Well, at least it was nice theory...
It seems AVIATION SUPPORT have some specific code for unloading. I have tried it with VEHICLE, AFV, and INFANTRY WEAPONS setting. In small, friendly ports (lvl 1, and 2 in Malaya), they abolutely refuse to unload. Docked or not. Different devices, of the same type, but even larger unload without problems (Motorized Support, or tanks). It does not even unload from AKs. What is weird, they seems to have no problem with assaulting beach in enemy bases. They unload normally in that cases [&:]
I have discovered, that I forgot to change BETTY transport factory, so there is new Scenario 31 file. Also, after changes to capacities, both Chichi Jima, and Amami Oshima were in orange, so I have added some supply there.
Lastly, I have discovered, that I-6 have plane capacity, but no GLEN. Different pages say different things about this submarine, but tracing TROM shows, that in 1940 aircraft installation was removed, and in 1942 it seems submarine was changed into some form of transport (around 40 tons of goods, and 40 passengers). Probably losing some torpedo tubes in process (it mentions only 2 torpedoes after one of supply runs). So I-6 is also changed. Also, it seems game gives both J1, and J2 SS types too much fuel.
(Almost ) Historical MOD
Moderators: wdolson, MOD_War-in-the-Pacific-Admirals-Edition
RE: Curious case of I-6
It seems replacement rate for Japanese planes seems to NOT working at all, if production is turned on. Strange, it works fine in smaller Scenarios. And it surely is not fault of lack of engines [X(]
It is a well known fact, that nobody EVER have seen Japanese bomber shot down any Allied fighter in AE (which is weird, because I remember in WITP I had several aces in Recon Groups). I am not sure, I even seen damaged enemy fighter, in any encounter. The main suspect would be 7mm MG, as this is the main defensive armament of most Japanese planes.
I made some experiments with this:
First, I have increased effect (from 2 to 3). This dos not seems to change anything.
Then, I also increased penetration (from 1 to 2). This also did not seem to do anything.
Then, in desperation I changed range, effect, and penetration to 5! And... it also does not produced any hits.
Considering, that most damage Allies done is by 4Es, and they are armed with .50 cal, I just exchanged Japanese 7mm, for Allied .50, and... it still does not changed anything.
Well, maybe time, or strike sizes were too small. After all in one of my games, after month there are only 3 Allied bombers with kills, and two of them are Hudsons (which means, that plane toughness is not a factor).
In the meantime, I also realised, that somehow NATEs/CLAUDEs on sweep seems to NOT do any damage. They seems to have some influence on CAP, but that should accumulate with defensive AA fire. Anyway, this seems strange, because OSCAR Ia definitely works fine on sweep, and it have identical armament.
The only problem I could think of, was penetration, which is equal 1 for 7mm, and this is exactly number for armor for most Allied planes. Since plane armor, actually do not represent literal armor for airframe, penetration shold NOT be factor, for most hits.
I increased it by ONE, and effect was surprisingly immediate. More than 30% of sweeps end with destroyed Allied plane (and 95% of it seems to cause exactly ONE destroyed plane, no damages). Suddenly TOP PILOTS list have half of it filled with NATEs, and other half with ZEROs (with some additions of OSCARs, and CLAUDEs).
And... in several hundred air battles, I have found just ONE example, which could indicate, that with this modification it can be possible to defensively shot down Allied fighter one day:
It is a well known fact, that nobody EVER have seen Japanese bomber shot down any Allied fighter in AE (which is weird, because I remember in WITP I had several aces in Recon Groups). I am not sure, I even seen damaged enemy fighter, in any encounter. The main suspect would be 7mm MG, as this is the main defensive armament of most Japanese planes.
I made some experiments with this:
First, I have increased effect (from 2 to 3). This dos not seems to change anything.
Then, I also increased penetration (from 1 to 2). This also did not seem to do anything.
Then, in desperation I changed range, effect, and penetration to 5! And... it also does not produced any hits.
Considering, that most damage Allies done is by 4Es, and they are armed with .50 cal, I just exchanged Japanese 7mm, for Allied .50, and... it still does not changed anything.
Well, maybe time, or strike sizes were too small. After all in one of my games, after month there are only 3 Allied bombers with kills, and two of them are Hudsons (which means, that plane toughness is not a factor).
