What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? Now allowed for Oloren!

[M60A3TTS]

It is nice to see you getting the hang of pocket-making. Bravo.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

It is nice to see you getting the hang of pocket-making. Bravo.

Well, about time I think most (including me) would say [:D]
Thanks.


Terje

[Tophat1815]

So 3 guards rifle divisions and a cavalry corps have shownup eh? He best be careful,while your infantry reduces the pocket,your rail repair units move forward and your mobile divisions rest and pull maintenance he is setting up your next targets at end of July. So far he has no depth behind those divisions/corps along with plenty of brigades still on the front.

[Schmart]

Great stuff! Extra ration of rum for Terje [:D] Can you do a rough before and after Russian strength analysis to see how much was actually in that pocket?

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

So 3 guards rifle divisions and a cavalry corps have shownup eh? He best be careful,while your infantry reduces the pocket,your rail repair units move forward and your mobile divisions rest and pull maintenance he is setting up your next targets at end of July. So far he has no depth behind those divisions/corps along with plenty of brigades still on the front.

Well, that is the PLAN at least [:D]

Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Schmart

Great stuff! Extra ration of rum for Terje [:D] Can you do a rough before and after Russian strength analysis to see how much was actually in that pocket?

Yikes, I allready have 3 bottles of Cpt.Morgan Spiced on my shelves. Guess I better start drinking more [:D]
Yeah, I can post an OOB before and after the pocket is eliminated, no problem.



Terje

[terje439]

Turn 56 aka Turn of BAH!

Overall
So, the USSR launched one attack and opened the pocket again. Resealed, but still not 100% happy with it. The problem is that the pocket is so darned big that it ties down alot of units just to contain it. Anyway, we launched 55 attacks this turn, scoring 5 helds, 30 retreats, 18 routs and 2 shatters.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
0.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
aprox 250.

Losses
USSR : 102.000 troops, 1.331 guns, 147 AFVs, 156 AC.
Axis : 45.000 troops, 381 guns, 98 AFVs, 79 AC.

USSR units destroyed
1 rifle division, 1 rifle brigade.

German pools
Manpower : 531
Vehicles : 197.531
Armaments : 148.315
Hiwi : 2

[gingerbread]

You should consider splitting the pocket. No doubt some of the units you attack to do that will rout out of the pocket, but it's much to big to be destroyed in one go even if fully isolated.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

You should consider splitting the pocket. No doubt some of the units you attack to do that will rout out of the pocket, but it's much to big to be destroyed in one go even if fully isolated.

Yes, I have been considering it, and if it breaks again, I will, if not split it, atleast let my panzer/mechs push SW to force the USSR units apart from each other.


Terje

[glvaca]

ORIGINAL: terje439

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

You should consider splitting the pocket. No doubt some of the units you attack to do that will rout out of the pocket, but it's much to big to be destroyed in one go even if fully isolated.

Yes, I have been considering it, and if it breaks again, I will, if not split it, atleast let my panzer/mechs push SW to force the USSR units apart from each other.


Terje

What you need to try and do is increase the distance between the pocket and the outside. That means attacking to the East.
The pocket itself can be held pretty easily on the inside (ie. facing the surrounded troops). On the outside, you need to push and create space. That's where you need the best and most troops.

Nice work!

[janh]

Awesome job, Terje. One of the most impressive pockets I ever saw. Curious as to how many units will add to the casualty list by the end. With that you've really turned around this game it would seem. Quite a show of skill, you'll have to pass on the "poorest Axis player" award I fear. [;)]

After blizzard you made some quite daring moves and create some breaches, especially down south. Seems like this is one example showing there's hope even if the summer 41 campaign goes well below average. In less than 10 turns you pushed the Red Army back by 150 miles or so in most areas, that's not that much slower than a year before... and chewed up a lot of units. That's already a lot better than I would have bet it ever to go at this stage. *scratches head* That makes me wonder whether Pelton will also succeed with his winter withdrawal strategy... might depend on whether the opponent follows so closely.

Another thing I noticed is how ordered and strong the opposition is you faced by turn 11-12 across the board. Hard to break, as you noticed, but possible. Looks very reasonable for the Red Army, though, if not to say realistic compared to what the Germans did face. After all, not for no reason the front went static before breaking the land bridge (and before sending PG2 to Kiev). Apparently in this game it makes a huge, very huge difference if you loose 3-4 turns within the first 8 ones? Most if not all games where the Axis got stuck, either mud, or unlucky rolls, or isolation of Panzers caused a number (>>2) turns time loss before the Djenpr around Kiev and the Smolensk sector were taken, usually after turn 11-12ish or so then. All these AARs show the Red Army putting up organzied lines again. The other bunch of AARs on the fast limit, like Michaels or Peltons typical ones, saw the Djenpr and landbridge or the Pskov region overrun by turn 7-8ish. Obviously 3-4 "faster" turns means the reinforcement schedule is overtaken by the Germans, and Russian lines in these AARs are thin and look widely spread out. The tempo seems to have a huge impact. Any thoughts?

