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[warspite1]

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

Yes yes....I can picture it now.

Warspite: Suck on this Empire ( rolls 4 sixes )

Empire:- No..Noooo....NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! ( Yamato is sunk....Empire presses the eject button on his chair and is catapulted into the nearest heap of discarded 3rd Reich games )

Even now I can hear the screaming........

[warspite1]

HMS Warspite opens the ball with a 15-inch broadside

[warspite1]

Prior to his ejector seat shenanigans, Empire looks on in disbelief as his Flagship disappears

[warspite1]

Warspite1, who has dressed up in his usual World In Flames attire, celebrates his victory

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

What makes WiF shine in you guys' opinion? What has been its secret of longevity especially compared to the obscure A3R?

mo reb

warspite1

Mo Reb I never played Advanced 3rd Reich (although did try 3rd Reich). In my opinion, 3rd Reich and WIF simply do not compare.

There are a number of reasons for WIF being simply the best game ever.

1. I believe it has the right mix of playability and complexity.
2. It is fun without being in any way a "beer and pretzels" game.
3. There are no sure-fire strategies - variable weather, variable turn-length, a degree of luck when picking reinforcements plus of course good old fashioned dice, all go together to ensure that no two games are alike.
4. For those expecting a 100% accurate OB and unit factors, then this is not the game for them. However, what WIF does is give each player an accurate feel for their country's armed forces; the benefits and the problems that go with them - e.g. Commonwealth a small, mobile army - the Commonwealth army must be used sparringly; decent aircraft with a large variety of types giving a good degree of flexibility; and a lot of ships - by no means the best quality (except HMS Warspite of course) and massively overstretched.
5. The ruleset gives the game a proper historical context, but within that framework a player is not strait-jacketed in terms of players being able to try loads of different strategies.
6. A really important element for me with any game is the "look" of the game. WIF looks fantastic (except for the Final Edition maps [:(]) but the superb MWIF map sorts that little problem out [:)]. The counters are exceptionally good - NATO symbols for the army, silhouettes for the ships, and full colour camoflagued aircraft. Playing with SIF and PIF is a must for me as these excellent counters really add to gaming experience.

Warspite1 sums it up nicely.[:)]

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Empire101

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

Yes yes....I can picture it now.

Warspite: Suck on this Empire ( rolls 4 sixes )

Empire:- No..Noooo....NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! ( Yamato is sunk....Empire presses the eject button on his chair and is catapulted into the nearest heap of discarded 3rd Reich games )

Even now I can hear the screaming........

I remember a game where my friend, who played Japan, suddenly takes me aside from the game and declares that he wants to declare war on the Commonwealth close to one year earlier than planned. He had noticed that the bulk of the CW fleet, while relocating, had returned to base in a lightly garrisoned port within invasion range.

He quickly convinced me that we should abandon caution and go fast towards war with US since that is the result of a DOW against CW by Japan. His invasion is a success and by rolling incredible with the 10 sided die captures or sinks most of the fleet (close to half the rolls were 1's). CW lost all their carriers and Japan had 3 new carriers that could be used against the only naval threat remaining.

Sadly this caused the game to end because the Allied morale collapsed.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: Empire101

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

Yes yes....I can picture it now.

Warspite: Suck on this Empire ( rolls 4 sixes )

Empire:- No..Noooo....NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! ( Yamato is sunk....Empire presses the eject button on his chair and is catapulted into the nearest heap of discarded 3rd Reich games )

Even now I can hear the screaming........

His invasion is a success and by rolling incredible with the 10 sided die captures or sinks most of the fleet (close to half the rolls were 1's). CW lost all their carriers.........

warspite1

Er Orm.. either this did not really happen or the stupid game is borked. The CW would never lose a naval battle to the Japanese.

[Extraneous]

I thought I might bring this to your attention (unless your NDA is different than mine).