In the meantime, I also realised, that somehow NATEs/CLAUDEs on sweep seems to NOT do any damage. They seems to have some influence on CAP, but that should accumulate with defensive AA fire. Anyway, this seems strange, because OSCAR Ia definitely works fine on sweep, and it have identical armament.
The only problem I could think of, was penetration, which is equal 1 for 7mm, and this is exactly number for armor for most Allied planes. Since plane armor, actually do not represent literal armor for airframe, penetration shold NOT be factor, for most hits.
I increased it by ONE, and effect was surprisingly immediate. More than 30% of sweeps end with destroyed Allied plane (and 95% of it seems to cause exactly ONE destroyed plane, no damages). Suddenly TOP PILOTS list have half of it filled with NATEs, and other half with ZEROs (with some additions of OSCARs, and CLAUDEs).
And... in several hundred air battles, I have found just ONE example, which could indicate, that with this modification it can be possible to defensively shot down Allied fighter one day:
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Gridley380
- Posts: 464
- Joined: Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:24 pm
RE: Curious case of I-6
I wouldn't push too hard to allow IJ bombers to shoot down US fighters - it was extraordinarily rare in real life as well as in the game.
The Babes mods seem to have fixed the US bomber ace problem - at least I almost never see my 4Es get kills.
The Babes mods seem to have fixed the US bomber ace problem - at least I almost never see my 4Es get kills.
RE: Curious case of I-6
Some time ago I have written about modelling SHINANO by first producing empty hull, and then allowing player to convert it either into CV, or BB. The obvious problem is to set date for HULL production, as once it gets into conversion, it can not be accelerated (it also do not use NAVAL Points anymore). Thinking of it - it is actually possible to calculate that date:
Shinano reconstruction began around June 1942, and took until October 1944. That could mean 2 years, and 4 months, BUT...
descriptions also say, that construction was originally scheduled for early 1945, and it was accelerated after Battle of the Philippine Sea. Acceleration in-game-terms doubles construction speed, so if there was 3 MONTHS of acceleration, actual date of ship arrival should be 3 months from October 1944, so January 1945. That means 2 years, and 7 months.
And this number is actually maximum, which should be allowed for HULL construction, because any additional day would allow player to potentially accelerate ship beyond what current model allows (assuming it will be accelerated whole time). Not quite historical, because you have to accelerate on the beginning of production, not the end.
Overall, my calculations shows 20 JULY 1943, as HULL PRODUCTION DATE (plus few days, because I do not know, when conversion actually began)
Anyway, the maneuver area is pretty small. 7mm MG have PENETRATION 1, and EFFECT 2, while 0.50 cal have PENETRATION 2, and EFFECT 3. So, to keep 7mm worse, only ONE of those points can be increased by ONE.
I could eventually increase them both, and lower some other statistics (like range, or accuracy), but extensive battle tests by NEMO, in his modified DOWNFALL Scenario, concluded, that neither accuracy, nor range have much influence on bombers defensive fire.
Shinano reconstruction began around June 1942, and took until October 1944. That could mean 2 years, and 4 months, BUT...
descriptions also say, that construction was originally scheduled for early 1945, and it was accelerated after Battle of the Philippine Sea. Acceleration in-game-terms doubles construction speed, so if there was 3 MONTHS of acceleration, actual date of ship arrival should be 3 months from October 1944, so January 1945. That means 2 years, and 7 months.
And this number is actually maximum, which should be allowed for HULL construction, because any additional day would allow player to potentially accelerate ship beyond what current model allows (assuming it will be accelerated whole time). Not quite historical, because you have to accelerate on the beginning of production, not the end.
Overall, my calculations shows 20 JULY 1943, as HULL PRODUCTION DATE (plus few days, because I do not know, when conversion actually began)
It is possible that either large number of bombers is needed, or "formation bonus" will trigger on some date, because in stock I also do not see many kills in early war.ORIGINAL: Gridley380
I wouldn't push too hard to allow IJ bombers to shoot down US fighters - it was extraordinarily rare in real life as well as in the game.
The Babes mods seem to have fixed the US bomber ace problem - at least I almost never see my 4Es get kills.
Anyway, the maneuver area is pretty small. 7mm MG have PENETRATION 1, and EFFECT 2, while 0.50 cal have PENETRATION 2, and EFFECT 3. So, to keep 7mm worse, only ONE of those points can be increased by ONE.
