Permit me to clarify my comments about PM, since, on reading back through this page, it might seem that my "nuts" comment was aimed at Zulu. It wasn't - I wasn't aware of who had made the references to PM when I made my post, as I had only read the last few posts before I made mine. Zulu is "good people" and I hope he didn't take offense. (That's a legit concern, because I did something similar once before and really torched a relationship with a good member of the forums.)
PM is far to advanced for the Allies to risk against an experienced player. Japan can take it at its will through mid 1942 (or later). That means it is a potential prison camp for any major garrison the Allies commit there. Japan can isolate it and take it without hardly breaking a sweat, so it's not like it serves as a diversion "sucking in Japanese attention" that might be better used elsewhere. IE, it costs the Allies far more than it does Japan. If you need a second on this motion, I refer you to Q-Ball. As an IJ player, he would simply abuse any Allied strategy that included a "forward PM" defense.
In Scenario 2, Noumea might be the most analagous base to the Real War PM. Even then, I am reluctant to garrison Noumea until I'm sure Japan isn't coming for it. But think of that - Noumea is at least a 1,000 miles southeast of PM.
The shift in "way out there" between an AI game and this is extreme. You never forget in an AI game there is no emotion on the other side, no gambler's instinct, and no boredom looking for a fight to shake things up after a long period of paper-pushing. Taking PM is easy in an AI game because the AI doesn't care. Maybe it does in Ironman; I don't know.
I hear you on Noumea too. I've sent about 8000 supply there to help the forts, but I'm not sending men for months and months. And it's killing me. It just seems wrong. But they're tucked snug in their beds in Sydney and Aukland and like it. It's so hard, playing at this pace, to remember how long this thing will last. It's the single biggest change in mindset from AI. I keep looking for my P-38s, but it's not even Christmas yet.
ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
I was micro-tweaking the turn and found that four hours had passed.
A-ha! I thought you said that you didn't do 'fiddly'? [;)]
I find that I have to consciously distance myself from a turn and decide 'good enough'. When I get to a-fiddlin' with my units (and production-yeesh), time flies.
I usually don't do fiddly, and as the unit count edges up I think I won't physically be able to, but right now I think attention to detail is helping me. I've established a turn routine on a macro basis, but I don't keep notes, and I don't do each turn in a strict set of steps.
As I figure out more how careeful he is I may ease off of doing some things every day. But right now repair yard maximization and watching pilot fatigue takes some time, and balancing off the speeds of the Chinese fleeing masses with ways he could cut off road and rail junctions is leading to a lot of scrolling and checking mile progress on individual LCUs. Then there's the terrain checks . . .
I also have not turned on any auto-convoys, and I like auto-convoy. I've never had to worry about Japan being so far forward around Hawaii. I don't trust auto-convoy with that. And many, many Allied bases start the game with two boxes of Corn Flakes and a Barney Fife single bullet on hand.
Moose, you are playing at a level far beyond my own. IE, you give attention to details that I seldom pay attention to - even now, let alone during my first PBEM game. Already, you are a dangerous player.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
Moose, you are playing at a level far beyond my own. IE, you give attention to details that I seldom pay attention to - even now, let alone during my first PBEM game. Already, you are a dangerous player.
Thanks Dan, no harm done. I guess I'm at the point where I want play the game a bit more and follow history a bit less. Terry has requested a game along historical lines and I oblidged him. (This time around) also. I've somehow got myself wrapped up around time lines now. When is this possible, when is this likely kind of thread. Taking in some of the RA and "B" scenarios in the threads is really opening up the game far more than I thought. With an eye to "B" allied or "B" Japan side in the future, I have been logging events in the AARs for a future perspective relative to the time lines. In another vein, I intend to force Terry to terms by Jan '44 because I think I can. I need one victory in '42 over his carriers before spring '43. I lost four to nil last game in '42. Then I will finish it it summer '43. (he does not like to continue sans Kido Butai). I have commited myself (I think) to a bloody exchange in the Coral Sea and have keen interest in any contest where this may play a pivital role. In a "B" scenario or no HR type scenario such as the Moose has drawn, I respect and am inclined to look more at an Indian Ocean allied CV depolyment or other "seldom seen" strategem. As I see it here, Moose must wait on the JE to see where the future lies, and judging by his actions thus far, will represent the AFBs admirably, divulging new ideas on the journey for the peanut gallery.
