Even though there is a definate need for supplies, the amount of supplies that can actuall get there by road is less than 5%. Obviously the only way to help out with this is to use TR and LB to transport supplies by air. But as these planes always seem to find other things to do that are more important, it just stays oos [:(] I just tell the commander to take what he needs from the locals and we will pay them back once we have won this war against the Imperialistic Allies [X(]

[Chris21wen]

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Everything moves in the game, supplies, oil, etc. It all depends on the capacities of the transport system. The latest patch has a supply range hot key (CRS which one it is) that will bring up a supply overlay on the map and show what percentage of 'stuff' can move each turn. In the majority it is not much lol.

So lets say you have 100 oil somewhere. the next nearest base has a value of 50% showing on the supply overlay. these means that if ALL you had at the base was oil then 50 oil will move to that base. If you have a mix of fuel, oil, supplies, then only 50% of that total will move. so if you have 20K supplies, 100 oil and 1,00 fuel, the mass majority of what will move will be supplies. Due to the extreamly small amount of oil at the base no oil will move so it appears as if nothing is happening. If the overlay said that the nearest base only gets 10% from the supplying base due to distance/terrian then even less of everything will move. So even if the base had 100 oil and nothing else then only 10 oil would move.

To make matters even more complex, the target base has to have a 'need' for the supplies/oil/fuel in order to 'request' this stuff to be 'sent' to it. If there is no draw for oil/fuel then it will never move. The one thing a player can do is 'create' a draw for what you want to move (as if the game is not already complex enough lol)
- For supplies - increase the amount of supply you want that base to have by manuamly increasing the suppy need on the base screen. To make sure that this supply buildup does not get pulled away by yet another base, you can toggle Yes to Stockplie supplies. Also on the base screen.
- For oil/fuel- There are two ways to do this. One is simply go to a port you want oil/fuel to come to and start requesting to load it. Eventually they will start showing up as you just created a 'need' for those items to be there. The second is turn on Stockpile. This is 'supposed' to tell other bases that you want these items to come to taht base. I have no idea if this works or not. The main reason I turn on Stockpile is to prevent things from moving away [:)] However, it does seem like this should work as in RL. If I was telling a Base to stockpile stuff, that base would be requesting other surrounding bases to supply what excess that had. So it should create then 'need' require by the game to move stuff.

Of course all of this is with the latest patch so if you are not using that then none of the above will work as described.

While what I have laid out may not be the real way it does work, from what I have experienced in the game and read in the supply thread (which I can't seem to find now either lol) this should be close. Regardless, I can definately confirm that everything does move as long a 1) the transportation is available and b) a 'need' exists at the destination base. If either of these are lacking, nothing will move. As in 99% of the map, there is no need and/or the transportation grid sucks it nothing will move.

I have an inland base in China as an example that is constantly oos. Even though there is a definate need for supplies, the amount of supplies that can actuall get there by road is less than 5%. Obviously the only way to help out with this is to use TR and LB to transport supplies by air. But as these planes always seem to find other things to do that are more important, it just stays oos [:(] I just tell the commander to take what he needs from the locals and we will pay them back once we have won this war against the Imperialistic Allies [X(]

I'm playing the very latest patch and seen nothing about that unless you are talking about the 5 key which I though was only supply. Now if that is the case and sticking a TK or Cargo TF in the nearest port (Teintsin) to Urumchi then it's only getting 3% of the oil/res based there.

I can understand the supply/fuel being reduced between to points, representing the logistics required to transport it but not raw materials. I can understand raw materials being syphoned off by bases between and nearby if those bases are short However there is only two bases like that Peiping and Teintsin.

So is it pointless in game terms to put res/oil such a long way from a port?

[CyrusSpitama]

While I am far from an expert, one technique I have learned via experimentation is this:

Base C needs supplies/res/oil/fuel

Base A has what I need but it is too far to practically supply base C

Set Base B, which is between Base A and Base B, to stockpile the needed items. Periodically turn off the stockpiling here and watch the items flow to bases further back. Also note, you may need to reduce your supply request at this base as well, depending on your needs.



This is not a perfect system but, it has helped me supply continually oos bases with enough supplies so that the troops are not constantly on the edge of starvation. Best results seem to be based on developing airfields EARLY on key bases that will serve as mid-points in my supply chain. I have no other known methods of supplying these bases. Feel free to share

The other aspect mentioned above is creating a NEED to ship these things from these far reaching bases. This need creation SHOULD help move some of these things from deep inland.


P.S. Be VERY cautious you are not overusing the stockpile command. As a previous poster stated above, my primary usage is for preventing items from leaving the base, I am looking RIGHT at you Bangkok, and for the intermediate transfer of items to deep inland bases.