I could eventually increase them both, and lower some other statistics (like range, or accuracy), but extensive battle tests by NEMO, in his modified DOWNFALL Scenario, concluded, that neither accuracy, nor range have much influence on bombers defensive fire.
RE: Curious case of I-6
New Scenario 36 is ready
Mostly tidying up. I have changed upgrade paths for some units, so extra planes will fit also with PDU OFF. The most important change, is that NELL units now upgrade only into G4M1-12 model, not initial G4M1, so Japan is forced to use NELLs (and their weak torpedo) for several months longer.
Also, I have finally implemented Shinano as HULL for conversion. Much cheaper (arrives in mid-1943), but conversions takes more than 400 days. It arrives with FOUR air groups (additional small recon), and all her groups are REPLENISHMENT groups (the only such on Japanese side). It also can carry 120 planes - in 1944, Japan would have already some Carriers sunk, so lets give them some deck to put bought back airgroups. Shinano have NO extra aircraft/torpedo ordnance.
And of course, ALL 7mm, and .30 cal MGs have now penetration 2 (even ground based).
HARBIN have extra TOJO (not quite historical, but I needed place to produce first model), and engine factories. RisingSun have accidently discovered, that HARBIN had quite large production of both planes, and engines. Even doing some research.
All New Guinea/Rabaul area invasions are deleted. I could not find a single reference of landings in December (in fact, most took place in April). Also there are already Japanese troops in Bangkok. They should arrive there day later, but I do not see a way to set them into strategic mode at the beginning of the Scenario. There was also TWO extra doubled Japanese units, and since OOB is short of two Construction Battalions in the first wave to Malaya, I have exchanged them.
Mostly tidying up. I have changed upgrade paths for some units, so extra planes will fit also with PDU OFF. The most important change, is that NELL units now upgrade only into G4M1-12 model, not initial G4M1, so Japan is forced to use NELLs (and their weak torpedo) for several months longer.
Also, I have finally implemented Shinano as HULL for conversion. Much cheaper (arrives in mid-1943), but conversions takes more than 400 days. It arrives with FOUR air groups (additional small recon), and all her groups are REPLENISHMENT groups (the only such on Japanese side). It also can carry 120 planes - in 1944, Japan would have already some Carriers sunk, so lets give them some deck to put bought back airgroups. Shinano have NO extra aircraft/torpedo ordnance.
And of course, ALL 7mm, and .30 cal MGs have now penetration 2 (even ground based).
HARBIN have extra TOJO (not quite historical, but I needed place to produce first model), and engine factories. RisingSun have accidently discovered, that HARBIN had quite large production of both planes, and engines. Even doing some research.
All New Guinea/Rabaul area invasions are deleted. I could not find a single reference of landings in December (in fact, most took place in April). Also there are already Japanese troops in Bangkok. They should arrive there day later, but I do not see a way to set them into strategic mode at the beginning of the Scenario. There was also TWO extra doubled Japanese units, and since OOB is short of two Construction Battalions in the first wave to Malaya, I have exchanged them.
Where are crews?
I wanted to change squads upgrade dates, according to dates of TOE tables from BAYONETSTRENGTH website, but I have also discovered, that it seems there is somehing missing in squad sizes:
Taking as example Japanese squads - they were actually NOT that big, but their firepower also includes "Knee" Mortars, from GD squad, and their crews. By comparison - same calculation should be used for other side.
That is not big problem for Commonwealth forces, as they only have 2 in mortar, with crew of 3 in platoon, and I am not even sure it was issued with ammo other than smoke, but something is seriously missing from US squads. Their firepower rises, but it does not go with increase of their size. This extra firepower is delivered from extra weapons at company level, and it was issued with their own crews (well, at least in most cases). Just take a look at Marine Regiment strength:
Series D have 24 extra men for support weapons, Series E increased it to 35, and Series F to 64!