It's A Long Road, To Johnson Island . . . Torpedo Alley . . . Oppa Changsha Style!
It's Christmas Week here in the the Pacific, and good Allied children are making thier lists. Having Christmas Island on the roster for the big day is probably not in the cards, but Santa did deliver a few early presents today.
1) The build-up, whatever it entails, continues at Johnson Island with multiple small TFs coming in, each escorted by a relio trulio DD. I have tried to put my subs where they will draw blood, with overlapping patrol zones in some cases. Imagine sailing all the way from the Home Islands and getting jumped one hex from the harbor.
Sub attack near Johnston Island at 163,111
Japanese Ships
xAK Kyosei Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Izan Maru
DD Tawakaze
Allied Ships
SS Narwhal
Sub attack near Johnston Island at 162,110
Japanese Ships
xAK Nisso Maru, Torpedo hits 1
xAK Izan Maru
DD Tawakaze
Allied Ships
SS S-27
Sub attack near Johnston Island at 162,110
Japanese Ships
xAK Nisso Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Yukaze
Allied Ships
SS S-27
After this one the sunk-sound is heard. It's possible that small xAK TFs like this, with a rare DD as escort, are carrying an air unit. If so, much better. A good day around Johnson for some really old, obsolete hardware.
2) Further sub war news is mixed. In two attacks in deep water one hex from Cam Rahn Bay, Sargo misses, but Searaven connects.
Sub attack near Cam Ranh Bay at 65,71
Japanese Ships
xAK Kenyo Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
Allied Ships
SS Searaven
SS Searaven launches 2 torpedoes at xAK Kenyo Maru
I want the Japanese to understand that even this early there is no place they are safe. Escorts eat fuel and repair time. I have USS Tarpon on patrol in shallow water guarding Port Arthur on a racetrack route to further make this point.
3) The Japanese do draw blood by once again penetrating Hilo harbor, this time sinking xAK Lorrain. She was part of a small supply Tf sent up from Tahihi. I had aimed them at Pearl, but they are not escorted and the subs are thick around the harbor, so I pulled them into Hilo instead to wet their beaks. I-173 scored the sinking, but earlier had been attacked for one hit by two DDs in an unsuccessful xAP attack. I'd rather lose the xAK than an unloading xAP.
4) The minefield at Johnson is detected and the Japanese clear 3. This is a simple harrassment field, as my mine inventories are flat.
5) Landings at Kuching continue. 6in. CD guns hit nothing. Landing prep fire begins at Bojangles, by four DDs. This may be a fairly heavy troop injection. The initial wave is the 146th Reg. I have one LCU defending Bo and the retreating remnants of another headed in from Davao. Bo will not go with the flow. It will simply go, and pretty soon.
6) My British MTBs, long-legged refugees from Hong Kong, now repaired and precariously based at Lingayan, strike all the way to Aparri and meet two DMSes. Gunfinre is exchanged, one MTB is wounded, and they withdraw. But this first PT action of the war was intended to add another dimension to his planning task. The USN PTs, also based at Lingayan but with shorter legs, poke their noses into San Fernando but find no ships. I have sent my patrol assets away from the PI to save VPs and supply, and am operating essentially blind. Lingayan still has 87 sub-laid mines, and I hope to sucker him into following my PTs home. So far no luck. My two lonely Manila DDs also go south to Legsapi but find no prey. He seems to have enough ashore in the north to do the job for now.