Beta Tester Agreement

3. Confidential Information

You shouldn't be giving your opinions of the game (which could be considered a review). I would suggest you re-read your NDA.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

I thought I might bring this to your attention (unless your NDA is different than mine).

Beta Tester Agreement

3. Confidential Information

You shouldn't be giving your opinions of the game (which could be considered a review). I would suggest you re-read your NDA.

warspite1

Have I missed something here? [&:]

What has the NDA (which I assume is the same as the one you signed) re MWIF got to do with my personal opinions of WIF? Please re-read Missouri_Rebel's question - in which he asked for peoples opinions of WIF - and my answer - in which I responded with my views on WIF. The only reference to MWIF I gave in my response was re the change to the maps. Given that screenshots of the maps have been posted by all and sundry over the last few years, I do not think I was giving away any trade secrets by simply stating that, imo, Steve's maps are better than the Final Edition maps that ADG came up with.

I have re-read my NDA as you suggested but can not see that I have done anything, even remotely, in contravention of said agreement. Can you please let me know what you believe I have done wrong?

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Prior to his ejector seat shenanigans, Empire looks on in disbelief as his Flagship disappears

[:D][:D]

[Missouri_Rebel]

Great. Like I was saying earlier, I've always wanted to learn WiF since the days of being in the hobby shop buying whatever ASL module it was at the time and asking the guy in front of me what he was purchasing. He said 'Wallet in Flames' and I laughed. Surely there wasn't more add-ons than ASL. My next trip there the owner was out of WiF so I picked up Advanced Third Reich although my time was committed to ASL and I never fully learned that system

I think I am going to like the more detailed units of WiF as opposed to A3R, although it would seem that the latter had a far more detailed diplomacy aspect. For instance, there were situations and country specific rules and forced actions for almost every nation in the conflict. That has always intrigued me. In hindsight, and while skimming the RaW's, I'd say that A3R and its sister game, Empire of the Rising Sun, were much more complex systems, the naval battles notwithstanding. Of course complexity doesn't always correlate to being superior.

Is this a fair assessment? What are your thoughts and how would you direct a noob to learn the system?

What makes WiF shine in you guys' opinion? What has been its secret of longevity especially compared to the obscure A3R?

mo reb



=====================================================================================================================

I'm gonna put this up again because I think we got a little sidetracked. I appreciate the answers so far, but please understand that I'm not asking about MWiF, but the system itself. I think we can discuss what is common knowledge of an existing system without delving into the computer version and compromising anyone's NDA or principles.

Sorry for the confusion.

mo reb

PS. I want a snazzy avatar; What do you think about one of these?

edit: the pic keeps disappearing?

[Shannon V. OKeets]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

What makes WiF shine in you guys' opinion? What has been its secret of longevity especially compared to the obscure A3R?

mo reb

warspite1

Mo Reb I never played Advanced 3rd Reich (although did try 3rd Reich). In my opinion, 3rd Reich and WIF simply do not compare.

There are a number of reasons for WIF being simply the best game ever.

1. I believe it has the right mix of playability and complexity.
2. It is fun without being in any way a "beer and pretzels" game.
3. There are no sure-fire strategies - variable weather, variable turn-length, a degree of luck when picking reinforcements plus of course good old fashioned dice, all go together to ensure that no two games are alike.
4. For those expecting a 100% accurate OB and unit factors, then this is not the game for them. However, what WIF does is give each player an accurate feel for their country's armed forces; the benefits and the problems that go with them - e.g. Commonwealth a small, mobile army - the Commonwealth army must be used sparringly; decent aircraft with a large variety of types giving a good degree of flexibility; and a lot of ships - by no means the best quality (except HMS Warspite of course) and massively overstretched.
5. The ruleset gives the game a proper historical context, but within that framework a player is not strait-jacketed in terms of players being able to try loads of different strategies.
6. A really important element for me with any game is the "look" of the game. WIF looks fantastic (except for the Final Edition maps [:(]) but the superb MWIF map sorts that little problem out [:)]. The counters are exceptionally good - NATO symbols for the army, silhouettes for the ships, and full colour camoflagued aircraft. Playing with SIF and PIF is a must for me as these excellent counters really add to gaming experience.