Here is my shot at it. Numbers are quite conservative, as I left some men out (as they are represented as Support Squads), and no men from HQ are included. First change is for squad size (weight), and second for availability dates. Overall first upgrade is generally earlier, but second is much later:
952 AIF Inf Section 42 11->12 4201 4212
953 AIF Inf Section 43 11->12 4212 4405
954 AIF Inf Section 44 11->12 4405 -
992 Canadian moved to 4308
1000 Brit Inf Section 44 10->11 4411 -
1002 Brit Inf Section 43 10->11 4302 4411
1101 USA Rifle Squad 13->15 4112 4204
1102 USA Rifle Squad 42 13->15 4204 4308
1103 USA Rifle Squad 43 13->15 4308 4411
1104 USA Rifle Squad 44 13->15 4411 -
I am not sure what 44 upgrade represents. I am guessing it is July 1944 issue of extra automatic weapons, but it was ad-hoc emergency upgrade in Normandy, because of Germans firepower advantage, and I am not sure it was even implemented in other theatres. Anyway, since there was some shifting in front priorities from September, I delayed this change for few months.
1106 Parachute 10->15
1113 USMC Rifle Squad 13->14 4112 4305
1114 USMC Rifle Squad 43 13->15 4305 4404
1115 USMC Rifle Squad 44 13->19 4404 -
1116 Raider 10->14
As you can see, with time Marine units, despite their firepower increase, are not that desirable from stacking limits point of view.
Taking as example Japanese squads - they were actually NOT that big, but their firepower also includes "Knee" Mortars, from GD squad, and their crews. By comparison - same calculation should be used for other side.
That is not big problem for Commonwealth forces, as they only have 2 in mortar, with crew of 3 in platoon, and I am not even sure it was issued with ammo other than smoke, but something is seriously missing from US squads. Their firepower rises, but it does not go with increase of their size. This extra firepower is delivered from extra weapons at company level, and it was issued with their own crews (well, at least in most cases). Just take a look at Marine Regiment strength:
Series D have 24 extra men for support weapons, Series E increased it to 35, and Series F to 64!
Here is my shot at it. Numbers are quite conservative, as I left some men out (as they are represented as Support Squads), and no men from HQ are included. First change is for squad size (weight), and second for availability dates. Overall first upgrade is generally earlier, but second is much later:
952 AIF Inf Section 42 11->12 4201 4212
953 AIF Inf Section 43 11->12 4212 4405
954 AIF Inf Section 44 11->12 4405 -
992 Canadian moved to 4308
1000 Brit Inf Section 44 10->11 4411 -
1002 Brit Inf Section 43 10->11 4302 4411
1101 USA Rifle Squad 13->15 4112 4204
1102 USA Rifle Squad 42 13->15 4204 4308
1103 USA Rifle Squad 43 13->15 4308 4411
1104 USA Rifle Squad 44 13->15 4411 -
I am not sure what 44 upgrade represents. I am guessing it is July 1944 issue of extra automatic weapons, but it was ad-hoc emergency upgrade in Normandy, because of Germans firepower advantage, and I am not sure it was even implemented in other theatres. Anyway, since there was some shifting in front priorities from September, I delayed this change for few months.
1106 Parachute 10->15
1113 USMC Rifle Squad 13->14 4112 4305
1114 USMC Rifle Squad 43 13->15 4305 4404
1115 USMC Rifle Squad 44 13->19 4404 -
1116 Raider 10->14
As you can see, with time Marine units, despite their firepower increase, are not that desirable from stacking limits point of view.
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Oberst_Klink
- Posts: 4922
- Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:37 pm
- Location: Germany
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RE: Where are crews?
inqistor,
Bayonet Strength is a smashing website for TO&E. I sometimes use SPWW2, for adapting playable
and still historicity accurate OOB and TO&e.As far as I know, they use(d) the TO&E form SPWAW
for WiTE, perhaps even for WitP.
Klink, Oberst
Bayonet Strength is a smashing website for TO&E. I sometimes use SPWW2, for adapting playable
and still historicity accurate OOB and TO&e.As far as I know, they use(d) the TO&E form SPWAW
for WiTE, perhaps even for WitP.
Klink, Oberst
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Rising-Sun
- Posts: 2238
- Joined: Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:27 am
- Location: Clifton Park, NY
- Contact:
RE: Where are crews?
Nice, look like you been busy working on this. I know most of us wanted the realistic as possible mod there can be. You should get a medal for this heh.
RE: Where are crews?
I checked Bradley, and he writes, that they got reduction for Infantry Replacements, in November 1944. From 80000 to 67000 (but I am not sure this includes Italy front). I do not want to research deeper, but considering early war planning:
Pacific was supposed to get 1/3rd of Europe strength. That means 40000 Infantry per month for Pacific (in-game this is represented by 80 squads). Assuming, that those 13000 was moved to Pacific, not reduced in US, that would give us extra 26 squads per month, for "USA Infantry Squad 44", assuming again, that those numbers do not include Marines replacements.
