Nothing Up My Sleeve: Magical Moose Tricks--Bullwinkle58 vs.1EyedJacks

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
So, again, what was this attack? Mabels on naval attack he forgot about? A coincidence, with the KB en masse leaving the area? Bait for my two at-sea CVs, which I don't think he has a sighting on?

What makes you think this isn't a mini-KB derivative, tasked with supporting the Johnston landing? In addition to the 6 fleet CVs, he should have 2xCVE and 2xCVLs available to him for these efforts. The Mabels would be good candidates for CVEs particularly.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
So, again, what was this attack? Mabels on naval attack he forgot about? A coincidence, with the KB en masse leaving the area? Bait for my two at-sea CVs, which I don't think he has a sighting on?

What makes you think this isn't a mini-KB derivative, tasked with supporting the Johnston landing? In addition to the 6 fleet CVs, he should have 2xCVE and 2xCVLs available to him for these efforts. The Mabels would be good candidates for CVEs particularly.

Could be, but I know there's a mini-KB in the Celebes Sea, or maybe now at Legaspi or Babel. Don't the CVEs start in the HI too? Could they have gotten that far east by the 11th?

If he did this my hat's off to him, because there were Mabels in the 12/7 PH strikes and after as well. A nice bit of switcheroo if he put some Mabels on a KB CV AND on a CVE/CVL he hustled over for Johnson.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
So, again, what was this attack? Mabels on naval attack he forgot about? A coincidence, with the KB en masse leaving the area? Bait for my two at-sea CVs, which I don't think he has a sighting on?

What makes you think this isn't a mini-KB derivative, tasked with supporting the Johnston landing? In addition to the 6 fleet CVs, he should have 2xCVE and 2xCVLs available to him for these efforts. The Mabels would be good candidates for CVEs particularly.

Could be, but I know there's a mini-KB in the Celebes Sea, or maybe now at Legaspi or Babel. Don't the CVEs start in the HI too? Could they have gotten that far east by the 11th?

If he did this my hat's off to him, because there were Mabels in the 12/7 PH strikes and after as well. A nice bit of switcheroo if he put some Mabels on a KB CV AND on a CVE/CVL he hustled over for Johnson.

One of the CVEs in scenario 2 starts off near Babeldoap, but don't know if it could have transited to Johnson within 4 days. That's a tight schedule and a long distance for a 25 knot ship.

[DOCUP]

Johnston Island is an observation post.  He can keep tabs on PH, fly nav search for his subs, and is an early warning for future offenses.  You have to take Johnston before you can use PH as a forward base.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Johnston Island is an observation post.  He can keep tabs on PH, fly nav search for his subs, and is an early warning for future offenses.  You have to take Johnston before you can use PH as a forward base.

It's that if I don't go bombard it to dust after his carriers leave. By itself it's just a deathtrap for a naval guard unit and an SNLF unit. It has ot be part of something larger, unless it's not and it's just being done to make me focus on Hawaii.

[DOCUP]

If he had fighters on the island he could defend it somewhat.  You would have a hard time sweeping it unless you used your carriers.  You could be right about him taking it to make you focus on Hawaii.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

If he had fighters on the island he could defend it somewhat.  You would have a hard time sweeping it unless you used your carriers.  You could be right about him taking it to make you focus on Hawaii.

He would need to bring Bettys I think. I would still send BBs to bombard if he had fighters. That close to PH and the yards I'd risk it. And if he put Bettys there I'd invade it. The risk-cost ratio in VPs versus him sniping incoming Hawaii merchants would be on the side of a landing, even without carriers. It's not far from Pearl.

[DOCUP]

You would have to take Johnston no matter what he did with the island.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

You would have to take Johnston no matter what he did with the island.

Well, not right now. If he just stands on it with infantry I can leave it alone. Eventually I would want the VPs back, but if he did nothing, including putting patrol planes there, I would ignore it. I don't think that's what will happen, but the question is how long can I leave it be while I attend to other things?

[DOCUP]

Oh yea forgot   Drive by.  Be a great place to train up ur bomber pilots and ship crews with bombardments.

[Chickenboy]

Not nearly enough denigrating potty humor here, Bull. Please allow me to be the first to besmirch your AAR with scatological references...

(snicker)...Please tell us more about your opponent's overextended efforts at Johnson...(snicker)...

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Oh yea forgot   Drive by.  Be a great place to train up ur bomber pilots and ship crews with bombardments.

Oh that I had some bombers . . .

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Not nearly enough denigrating potty humor here, Bull. Please allow me to be the first to besmirch your AAR with scatological references...

(snicker)...Please tell us more about your opponent's overextended efforts at Johnson...(snicker)...

OK, bird man, you force me to "go there" when you use "scatalogical" (look it up) and a sexual sideways wink with "Johnson." Methinks someone has been around too many cloacas lately. [8D]

And I don't mean the Latin meaning either . . .

[Chickenboy]

Sorry, I can't get past the scene from Beavis and Butthead do America, where then President Clinton congratulated the two for saving the country. They two boys couldn't accept the President's extended gratitude. They were too hung up on the President's unfortunate wording.

"Uh, huh-uh huh huh...he said extend."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkjmtfQVzWU

[erstad]

When I was in high school, I played a lot of AH and SPI games. One of my gaming buddies and I were constantly sniggering over SPI's "Sniper!". Using the terminology of the game, it was quite normal to make a statement like "The erect sniper exposed himself at the window." Source of much amusement.