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: Chris H

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Everything moves in the game, supplies, oil, etc. It all depends on the capacities of the transport system. The latest patch has a supply range hot key (CRS which one it is) that will bring up a supply overlay on the map and show what percentage of 'stuff' can move each turn. In the majority it is not much lol.

So lets say you have 100 oil somewhere. the next nearest base has a value of 50% showing on the supply overlay. these means that if ALL you had at the base was oil then 50 oil will move to that base. If you have a mix of fuel, oil, supplies, then only 50% of that total will move. so if you have 20K supplies, 100 oil and 1,00 fuel, the mass majority of what will move will be supplies. Due to the extreamly small amount of oil at the base no oil will move so it appears as if nothing is happening. If the overlay said that the nearest base only gets 10% from the supplying base due to distance/terrian then even less of everything will move. So even if the base had 100 oil and nothing else then only 10 oil would move.

To make matters even more complex, the target base has to have a 'need' for the supplies/oil/fuel in order to 'request' this stuff to be 'sent' to it. If there is no draw for oil/fuel then it will never move. The one thing a player can do is 'create' a draw for what you want to move (as if the game is not already complex enough lol)
- For supplies - increase the amount of supply you want that base to have by manuamly increasing the suppy need on the base screen. To make sure that this supply buildup does not get pulled away by yet another base, you can toggle Yes to Stockplie supplies. Also on the base screen.
- For oil/fuel- There are two ways to do this. One is simply go to a port you want oil/fuel to come to and start requesting to load it. Eventually they will start showing up as you just created a 'need' for those items to be there. The second is turn on Stockpile. This is 'supposed' to tell other bases that you want these items to come to taht base. I have no idea if this works or not. The main reason I turn on Stockpile is to prevent things from moving away [:)] However, it does seem like this should work as in RL. If I was telling a Base to stockpile stuff, that base would be requesting other surrounding bases to supply what excess that had. So it should create then 'need' require by the game to move stuff.

Of course all of this is with the latest patch so if you are not using that then none of the above will work as described.

While what I have laid out may not be the real way it does work, from what I have experienced in the game and read in the supply thread (which I can't seem to find now either lol) this should be close. Regardless, I can definately confirm that everything does move as long a 1) the transportation is available and b) a 'need' exists at the destination base. If either of these are lacking, nothing will move. As in 99% of the map, there is no need and/or the transportation grid sucks it nothing will move.

I have an inland base in China as an example that is constantly oos. Even though there is a definate need for supplies, the amount of supplies that can actuall get there by road is less than 5%. Obviously the only way to help out with this is to use TR and LB to transport supplies by air. But as these planes always seem to find other things to do that are more important, it just stays oos [:(] I just tell the commander to take what he needs from the locals and we will pay them back once we have won this war against the Imperialistic Allies [X(]

I'm playing the very latest patch and seen nothing about that unless you are talking about the 5 key which I though was only supply. Now if that is the case and sticking a TK or Cargo TF in the nearest port (Teintsin) to Urumchi then it's only getting 3% of the oil/res based there.

I can understand the supply/fuel being reduced between to points, representing the logistics required to transport it but not raw materials. I can understand raw materials being syphoned off by bases between and nearby if those bases are short However there is only two bases like that Peiping and Teintsin.

So is it pointless in game terms to put res/oil such a long way from a port?

No. Because it will eventually move. remember each turn is a DAY. So do not expect huge number changes turn to turn. I mean how far could a ton of coal move over the backroads on China in the '40's? 10 miles? 20miles? As each hex is 45 miles across your are talking maybe a week to move one or two hexes. If you want to see the movement, track it over a month from base to base and see what the results will be.

But again no need, no movement. So stick a TF that wants to load oil in the nearest port to that location and leave it there for a month. The oil will eventually start showing up there at some point. Of course WHERE the oil is moving from is anyones guess[&:]

[Chris21wen]

No. Because it will eventually move. remember each turn is a DAY. So do not expect huge number changes turn to turn. I mean how far could a ton of coal move over the backroads on China in the '40's? 10 miles? 20miles? As each hex is 45 miles across your are talking maybe a week to move one or two hexes. If you want to see the movement, track it over a month from base to base and see what the results will be.

But again no need, no movement. So stick a TF that wants to load oil in the nearest port to that location and leave it there for a month. The oil will eventually start showing up there at some point. Of course WHERE the oil is moving from is anyones guess[&:]

For some reason I saw the supply/fuel being used in the transporting which is what should happen. In the game stuff moves from one base to the next in a day not one hex in a day so this lag has been simulated by the reduced percentage arriving at the destination. Given enough transport to send stuff every day a steady stream would eventually be received at the destination. I couldn't imagine China having this infrastructure to reach this level so in game terms from Uramchi to Tienshin it's only 3% per day.