Both games are made by the same guy, so TOE exchange would be no surprising [:D]
I was playing Mega Campaign few weeks ago, and was wondering if they somehow implemented reduction of light weapon crews with time. Nations generally began war with 2-3 assistants for every LMG, and light mortar, and it was reduced to just ONE man, as war progressed. Maybe cutting for ROF, or ammo?
Pacific was supposed to get 1/3rd of Europe strength. That means 40000 Infantry per month for Pacific (in-game this is represented by 80 squads). Assuming, that those 13000 was moved to Pacific, not reduced in US, that would give us extra 26 squads per month, for "USA Infantry Squad 44", assuming again, that those numbers do not include Marines replacements.
ORIGINAL: Oberst_Klink
Bayonet Strength is a smashing website for TO&E. I sometimes use SPWW2, for adapting playable
and still historicity accurate OOB and TO&e.As far as I know, they use(d) the TO&E form SPWAW
for WiTE, perhaps even for WitP.
Both games are made by the same guy, so TOE exchange would be no surprising [:D]
I was playing Mega Campaign few weeks ago, and was wondering if they somehow implemented reduction of light weapon crews with time. Nations generally began war with 2-3 assistants for every LMG, and light mortar, and it was reduced to just ONE man, as war progressed. Maybe cutting for ROF, or ammo?
RE: Where are crews?
I just stumbled upon your mod today, inqistor. Sounds great, but I have some questions:
1) I downloaded the zip file from post 2, unpacked it and dropped its contents into SCEN folder of the game. I can now choose the scenario 31 from the list of scenarios. I ran the first turn, saved it and loaded into the Tracker. I can see the reduced cargo capacities for ships, PH airfield is smaller but I cannot see any additional 10 Allied bomber in Phillipines, no new 18 Bolos in pools and I have no new 300 extra training fighters in airgroups/pools on map or arriving. Am I doing something wrong with the scenario installation?
1) I downloaded the zip file from post 2, unpacked it and dropped its contents into SCEN folder of the game. I can now choose the scenario 31 from the list of scenarios. I ran the first turn, saved it and loaded into the Tracker. I can see the reduced cargo capacities for ships, PH airfield is smaller but I cannot see any additional 10 Allied bomber in Phillipines, no new 18 Bolos in pools and I have no new 300 extra training fighters in airgroups/pools on map or arriving. Am I doing something wrong with the scenario installation?
RE: Where are crews?
I do not see anything wrong. I have checked version on my PC, and even downloaded one from forum, and all seems to be the same. What do you see in-game? Maybe it is Tracker glitch?
Overall - what begins in PI are all in units. I overloaded some of them to allow planes to be destroyed on ground, and get the weird replacement effect (if unit is overloaded some planes tends to trickle back to pool). There are no new Allied air units, and only few Chinese planes arrive with convoy. Everything is made using replacement dates, and values.
To make it easy - check if there are 18 BOLOs in pool, and if your P-36 replacement rate is 145. The only thing I can think of is that you had Scenario numbered 31 earlier, and somehow planes file was not overwritten...
Overall - what begins in PI are all in units. I overloaded some of them to allow planes to be destroyed on ground, and get the weird replacement effect (if unit is overloaded some planes tends to trickle back to pool). There are no new Allied air units, and only few Chinese planes arrive with convoy. Everything is made using replacement dates, and values.
To make it easy - check if there are 18 BOLOs in pool, and if your P-36 replacement rate is 145. The only thing I can think of is that you had Scenario numbered 31 earlier, and somehow planes file was not overwritten...
RE: Where are crews?
Thanks! Looked again and it fits. I have 145 replacement Mohawks. As for B-10s, I misread number "10" for "1", but there are 10 new B-10s that start damaged. As for the Chinese aircraft convoy, what is its ETA?
PS. Is there a way to properly name the Hurricane unit in Colombo? Right now it is just "Unit 3310"...
PS. Is there a way to properly name the Hurricane unit in Colombo? Right now it is just "Unit 3310"...
RE: Where are crews?