I am working my way through Churchill's 6 volume set on WWII. In the second volume he describes the decisions he faced during 1940. When playing WIF, the Commonwealth player faces effectively the same decisions. There are too few resources available and a ton of demands on them. Where to deploy the army, navy, and air force are major decisions. How to focus industry to supply all 3 branches of service, plus the merchant marine, is another set.

Churchill was worrying about transports and thought of them as 3 classes: the Queen Mary & Elizabeth, fast transports, and slower transports. WIF captures these decisions perfectly, down to the detail of using one type to take units from the United Kingdom down to South Africa and a second type to take them up to Egypt. His reason for using different types for each leg of the journey is the same for WIF players, to have the faster transports back in England for future use (sooner). Similarly, the Admiralty (and Churchill) worried/argued frequently about running transports through the Med at the risk of Italian attack from the air, from surface ships, and from submarines. This is the same when you play WIF.

Towards the end of 1940, Churchill is pressuring Roosevelt for destroyers, merchant marine ships (convoys in WIF terms), US escorts in the Atlantic, and other items that show up in WIF as US Entry Options. Just as Roosevelt had to, the US player has to worry about US politics turning the nation against any involvement in the European conflict. This area of WIF is somewhat murkier, but many of the important details from history are included.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

Great. Like I was saying earlier, I've always wanted to learn WiF since the days of being in the hobby shop buying whatever ASL module it was at the time and asking the guy in front of me what he was purchasing. He said 'Wallet in Flames' and I laughed. Surely there wasn't more add-ons than ASL. My next trip there the owner was out of WiF so I picked up Advanced Third Reich although my time was committed to ASL and I never fully learned that system

I think I am going to like the more detailed units of WiF as opposed to A3R, although it would seem that the latter had a far more detailed diplomacy aspect. For instance, there were situations and country specific rules and forced actions for almost every nation in the conflict. That has always intrigued me. In hindsight, and while skimming the RaW's, I'd say that A3R and its sister game, Empire of the Rising Sun, were much more complex systems, the naval battles notwithstanding. Of course complexity doesn't always correlate to being superior.

Is this a fair assessment? What are your thoughts and how would you direct a noob to learn the system?

What makes WiF shine in you guys' opinion? What has been its secret of longevity especially compared to the obscure A3R?

mo reb



=====================================================================================================================

I'm gonna put this up again because I think we got a little sidetracked. I appreciate the answers so far, but please understand that I'm not asking about MWiF, but the system itself. I think we can discuss what is common knowledge of an existing system without delving into the computer version and compromising anyone's NDA or principles.

Sorry for the confusion.

mo reb

PS. I want a snazzy avatar; What do you think about one of these?

edit: the pic keeps disappearing?

warspite1

Well, like I said, I was certainly not talking about MWIF in my response to you - just happy to give my 2 cents at a high level why WIF is so damn good.

The thing I found most difficult to understand was the naval rules - not because they are particularly complicated, but because the whole sea-box concept was completely new to me. No way I could read the manual and understand what was going on - I had to set up the game and work through...but then I'm not exactly brain of Britain [:D]

As for the avatars - they look cool - you can't really go wrong with the Panzer IV or the Panther. Sure you wouldn't prefer a WIF counter instead though? [8D]

[SLAAKMAN]

Warspite1

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

(Only to find Decima Flottiglia MAS had boobytrapped the harbor resulting in the capture of Warspite & all its crew)!!!
[:'(][:'(][:'(]

[Missouri_Rebel]

I would assume the U.K has to be one of the harder countries to play. Them and maybe Japan.

1) Which country would be the easiest to play as? I would also assume Russia early on as long as the player discovers how to slow the Germans thrust just enough.

2)I guess a noob such as myself should stay away from any global game if there are only a couple of players. Are there a good mix of 2 nation scenarios that would be easiest to begin at?

