AI supply lines working properly?

[wdkruger]

I've been playing the Losheim gap scenario as the Germans. I have clearly sorounded several US Units, but when I look at the F7 supply line tab, all the USA units always shows green. Is this just an intelligence problem, or does the AI have some advantage in supply delivery.

[Lieste]

I would need to double check the display of enemy supply status (not something I monitor in detail)... but for friendly supply:

You might have a pocketed supply source ~ this will be 'out of supply' if it cannot connect outside the pocket, but all of the supported elements will take supply from these local stocks (those on other supply chains will suffer (at least) a temporary OOS situation).

You might have a covered, high mobility corridor (either by terrain features (eg wood/town with road) or landform (deep valley or steep slopes) covering the LOS to the supply route, despite near proximity of enemy forces.

You will only see information relating to the status of the most recent supply run... for troops with plentiful supply in light contact it could be 12-24 hours before the next supply run is generated, and the OOS status will not update until then. In heavier contact, or with more depleted supply an emergency supply will be generated at up to 1 hour intervals - these will obviously cause the change of supply status to be reported far sooner.

[Lieste]

Any individual unit has sufficient ammunition, fuel, food to fight and survive for 1-2 days in moderate combat... in heavy combat that might be reduced to only a few hours, but with no contact at all, only fuel and fatigue (associated with no basics) worsen, and ammunition stocks and limited combat potential remain indefinitely.

[wdkruger]

I ran a test game and used all my rescources to cut off a couple of platoons in Roth. No question they were cut off. Supply line (F7) indicator stayed green throughout day 2. Basic supply seemed to go down, so this may be just a intelligence failure. Has anyone ever seen an enemy unit with a red supply indicator?

[Phoenix100]

Yes. But it takes ages. I have voiced this very complaint in the past, wdkruger. In particular, when playing 'centaurs' in the old COTA scenarios, I went to great lengths to cut off attacking Italian units and though the indicators did show their supply suffering after 3 or 4 days (seriously) they quite often managed, somehow, to get resupply (I guess via the methods Lieste mentioned above) and they certainly got nowhere near surrendering by day 9. So I would say that the idea of cutting off units and starving them into submission doesn't work too well in this game. When I 'complained' we had a discussion about how the AI manages to resupply over all sorts of terrain, covertly. I think this is, indeed, very unrealistic. Trains of trucks do not creep up hillsides into surrounded pockets of troops in RL (let alone go through forests). I personally think that achieving supply in the game is a little easy. I always imagine that the enemy would be particularly vigilant for truck convoys, which are soft, easy targets. ON the other hand, there is a level of abstraction, I guess. We should be imagining that the routes in to advance units are in some way picketed, I think, though this isn't shown. Still.....

[wdkruger]

Hi Pheonix,

I am new to the series so was unfamiliar with these earlier discussions. The one thing I will point out is that my units frequently have their supply lines cut (red F7 supply), but I have NEVER observed this for the AI forces. I just wonder if the AI algorithm for resupply is somehow different than the players. Perhaps Dave could chime in.

Warren

[Arjuna]

The AI's resupply is handled by the code as the human player's forces. So if you see it working for you then it is working for the AI. Now whether you have intel on that is completely another matter. By and large you won't have accurate intel on enemy resupply. Just as in real life the only way you know it has had an effect is by launching an attack and seeing what return fire there is and whether or not the enemy surrenders easily because he has run out of basics.

I also want to reinforce what Lieste said about it taking a number of days before any real effect manifests. Companies normally held 48 hours of rations. So it would be at least 72 hours before you saw any real effect due to lack of basics. As to ammo, well they will retain whatever they had until they expend it. So the best way to accelerate their predicament is to attackl them.

My advice is not to expect that you will be given perfect intel on the enemy's resupply status.

[wdkruger]

Thanks Dave, I suspected in might just be an intelligence thing.

BTW I am very much enjoying the game. It is most definitely the best operational scale wargame I have played. I am rereading the relevant chapters in Hitler's Last Gamble by DuPuy as I am playing and it is interesting to see how well the game simulates what actually happened. (Also it makes Dupuy a lot easier to follow because of great maps!). With Regard to Loshem Gap Scenario, clearly the AI is tougher than the real life 106th, mostly because the regiments start moving much earlier than in real life. That being said, I still have not been able to take Schonberg by 8am d2 which is historically what happened. Maybe I can sneak a company in at night.