They shows in one of the first convoys. There is some display glitch, and there are no plane name (only number), when convoy is in queue, but you can definitely see the planes, when it is on the map. I have no idea how to fix it.ORIGINAL: Yaab
Thanks! Looked again and it fits. I have 145 replacement Mohawks. As for B-10s, I misread number "10" for "1", but there are 10 new B-10s that start damaged. As for the Chinese aircraft convoy, what is its ETA?
Oh yeah, my bad. There are actally two new units in Ceylon [:D]PS. Is there a way to properly name the Hurricane unit in Colombo? Right now it is just "Unit 3310"...
Probably, but I have absolutely NO data about those units, apart of number of Hurricanes in them. There is the same problem with Japanese Ka-1 units, but in this case I do not even have their proper sizes, only area of operation
RE: Where are crews?
OK, noticed something about the Jap attack on PH in the mod:
" 27 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 45cm T91.2 Torpedo, 2 x Additional Ordnance"
What is additional ordnance? Another torpedo maybe? Japan just sank five US BBs at Pearl...
" 27 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 45cm T91.2 Torpedo, 2 x Additional Ordnance"
What is additional ordnance? Another torpedo maybe? Japan just sank five US BBs at Pearl...
RE: Where are crews?
5 BBs is very good result. I rarely get more, than one.
This version was made pre-beta, so I used the trick, to simulate additional bombs. If you see "Additional Ordnance" it is actually device with only zeros, it should not hit anything, or made any damage. But, when aircraft will use different mission, the "Additional Ordnance" will be exchanged for additional bombs. In case of KATEs they carry additional 2x60 kg bombs (because against PH they carried 1x250+6x60 - it gives same payload, but I could not get rid of second 250 from torpedo exchange).
In comparison to stock you should get worse results against ships in PH (because torpedo is weaker), but better result against airfield (because there are more bombs used).
Also, some BBs have Float Planes disembarked. Those groups are at base, and you have to load them manually.
This version was made pre-beta, so I used the trick, to simulate additional bombs. If you see "Additional Ordnance" it is actually device with only zeros, it should not hit anything, or made any damage. But, when aircraft will use different mission, the "Additional Ordnance" will be exchanged for additional bombs. In case of KATEs they carry additional 2x60 kg bombs (because against PH they carried 1x250+6x60 - it gives same payload, but I could not get rid of second 250 from torpedo exchange).
In comparison to stock you should get worse results against ships in PH (because torpedo is weaker), but better result against airfield (because there are more bombs used).
Also, some BBs have Float Planes disembarked. Those groups are at base, and you have to load them manually.
RE: Where are crews?
Got it.
"27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb"
Also saw some Lilys carrying 8 x 50 kg against Singapore airfield. Nice.
"27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb"
Also saw some Lilys carrying 8 x 50 kg against Singapore airfield. Nice.
RE: Where are crews?
I have a wild theory (which I am not going to test), that to calculate ground AA fire strength, game just divides penetration, and effect of devices by 10. When you compare those values to aircraft guns, you will discover that suddenly ground guns seems to be at least category lower, that their aircraft calibers, and it gets even worse, for larger guns.
For example 20mm Oerlikon have 15 effect, and 20 penetration (that gives 1.5, and 2), while 20mm aircraft gun have 4 effect, and 3 penetration.
To check what will happen, I changed ALL alternate values for AA, and DP guns to be TWICE their original. It is pretty easy with magic lines. Although I have no idea what first value is used for. Just copy it into alternate columns:
=IF(OR(C2=12;C2=17);T2;0)
=IF(OR(C2=12;C2=17);2*F2;0)
=IF(OR(C2=12;C2=17);2*G2;0)
=IF(OR(C2=12;C2=17);H2;0)
In theory it should be massacre (double damage!), in practice effect is barely visible in combat report, but you surely see greater loses in summary screen. But not that much greater.
I have also another wild theory, that accuracy is just value to compare with plane maneuver rating, so anything above around 20 is just helping to hit fighters, not makes AA gun any better against bombers. I would have to see what will happen to ZEROs in PH strike, with that change.
In attachment there is modifed devices file (from my Scenario 31), just change extension to dat. It should work with all Scenarios (but beta can cause unexpected consequences), which uses original data.