7) The air war has firmly entered a second phase all over the theater. Wave after wave of attacks which I will not try to detail. Textbook Zero sweep at Manila, followed by Oscar sweep, followed by heavily escorted 16, 32, and 15 each Betty raids continue to crush the airfield and do about 2 supply points of damage per. He would be far better served sending these planes to attack Singers, the last substantial AF in the theater, but I won't complain. Manila has no planes and no infrastructure repairs going on. It's just making supply and sending it to Bataan.
Singers also, as I feared, gets its AF worked over after the TB's showed their swords yesterday. I have a few Buffalo up to wave their arms and yell real loud, but he hurts me.
Morning Air attack on Singapore , at 50,84
Weather in hex: Light rain
Raid detected at 39 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes
I have many of my surviving Buffaloes detailed to fly with the TBs. I'm not sure if it helps when there are no CVs located, but fly they do, the magnificent bastids!
8) Morning Air attack on TF, near Terempa at 54,84
Weather in hex: Light cloud
Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes
Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 9
Swordfish I x 5
Allied aircraft losses
Swordfish I: 3 damaged
Japanese Ships CA Suzuya, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
CA Mogami
This attack generated three text lines: penetrating hit, heavy damage, engine damage for each torpedo.
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Terempa at 54,84
Weather in hex: Overcast
Raid spotted at 7 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes
Allied aircraft
Buffalo I x 7
Swordfish I x 3
No Allied losses
Japanese Ships
CA Kumano
Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Swordfish I bombing from 5000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb
(Not bombs, you idiots!! There are 120 torpedo points in two HQs at Singers, and you load bombs?!!!!)
Oh, well. One great attack, I can't be greedy. I think she'll make port since there are no fires, but it's a couple of months in the yards I think. Also, the turn ends with an Allied sub in the same hex as this TF, so we'll see. I expect the punishment on Singers AF will be severe tomorrow, so it's time to start the in & out shuffle with air groups. Palembang is still safe since he has not taken NW Borneo.
9) Daytime landings continue at Kuching with one 6 in. hit, but the mix of forces ashore are enough, and Kuching falls.
Defending units:
Sarawak Force
2/15 Punjab Bn /2
106th RN Base Force
Sarawak Force surrenders; the other two retreat. I may be able to rope them into defense of the other two bases depending on which way they went.
10) Yesterday I got an intel in open water near Manado. I had a sub nearby, so I set up a thing I call the "Three-Point-Play." This name is a memory device I use to remind me to do these every so often, especilaly in the early game., A TPP is a USN fleet boat with duds being zoned to hit three unattacked hexes in a triangle, not to attack but to recon. The middle legs should if possible cover choke points or straits, and the legs can be fairly long. The point is to use the fleet boat's amazing station-keeping time and not worry so much about attacking anything. For that I try to have a Dutch sub or an S-boat in the general region I can vector onto a contact. I do TPPs near the Celebes, near Ambon, near Balikpapan, and near Port Blair, among others.
This time I figured my intel was a landing TF, so I set up the boat to call at Ternate, Manado, and then at Morotai. I guessed wrong by making Ternate stop #1, as he hit Manado hard.
The CD gunners do well, applying enough hits to probably sink one of the xAKLs after the unload, and heavily damaging another. This TF will need a second day to unload. I think I can get the fleet boat there by then.
11) Christmas Island holds for a second day. Surprise, surprise. 51st Naval Guard unit drew a 1:2 and took twice the casualties the defenders did.
12) In China generally, Japan shifts even more to city bombing, focusing on Changsha to a fair degree. Little damge is recorded, so perhaps this is also recon.
Last turn I noticed that a lone Japanese LCU had entered Changsha's hex. I did not know what it was, but I fugured it had to be something pretty stiff to do that. I am blind in China now, but my rough data showed a stack of four LCUs one hex to the east on the road, approaching. Changsha has about 13,000 supply, Forts 4, and is stockpiling everything it makes. Its defenders are all at about 50% TOE or less, in a couple of cases much less, but last turn I also spent PPs to ugrade two corps commanders from low-30s to low-60s on Land skill. I figured I had one turn's chance, and I wanted to jerk the Japanese around, make them gun shy, and buy me a few more days of "look over here!" for my escapees to march. Chinese troops can fight when supplied and led. I knew it was a dice roll, but I took it. The Chinese army does not disappoint.