[Walloc]

Since every one so cheerfull and supportive... [;)]

Hi Terje,

Where is the real Terje? and what have u done to him?[:D]

Any how glad to see that ur game as in skillz are progressing nicely. A far cry from the 42 campaign of last game. What can u say, attacking is every thing in this game.
Thats a nice AP drain and i guess that there was a reason to play on after the abysmal 41 campaign [;)]


Kind regards,

Rasmus

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: glvaca

What you need to try and do is increase the distance between the pocket and the outside. That means attacking to the East.
The pocket itself can be held pretty easily on the inside (ie. facing the surrounded troops). On the outside, you need to push and create space. That's where you need the best and most troops.

Nice work!

Although I agree in theory, in reality I simply do not have the CV needed in my panzer/mechs topush east atm. Untill I get inf into the ring, I cannot push east.


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: janh

Awesome job, Terje. One of the most impressive pockets I ever saw. Curious as to how many units will add to the casualty list by the end. With that you've really turned around this game it would seem. Quite a show of skill, you'll have to pass on the "poorest Axis player" award I fear. [;)]

After blizzard you made some quite daring moves and create some breaches, especially down south. Seems like this is one example showing there's hope even if the summer 41 campaign goes well below average. In less than 10 turns you pushed the Red Army back by 150 miles or so in most areas, that's not that much slower than a year before... and chewed up a lot of units. That's already a lot better than I would have bet it ever to go at this stage. *scratches head* That makes me wonder whether Pelton will also succeed with his winter withdrawal strategy... might depend on whether the opponent follows so closely.

Another thing I noticed is how ordered and strong the opposition is you faced by turn 11-12 across the board. Hard to break, as you noticed, but possible. Looks very reasonable for the Red Army, though, if not to say realistic compared to what the Germans did face. After all, not for no reason the front went static before breaking the land bridge (and before sending PG2 to Kiev). Apparently in this game it makes a huge, very huge difference if you loose 3-4 turns within the first 8 ones? Most if not all games where the Axis got stuck, either mud, or unlucky rolls, or isolation of Panzers caused a number (>>2) turns time loss before the Djenpr around Kiev and the Smolensk sector were taken, usually after turn 11-12ish or so then. All these AARs show the Red Army putting up organzied lines again. The other bunch of AARs on the fast limit, like Michaels or Peltons typical ones, saw the Djenpr and landbridge or the Pskov region overrun by turn 7-8ish. Obviously 3-4 "faster" turns means the reinforcement schedule is overtaken by the Germans, and Russian lines in these AARs are thin and look widely spread out. The tempo seems to have a huge impact. Any thoughts?

Yes, I am now leaning towards that a non-perfect T1 and T2 by the Axis = fail unfortunately.
I think it has less to do with the reinforcement schedule and more with the time it takes to dig in and get a proper defense organized.
But then again, I still DO play a crappy Axis game, so no wonder my -41 was bad


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Walloc

Since every one so cheerfull and supportive... [;)]

Hi Terje,

Where is the real Terje? and what have u done to him?[:D]

Any how glad to see that ur game as in skillz are progressing nicely. A far cry from the 42 campaign of last game. What can u say, attacking is every thing in this game.
Thats a nice AP drain and i guess that there was a reason to play on after the abysmal 41 campaign [;)]


Kind regards,

Rasmus

Hey there Rasmus.
Well, not sure my skills are progressing that much (if you look at my -41 campaign^^). But there is ALWAYS a reason to keep playing, if for nothing else, then just for the love of gaming [:)]


Terje

[Tophat1815]

Need some more closeup pics of the pocket corridor and whats happening north and south of it. Did any of those guards divisions participate in the reopening of the pocket?

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Need some more closeup pics of the pocket corridor and whats happening north and south of it. Did any of those guards divisions participate in the reopening of the pocket?

No, he used a cav corps + 2 normal inf divs and some artillery SUs, but only after he bombed Grossdeutchland 8 times. It was enought to make it retreat.


Terje

[Tophat1815]

Well if and I really do mean "if" he reopens the pocket he'll need more than that now to pull it off. Not sure he really wants to put his best units in that kind of position,but I really hope he does.[:D]

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Well if and I really do mean "if" he reopens the pocket he'll need more than that now to pull it off. Not sure he really wants to put his best units in that kind of position,but I really hope he does.[:D]

See below [;)]

[terje439]

Turn 57

Overall
Finally we can start Operation Better Dead Than Red. The pocket held, and we start the process of eliminating it. The good thing is that this also freed up alot of units as the pocket diminished in size, and we were able to switch our weaker units to the rear, and attack eastwards with some of our units. Granted we only got a few hexes east, but it is enough for now, as that put some pressure on the USSR, and it even threathens some more units. If the USSR remains where they are, they will lose more units, so I anticipate a USSR writeoff of the pocket now. The USSR did launch one attack in an attempt to reopen the pocket, but the attack failed. We on the other hand launched no less than 210 attacks, for a result of 18 helds, 115 retreats, 13 routs, 1 shatter and 63 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
I'll go with the aprox 250 number. Hard to be sure as my recons did not spot them all.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
134 spotted. Think there are still some hidden units in there, but not sure.

Losses
USSR : 556.000 troops, 7.420 guns, 496 AFVs, 160 AC.
Axis : 51.000 troops, 500 guns, 138 AFVs, 46 AC.

USSR units lost
43 rifle divisions, 1 guard rifle division, 5 tank brigades, 33 rifle brigades, 2 naval rifle brigades, 1 AT artillery brigade (675 AP).

Partisans hunted down
4

German pools
Manpower : 567
Vehicles : 204.525
Armaments : 153.139
Hiwi : 6