It also includes historical Japanese bombs (defined from slot 1770). I have used:
TM 9-1985-4/TO 39B-1A-11 "Japanese explosive ordnance", and
O-23 "Japanese Naval Bombs"
Overall, Japanes bombs are close (+- 10%) to original database, but there are few exceptions:
1) Japan only had TWO real AP bombs. 500 kg, and 800 kg (used in PH). There is 250kg model, with small booster (later removed, because bomb shattered), but it had quite large explosive charge (over 20%). So anything called SAP is just GP bomb, with minimally better penetration.
2) Penetration is genarally low
3) 800 kg bombs are pretty common (but not that AP type used at PH)
4) Navy had not used any 100 kg bombs (and that creates several problems for Navy planes)
5) I have not included several types of 250kg anti-airstrip bombs, as the only different value, I could think of, was better accuracy, and I am not even sure it is used in ground attacks
For example 20mm Oerlikon have 15 effect, and 20 penetration (that gives 1.5, and 2), while 20mm aircraft gun have 4 effect, and 3 penetration.
To check what will happen, I changed ALL alternate values for AA, and DP guns to be TWICE their original. It is pretty easy with magic lines. Although I have no idea what first value is used for. Just copy it into alternate columns:
=IF(OR(C2=12;C2=17);T2;0)
=IF(OR(C2=12;C2=17);2*F2;0)
=IF(OR(C2=12;C2=17);2*G2;0)
=IF(OR(C2=12;C2=17);H2;0)
In theory it should be massacre (double damage!), in practice effect is barely visible in combat report, but you surely see greater loses in summary screen. But not that much greater.
I have also another wild theory, that accuracy is just value to compare with plane maneuver rating, so anything above around 20 is just helping to hit fighters, not makes AA gun any better against bombers. I would have to see what will happen to ZEROs in PH strike, with that change.
In attachment there is modifed devices file (from my Scenario 31), just change extension to dat. It should work with all Scenarios (but beta can cause unexpected consequences), which uses original data.
It also includes historical Japanese bombs (defined from slot 1770). I have used:
TM 9-1985-4/TO 39B-1A-11 "Japanese explosive ordnance", and
O-23 "Japanese Naval Bombs"
Overall, Japanes bombs are close (+- 10%) to original database, but there are few exceptions:
1) Japan only had TWO real AP bombs. 500 kg, and 800 kg (used in PH). There is 250kg model, with small booster (later removed, because bomb shattered), but it had quite large explosive charge (over 20%). So anything called SAP is just GP bomb, with minimally better penetration.
2) Penetration is genarally low
3) 800 kg bombs are pretty common (but not that AP type used at PH)
4) Navy had not used any 100 kg bombs (and that creates several problems for Navy planes)
5) I have not included several types of 250kg anti-airstrip bombs, as the only different value, I could think of, was better accuracy, and I am not even sure it is used in ground attacks
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- wpd.txt
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RE: Where are crews?
Some more tests:
Doubling Penetration, and Tripling effect increases damages by over 50% (but still less, than 100%).
Accuracy seems to have some impact, probably decreasing with altitude, but even cutting it by 3/4 still decreases number of hits by only 25%. And it seems to NOT influence strafing fighters at all. Even for accuracy 10 they still seems to be hit with the same frequency, as for 51.
Doubling Penetration, and Tripling effect increases damages by over 50% (but still less, than 100%).
Accuracy seems to have some impact, probably decreasing with altitude, but even cutting it by 3/4 still decreases number of hits by only 25%. And it seems to NOT influence strafing fighters at all. Even for accuracy 10 they still seems to be hit with the same frequency, as for 51.
Profiled bombloads
So... The World has not ended, so I have to add new version:
Profiled bombloads for Japanese planes. IT WORKS ONLY WITH LATEST BETA, so Scenario is in FIRST post, not second!
I have not used THAT much sources, but in most cases, at least ONE bombload is historical. You will love all those 800 kg bombs (not, that they are AP type, generally Japanese bombs have now poor penetration)
Allied squads are bigger, and have different arrival dates.
I have also done the same thing to engines, which I made previously for Japanese planes. Including R&D factories already on map, engines are pushed in availability date:
name, number of research factories, months added to availability date
Aichi Ha-60 125 40+80+5 (yes, there are 3 factories, and they research 65 points per month) +6
Kawasaki Ha-60 20 +3
Mitsubishi Ha-42 2 +1
Ha-43 10 +4
Nakajima Ha-44 10 +2
Ha-45 30 +6
New Chinese air units begin in India. Planes were flying from there. They were NOT produced, or assembled in China.