Ground combat at Changsha (82,52)
Allied Shock attack
Attacking force 59860 troops, 385 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1783
Defending force 5584 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 194
Assaulting units:
72nd Chinese Corps
74th Chinese Corps
58th Chinese Corps
10th Chinese Corps
73rd Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Corps
78th Chinese Corps
26th Chinese Corps
5th Construction Regiment
9th War Area
30th Group Army
29th Group Army
17th Chinese Base Force
Holy anticlimax, Batman! With that send up, I was expecting half the KB sunk, or the Mutsu and Nagato slayed by His Excellency the Prince of Wales. [:)] Seriously, in December 1941 a brigade shredded (unlucky op mode failure there) by the Chinese, a few AKs sunk and a CA seriously damaged is none too shabby.
I don't understand putting capital ships in range of the Torpedo bombers.
Its just not necessary
Often in the early days as the IJ it is very necessary unless you like losing APs filled with troops. Many things could have gone wrong with his LR CAP or how fast the TF was moving, but it's obviously not ideal as it turned out. But this is exactly where the Allied player has to be prepared, as the Moose was here, and take what is offered. It could have turned out very differently though if 10 zeros were hovering over that TF.
"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
Oh, I take your point Obvert (and as an AFB, I really don't know the Japanese OOB at all) but the desire to press on as fast as possible appears to be making players take risks.
There are enough air assets around to ensure any invasions in Allied TB range have decent CAP (at least I think there is).
Holy anticlimax, Batman! With that send up, I was expecting half the KB sunk, or the Mutsu and Nagato slayed by His Excellency the Prince of Wales. [:)] Seriously, in December 1941 a brigade shredded (unlucky op mode failure there) by the Chinese, a few AKs sunk and a CA seriously damaged is none too shabby.
Cheers,
CC
I have said elsewhere before that my best days playing against Japan and the AI always came when I hit or sank an IJN CA. I get pooh-poohed on this by BB fanbois, but I stand by it. Ton for ton no ships in Japan's inventory are more useful and flexible than the heavy cruisers, and they don't get any more. BBs are fuel pigs. When damaged they take half of forever to fix. Some of them are slow. Their AA upgrades take the other half of forever. CAs can stand with a carrier TF. They can raid with no fear of anything but BBs and TBs. They can run when they have to. They soak up shells at landing beaches and suppress CD. Also, they are the prettiest ships Japan ever designed. So it's fun to sink them. [:)]
I am also, at base, a sub guy. I love my subs. I spend inordinate amounts of time cosseting them, moving them, looking at their COs, many of whom are boyhood pals of mine. I knew about Mush Morton before I ever heard of Mickey Mantle. So when they do well I am happy. A lot of this AAR will talk about subs. It is my feeling that many PBEMs who decry subs in the game just don't play them very well. I hope to change the perception that they can't gut Japan's economy, as they did in RL.
I don't understand putting capital ships in range of the Torpedo bombers.
Its just not necessary
Often in the early days as the IJ it is very necessary unless you like losing APs filled with troops. Many things could have gone wrong with his LR CAP or how fast the TF was moving, but it's obviously not ideal as it turned out. But this is exactly where the Allied player has to be prepared, as the Moose was here, and take what is offered. It could have turned out very differently though if 10 zeros were hovering over that TF.
Very true, although as Chickenboy has pointed out, he has not taken NW Borneo yet. To be operatiung that close to Sumatra and Singers with the closest Zero base being Saigon or KB is pretty out there. I have intel that he's building an AF at Miri, and he has a few Oscars either there or Brunei, but he hasn't managed to get more than six airborne at once to face my B-17s, and most days it's two.
