Tank Penetration

[Mobius]

In our complicated tank armor/gun model it isn't easy to determine the best ammo to use on a tank. To sort this out I wrote a little program that finds the exact chance that a shell will penetrates a particular tank excluding tracks.
Starting with the T-34/76 Model 1941.

Pen %
AP or APHE v T-34/76 M1941
9 - 46.9
8 - 30.2
7 - 19.4
6 - 13.5
5 - 7.3

APCR v T-34/76 M1941
12 - 63
11 - 52.6
10 - 50.3
9 - 32.3
8 - 25.7
7 - 18.1
6 - 11.5
5 - 3

HEAT v T-34/76 M1941
9 - 38.5
8 - 26.7

[Mobius]

AP, APHE v Panther A
18 - 68
17 - 61.4
16 - 54.5
15 - 50.3
14 - 39.1
13 - 27.7
12 - 22.7
11 - 17.4
10 - 13.3
09 - 7.9
08 - 6.5

APBC v Panther A
18 - 72
17 - 65.5
16 - 61.4
15 - 54.5
14 - 41.3
13 - 33.3
12 - 24.6
11 - 17.7
10 - 12
9 - 8.3
8 - 6.5

APCR v Panther A
18 - 57.6
17 - 50.9
16 - 44.1
15 - 37.5
14 - 30.7
13 - 24.6
12 - 18.2
11 - 13.6
10 - 9.4

[rickier65]

this is probably a dumb question, but what is the number on the left?

Thanks!
Rick

[Mobius]

That's the penetration number.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

That's the penetration number.

I must be pretty dense today. If that's the penetration number then how do I read the chart? ie

Pen %
AP or APHE v T-34/76 M1941
9 - 46.9
8 - 30.2
7 - 19.4
6 - 13.5
5 - 7.3

doe this read that there is a 46.9 % chance to penetrate 9cm, but only a 30.2% chance to penetrate 8cm?

Thanks
Rick

[Mobius]

9 - 46.9
Would mean when your gun using AP or APHE says it penetrates 9 cm then it has a 46.9% of penetrating a T-34/76.
When using APCR and it shows 9 cm of penetration it only has a 32.3% of penetrating a T-34/76.
From the front that is.

[Mobius]

Now for those early war German tanks.
AP, APHE v Panzer III J
9 - 75.4
8 - 67.1
7 - 53.5
6 - 40.3
5 - 24
4 - 8.3

APBC v Panzer III J
9 - 75.1
8 - 68.2
7 - 53.5
6 - 37.9
5 - 16.1
4 - 8.6

This has bolted armor which has a random weakness.
AP, APHE v Panzer III H
8 - 64.3
7 - 53.6
6 - 44.2
5 - 31.9
4 - 17.8

APBC v Panzer III H
8 - 64.6
7 - 50.1
6 - 40.5
5 - 31.4
4 - 14.1

[Ratzki]

Would not the type of shell chosen be a result of what the gunner is trying to accomplish on any given shot, more then just the straight penetration chances of a particular round. If bracketing the target the gunner might wait till he has found the best odds of hitting the target before loading up his best Killing round so not to waste precious ammunition. A shot vs a target with little chances of killing might warrent the best that the gunner has just to have a chance at survival. Over all, though, I would bet that the good stuff was used up rather quickly though as there is no such thing as overkill when one's own life is on the line.

[Mobius]

That's right. The to-hit is not taken into account in this calculation. Neither is the destructive factor of the shell (D number). But this a start in that reasoning. It might give us a guide to a better AI.

[Ratzki]

So how are you thinking that the shell choice equation should read?

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: Ratzki
So how are you thinking that the shell choice equation should read?

Right now the shell choice only compares the base penetration to the armor at a limited number of locations to weigh the choices. But it doesn't use the Variable Penetration table to give penetration odds to further define the weight. Also, maybe thinking about a cut-off percent to-hit for firing if the ammo goes below a level. We have that now, but maybe more degrees of levels would be an improvement.

Some of these things may be too much info to be known in a FOW world and it may make it seem like you are playing against Big Blue.

[Ratzki]

Would something like a "threat level" be more what you are looking for to avoid the God like play? The higher the "threat" the greater the odds at using a better penetrating round. I wonder what a real person would do when presented with round selection, would your choice be made on your chances of KO'ing the target or the targets chances of KO'ing you.