Russians get LOTS of old planes. When they are removed from German front, they slowly arrives in replacement pools (seriously, HUNDREDS of I-15, and such)
Awazisan Maru, and Awajisan Maru exchange positions (wrong, smaller ship in initial invasion TF)
Ships in Manila starts game in appropriate locations, and state. Implemented changes (no ship type means SS):
Ships starting in Bataan:
4238 AS Otus
4632 Sturgeon
4884 S-38
4616 Porpoise
4617 Pike
4618 Shark
4619 Tarpon
4621 Pickerel
Ships starting in repair docks:
3677 DD Peary
3678 DD Pilsbury
4494 AM Bittern
4640 Seadragon
4641 Sealion
Profiled bombloads for Japanese planes. IT WORKS ONLY WITH LATEST BETA, so Scenario is in FIRST post, not second!
I have not used THAT much sources, but in most cases, at least ONE bombload is historical. You will love all those 800 kg bombs (not, that they are AP type, generally Japanese bombs have now poor penetration)
Allied squads are bigger, and have different arrival dates.
I have also done the same thing to engines, which I made previously for Japanese planes. Including R&D factories already on map, engines are pushed in availability date:
name, number of research factories, months added to availability date
Aichi Ha-60 125 40+80+5 (yes, there are 3 factories, and they research 65 points per month) +6
Kawasaki Ha-60 20 +3
Mitsubishi Ha-42 2 +1
Ha-43 10 +4
Nakajima Ha-44 10 +2
Ha-45 30 +6
New Chinese air units begin in India. Planes were flying from there. They were NOT produced, or assembled in China.
Russians get LOTS of old planes. When they are removed from German front, they slowly arrives in replacement pools (seriously, HUNDREDS of I-15, and such)
Awazisan Maru, and Awajisan Maru exchange positions (wrong, smaller ship in initial invasion TF)
Ships in Manila starts game in appropriate locations, and state. Implemented changes (no ship type means SS):
Ships starting in Bataan:
4238 AS Otus
4632 Sturgeon
4884 S-38
4616 Porpoise
4617 Pike
4618 Shark
4619 Tarpon
4621 Pickerel
Ships starting in repair docks:
3677 DD Peary
3678 DD Pilsbury
4494 AM Bittern
4640 Seadragon
4641 Sealion
SBD-4
An interesting fact:
WASP was equipped with Vindicators (although probably not long-range Marine model present in-game) during transition through Panama Canal, and rearmed into SBD-3 only after arriving into San Diego (probably only one group, as first was rearmed at the end of May).
Which led me to rechecking initial productions of both plane models. It may be worth to add some initial Vindicators pool, especially since there were few training groups present (one of them for ESSEX), which could be pushed at front in case of emergency. But more interesting is SBD-3 production. It sems to be exact historical number (although considering few planes in Atlantic, it may be several planes too high), but there is no SBD-4 model in-game. It may be presented as SBD-3, after all there was only change in voltage, but that means, that game is short by 780 SBD-4 (minus Europe tranfers), and since overall production of SBD-5 seems also short by more than 1000 (not that it have any influence on that stage of war), change in factory size seems appropriate.
Considering time of SBD-3 model production, you can safely double factory size (!), and there will be still enough planes left for Europe.
WASP was equipped with Vindicators (although probably not long-range Marine model present in-game) during transition through Panama Canal, and rearmed into SBD-3 only after arriving into San Diego (probably only one group, as first was rearmed at the end of May).
Which led me to rechecking initial productions of both plane models. It may be worth to add some initial Vindicators pool, especially since there were few training groups present (one of them for ESSEX), which could be pushed at front in case of emergency. But more interesting is SBD-3 production. It sems to be exact historical number (although considering few planes in Atlantic, it may be several planes too high), but there is no SBD-4 model in-game. It may be presented as SBD-3, after all there was only change in voltage, but that means, that game is short by 780 SBD-4 (minus Europe tranfers), and since overall production of SBD-5 seems also short by more than 1000 (not that it have any influence on that stage of war), change in factory size seems appropriate.
Considering time of SBD-3 model production, you can safely double factory size (!), and there will be still enough planes left for Europe.