Holy anticlimax, Batman! With that send up, I was expecting half the KB sunk, or the Mutsu and Nagato slayed by His Excellency the Prince of Wales. [:)] Seriously, in December 1941 a brigade shredded (unlucky op mode failure there) by the Chinese, a few AKs sunk and a CA seriously damaged is none too shabby.
Cheers,
CC
I have said elsewhere before that my best days playing against Japan and the AI always came when I hit or sank an IJN CA. I get pooh-poohed on this by BB fanbois, but I stand by it. Ton for ton no ships in Japan's inventory are more useful and flexible than the heavy cruisers, and they don't get any more. BBs are fuel pigs. When damaged they take half of forever to fix. Some of them are slow. Their AA upgrades take the other half of forever. CAs can stand with a carrier TF. They can raid with no fear of anything but BBs and TBs. They can run when they have to. They soak up shells at landing beaches and suppress CD. Also, they are the prettiest ships Japan ever designed. So it's fun to sink them. [:)]
I am also, at base, a sub guy. I love my subs. I spend inordinate amounts of time cosseting them, moving them, looking at their COs, many of whom are boyhood pals of mine. I knew about Mush Morton before I ever heard of Mickey Mantle. So when they do well I am happy. A lot of this AAR will talk about subs. It is my feeling that many PBEMs who decry subs in the game just don't play them very well. I hope to change the perception that they can't gut Japan's economy, as they did in RL.
Hey, I love BBs for the awesome power of their guns, but you'll get no disagreement from me about CAs, especially the Japanese ones. Their gunnery and torpedo work is excellent, and the Atagos even have depth charges which they use on a par with the IJN's best DDs. [ Historically they had DCs, but to place such a valuable ship at risk and try to outmanuever a sub that can turn almost on its own length is just not realistic]. Only their AA seems to be weak.
Although this game seems to treat the Mogami class [Suzuya is one] as a bit fragile, they were in fact pretty tough. Witness the collision and bombing that Mogami had at Midway and managed to survive. http://ww2db.com/image.php?image_id=13663
Then she survived bomb damage in the raid on Rabaul [or was it Truk?]. Repaired again she survived [barely] the hurricane of shells at Surigao Strait, collided with Nachi on retirement, and then was finally sunk by follow up bombing by carrier aircraft.
Kumano displayed similar toughness after damage in the Battle off Samar and warded off dozens of attacks by aircraft and subs before torpedo bombers finally got her weeks later in a small port. [&o] http://ww2db.com/ship_spec.php?ship_id=C41
Even Halsey gave her his grudging admiration.
No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth
In all of my PBEM games, I declared "national holidays" whenever I sank a Japanese CA. Not a BB. Not a CV. Those heavy cruisers are the backbone of the Japanese navy, and there are only 18 of them.
"Rats set fire to Mr. Cooper’s store in Fort Valley. No damage done." Columbus (Ga) Enquirer-Sun, October 2, 1880.
In all of my PBEM games, I declared "national holidays" whenever I sank a Japanese CA. Not a BB. Not a CV. Those heavy cruisers are the backbone of the Japanese navy, and there are only 18 of them.
I sort-of agree; I think the Kongos are the most useful non-CV ships in the IJN, since they have the same multi-role flexibility as the CAs.....they are just bigger. But point taken.
The IJN CAs are very valuable. Much more so than the IJN CLs, which are much, much less combat capable.
In one of my scenario Coral Sea PBEM games, Furutaka was detached from her surface task force near the tip of P/NG and vectored towards an American SCTF that was approaching. In a series of running night engagements, she single handedly sank Minneapolis and another CA with torpedoes and brutalized another 2-3 escorting DDs. She was a force of nature. I loves me some Jap heavy cruisers. [&o]
As an aside, in addition to-of course-any Allied carrier (particularly early war 'name recognition' types), I always enjoy sinking the Minneapolis. It's my poke in the eye of classic Minnesotan passive-aggressive behavior.