I've matured a lot since then.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: erstad
I've matured a lot since then.

Hi Erstad,

I'm very sorry to hear that. [:(]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: erstad
I've matured a lot since then.

Hi Erstad,

I'm very sorry to hear that. [:(]

Yes, poor guy. [:(]

[Bullwinkle58]

December 12, 1941 Addendum

As I get more used to PBEM one of the challenges for me is the disassociated gameplay on the Allied side due to the combat replay and the next turn being in different files. On only one turn so far have I gotten both at once. I like getting the replay earlier, so that's not the issue, but it does make it harder for me, given the way my head works, to get into the flow of the moving pieces. I have been doing the AAR by watching the movie once fairly quickly, and then using the combatreport.txt to write from. This spreads out the work load as I can write while Mike is doing the turn, but it's sometimes hard to see where things settle out, especially events which come up in the PM search and recon efforts. Such was the case here.

Let me first say that I re-watched the movie more carefuly, then correlated ASW at Pearl to the combatreport.txt. I then did open a new Scen 2 game in order to look at the IJN OOB. In both the "gaggle off Lanai" and up north of PH, I see: I-3, 4, 8, 9, 15, 19, 21. Of those it seems that I-8, 9, 15, 19, 21 are Glen-equipped. I did not check previous days' attacks to see if the others are also Glenned, but regardless, it appears he has a large number of his available Glens at PH. This makes me rest easier about what that gaggle is there for. I also got an eastern movement vector for it from the multiple ASW actions. As well I got a FOWed report of two Glen losses this turn, one to A2A and one to Ops. Maybe one of those is true.

More significantly, looking at the next turn file I see that the Mabel attack on Johnson's AM was from the KB, which has not left the region. Presumably it has refueled, but not enough time elapsed for it to have re-sortied. I don't know how many missions it has left, but only Mabels flew on naval. Perhaps he had the Kates grounded, or the AI might have not thought it worth launching more, but either way if he was baiting a trap for my carriers bagging an AM in exchange for giving away the KB was a bad trade IMO.

In the shot below the TF west of Johnson has an easterly course, but reads as a single DD. It is more than that for sure, possibly aviation support and an air unit or three for Johnson. My two patrol planes on Johnson had been looking south for the intel sniff. I will turn them west now, but I think I'll know what Mr. DD is before they can report.

Lex and Enterprise are still east of Christmas I. and Sara is in SD. I have some decisions to make this turn. Is the KB going to hang around, and if so can I force it to eat more sorties cheaply and then set up a CV ambush? Should I bring Sara out, or does he have a sub trap off SD? I havent seen any, but Sara would have to transit to join her sisters with only one DD for escort. Or should I leave the carriers out of this, and put together what I can at Pearl for a landing zone raid on Johnson, and risk that DDs can dodge Kates with bombs? Or, hardest for me, should I wait and see what happens?

Strategically, is Hawaii his chosen area of interest? Has the allure of VPs when I can't really do much to respond steered him to this fairly difficult choice? Or is this cover for a more permanent move in NorPac or, longer term, somewhere in British Empire Land?

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
Sara would have to transit to join her sisters with only one DD for escort.

Do not do that.

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

More significantly, looking at the next turn file I see that the Mabel attack on Johnson's AM was from the KB, which has not left the region. Presumably it has refueled, but not enough time elapsed for it to have re-sortied. I don't know how many missions it has left, but only Mabels flew on naval. Perhaps he had the Kates grounded, or the AI might have not thought it worth launching more, but either way if he was baiting a trap for my carriers bagging an AM in exchange for giving away the KB was a bad trade IMO.

Lex and Enterprise are still east of Christmas I. and Sara is in SD. I have some decisions to make this turn. Is the KB going to hang around, and if so can I force it to eat more sorties cheaply and then set up a CV ambush? Should I bring Sara out, or does he have a sub trap off SD? I havent seen any, but Sara would have to transit to join her sisters with only one DD for escort. Or should I leave the carriers out of this, and put together what I can at Pearl for a landing zone raid on Johnson, and risk that DDs can dodge Kates with bombs? Or, hardest for me, should I wait and see what happens?

KB can hang around Hawaii for some time. I did a one day strike at PH, used one day of full speed movement N.W. then swung back towards the West Coast as soon as I was undetected. I was able to patrol at some length and eventually swung southwest towards Tahiti then west to Fiji. I was able to patrol well into January before being concerned with fuel, especially if the AO's stay close.

I hit numerous TF's along the way and had tons of sorties left and about 100 torpedoes. I switched Kate's to bombs to conserve the torps since they are absolutely wasted on trying to hit DD's. Kate's with bombs against your DD's will be more effective than if they were using torpedoes in my opinion. The Kate pilots are pretty skilled at naval bombing.

So just for your information, KB can be a dangerous threat for some time before needing to refuel and replenish. If your opponent is cagey, he'll conserve his remaining torps and use bombs until he can get a sighting of torpedo worthy shipping. Don't be in a rush to commit your CV's. It's great that you got a sighting and that allows you to react, but if KB disappears again heading east, I'd be very cautious sending anything of value from the West Coast, especially CV Saratoga.