3) (and most important at this juncture) What are the suggestions for learning the system? How would you direct a potential newcomer?

Read the rules front to back? Concentrate on a certain set of rules? Start with ____ section? Read this article_________? Buy the boardgame to use their examples on map? Use VASSAL?

Please be specific.

I think I might have CWiF on some hard drive. Would you suggest trying to use that as a player aid?

Again,
thanks from a future opponent.

mo reb

[Missouri_Rebel]

ORIGINAL: warspite

The thing I found most difficult to understand was the naval rules - not because they are particularly complicated, but because the whole sea-box concept was completely new to me. No way I could read the manual and understand what was going on - I had to set up the game and work through...but then I'm not exactly brain of Britain [:D]

Thanks for the input. I was typing the above post while you were responding.

As for the avatars - they look cool - you can't really go wrong with the Panzer IV or the Panther. Sure you wouldn't prefer a WIF counter instead though? [8D]

Yes I would. Brother could you spare an avatar?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: SLAAKMAN

Warspite1

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

(Only to find Decima Flottiglia MAS had boobytrapped the harbor resulting in the capture of Warspite & all its crew)!!!
[:'(][:'(][:'(]

warspite1

AAR: May 1st 1942

Warspite returned to Singapore at the end of the turn for tea and medals, only to find that the Italian X MAS had got there first. However, after quickly recovering from the shock of seeing enemy ships barring his way, Captain F.E.P Hutton devised a cunning plan.

Hutton pretended to surrender his fleet to the Italian sailors and invited them aboard the Flagship; seemingly to offer his sword in surrender. But Hutton had no such intention. As the Italians came aboard the crew of the Warspite shouted Boo! at the top of their voices; frightened by the noise, the Italian sailors immediately put their hands up and found themselves surrendering to Hutton and his men.

Pleased with his work, Hutton then ordered Warspite to enter the port to get some well earned rest. After all, tomorrow was going to be a busy day, Warspite had the rest of the IJN to sink before heading back to the Mediterranean, where, within a couple of weeks, she had also forced the surrender of Mussolini and Italy.

After Italy's exit from the war in July 1942, Hutton formulated his next plan... "time for me to visit the Baltic and deal with that pesky Mr Hitler".

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

ORIGINAL: warspite

The thing I found most difficult to understand was the naval rules - not because they are particularly complicated, but because the whole sea-box concept was completely new to me. No way I could read the manual and understand what was going on - I had to set up the game and work through...but then I'm not exactly brain of Britain [:D]

Thanks for the input. I was typing the above post while you were responding.

As for the avatars - they look cool - you can't really go wrong with the Panzer IV or the Panther. Sure you wouldn't prefer a WIF counter instead though? [8D]

Yes I would. Brother could you spare an avatar?

warspite1

I can ask Patrice to let you have one - any requests?

[paulderynck]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I look forward to it Empire. I can see the AAR now:

April 1942. The RN's Eastern Fleet, led by HMS Warspite, sorties into the South China Sea and quickly despatches Yamato, Hiei, Kongo and Nagato to the bottom of the sea. Yamato and Warspite fought a duel that lasted 30 minutes. Warspite's 15-inchers pummelled the hapless Japanese battleship into oblivion, while in reply, the Grand Old Lady required a new lick of paint when she returned triumphantly to Singapore after the battle.

With great respect, it would appear from the stats that any competent Japanese commander of Yamato could dispatch Warspite without incurring any serious damage.

The Yamato was 3 kts faster and could fire shells 42 km while the Warspite's record hit with her 15 inchers was at a distance of less than 24 km. The Yamato would have an 18 km "safety zone" whithin which she could fire at the Warspite without danger of being hit herself.

The Warspite would only have a chance if she appeared out of a fog bank or morning mist and was within range of Yamato. Otherwise the Yamato just stays out of range with her superior speed and pummels Warspite with complete impunity.

Sorry.