So my original question has been answered, it moves but very very slowly. The amount moved still makes me think it's pointless putting any there.

There is another problem with the system. If the Port you send your TF to has no use for or doesn't produce res/oil then them sending a TF to pick them doesn't always work. Without any oil/res you cannot tell the TF to load it, the option is greyed out. Perhaps it should be, that way you could set the TF to load and force the stuff to be sent to the port.

[nashvillen]

In a game I have going as Japan I have a clear line from Singapore to Fusan. Fusan is built up to max and so is Keijo. I am working on the rest of the large ports in Korea to help with the draw. There is a clear movement of Oil, Fuel, and Resources from areas of production to these ports as I fill ships on a regular basis for transport to Japan from there. Uramchi, before the latest patch was full of Oil and not producing any more due to this. Now it is on a regular basis less than full. The oil must be going somewhere.

My esteemed opponent reads these boards and will see this but I have the area blanketed by ASW, Mines, and Nav Searches. I am pretty sure he has lost several subs trying to break this, but it is covered well. I believe he is frustrated that he doesn't find any large convoy's moving around anymore.

[Lokasenna]

Also, I believe it helps draw fuel if you set the home port for such convoys as the hub in question (Fusan, Hong Kong, wherever), as that will raise the fuel requirement of the base...right? Which helps make sure that the fuel goes there and not somewhere else that doesn't need it.

[Numdydar]

Yes. Setting a base as Home Port will increase the 'need' of that base so fuel will start to move there based on the number of ships assigned to that base. Just do not expect the fuel to show up over night lol.

[CyrusSpitama]

I use Shanghai early on as a pickup point for a number of things. Without having to stockpile anything, the fuel and oil seem to flow here without trouble. Making Shanghai the home port for a number of tanker fleets certainly seems to help with this game function. The resources flow here nicely, but they also seem to want to pile up at Hong Kong. I do find myself having to occasionally turn on resource stockpiling for a week or three. Once Fusan has built up, Shanghai barely pools anything but fuel and only because I keep it stockpiling there.

[helldiver]

This is all most interesting. It appears as well in my game as Japan, the stuff does flow but very slowly and with the help of "need" and setting home ports as mentioned. So, Numdydar's reminder about the fact that a turn is usually one day is most useful. When I get caught up in the complexity of trying to run the IJ war economy, sometimes my frustration is due to the fact that I forget that very thing: it's one day at a time. This very modern expectation that everything should be "right now" manifests itself as well when I get a bit frantic and sloppy about trying to get my forces where I want doing what I want when I want. Then, suddenly, I look up at "game time" and realize it's only the third week of the war. e.g.

Regards to all,
Helldiver

[CyrusSpitama]

Helldiver- "This very modern expectation that everything should be "right now" manifests itself as well when I get a bit frantic and sloppy about trying to get my forces where I want doing what I want when I want"

Haha- I have to remind myself of this constantly when I see there is not enough supplies at my 'supply port' even though I have a fleet, or maybe several, ready to go to move supplies to the front line bases. "Oh yeah, I just finished loading three other supply fleets." [8D]

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: nashvillen

In a game I have going as Japan I have a clear line from Singapore to Fusan. Fusan is built up to max and so is Keijo. I am working on the rest of the large ports in Korea to help with the draw. There is a clear movement of Oil, Fuel, and Resources from areas of production to these ports as I fill ships on a regular basis for transport to Japan from there. Uramchi, before the latest patch was full of Oil and not producing any more due to this. Now it is on a regular basis less than full. The oil must be going somewhere.

My esteemed opponent reads these boards and will see this but I have the area blanketed by ASW, Mines, and Nav Searches. I am pretty sure he has lost several subs trying to break this, but it is covered well. I believe he is frustrated that he doesn't find any large convoy's moving around anymore.

+1

Urumchi oil moves, but really slowly ... from the "5" key it seems to help to build up some of the intermediary bases a bit. Still, movement is slow.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

As far as my limited experience goes, fuel moves, but not that far. Same goes for the myth that says that fuel hauled in Singapore ca run all the way to Port Arthur is the road is clear from enemy units... it doesn't.
I am not 100% positive, but i haven't read a single post saying "Yes, it happens in my game"

Sorry, it can and does. Many people do it. No one has suggested that it is easy or that it happens overnight. You have to understand the alogrithm and be very careful in making sure that you are using it to your advantage. Tedious? yes. Beneficial? Oh, yeah.

PS: See Nash's post above for someone who does it. There are quite a few others as well.