Matrix Should Re-do Third Reich

[Veldor]

Originally posted by Von Rom


Therefore, under the conditions laid out under "Fair Use", the hosting and downloading of the game "3rR" would not be illegal.

Isn't it amazing the lengths some people will go to to justify stealing?

Third Reich, Advanced Third Reich, Computer Third Reich are all owned by Hasbro as the company that purchased Avalon Hill. They are not abadoned titles. Hasbro may very well put out their own updated board game, computer game, or license it out to multi-man or someone else.

It IS protected by copyright law.

The only LEGAL way to offer that software for download is to first notify the LEGAL owner and obtain permission.

I doubt if HASBRO were contacted and made aware of this that they would permit it. And if they did, there wouldnt need to be a discussion or dispute about it..

You can't just make up your own rules about when its legal to download games, music or whatever... Wish it worked that way too but it doesn't..

"Gee I'd never have bought Britney Spear's album so if I download it no one is really losing anything so it's ok" ....

NOPE sorry still illegal..

[jnier]

Originally posted by Von Rom

Sec. 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;

(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;

(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole;

and (4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

So, in the case of 3rR:

1) this abandonware is not commercial;

2) it is a historical computer wargame.

4) it is being given away free and therefore no money is being made.

Number 3 means that 100% of the computer game is being offered. However, in fair use cases the most important factor taken into consideration is number 4. Since the game has been abandoned; since it is being offered free; and since it is not competing with any other similar product; it follows that 3rR has had no impact on the commercial market.

Therefore, under the conditions laid out under "Fair Use", the hosting and downloading of the game "3rR" would not be illegal.

Von Rom,

You're not interpreting the four factor test of fair use in the same way that courts and lawyers interpret it (i.e. case law). Case law (previous copyright rulings) determines how the four factor test for fair use it to be applied, and abandonware doesn't even come close to meeting the fair use test. Again, I'm sympathetic, but what you're saying is incorrect - there has never been any court case in which an "abandonded" work has had it's copyright expire simply because it was no longer supported by the author of the work.

[Von Rom]

Originally posted by Veldor
Isn't it amazing the lengths some people will go to to justify stealing?

Third Reich, Advanced Third Reich, Computer Third Reich are all owned by Hasbro as the company that purchased Avalon Hill. They are not abadoned titles. Hasbro may very well put out their own updated board game, computer game, or license it out to multi-man or someone else.

It IS protected by copyright law.

The only LEGAL way to offer that software for download is to first notify the LEGAL owner and obtain permission.

I doubt if HASBRO were contacted and made aware of this that they would permit it. And if they did, there wouldnt need to be a discussion or dispute about it..

You can't just make up your own rules about when its legal to download games, music or whatever... Wish it worked that way too but it doesn't..

"Gee I'd never have bought Britney Spear's album so if I download it no one is really losing anything so it's ok" ....

NOPE sorry still illegal..

Of course it is protected by copyright law. I never said it wasn't. Under fair use, there are exceptions to exclusive use: The game last came out in 1995. Since then nothing has happened, nada.

In order for the company to claim unfair use of 3rR, especially as it relates to commericial use, they would have to show that they intend to either update the computer version and/or put out NEW computer versions. After 8 years, just how realistic are these assumptions?

Britney Spears still produces music CDs, and therefore I do not advocate downloading her music, because she is still making money from those CDs, and those CDs can still be bought in stores. Her company and she, herself, have never stopped making music, nor have they abandoned their music, nor are they trying to keep the music from the public.

If Third Reich was still available in stores I would buy it.

You are mixing apples and oranges - get your argument straight

[Von Rom]

Originally posted by jnier
Von Rom,

You're not interpreting the four factor test of fair use in the same way that courts and lawyers interpret it (i.e. case law). Case law (previous copyright rulings) determines how the four factor test for fair use it to be applied, and abandonware doesn't even come close to meeting the fair use test. Again, I'm sympathetic, but what you're saying is incorrect - there has never been any court case in which an "abandonded" work has had it's copyright expire simply because it was no longer supported by the author of the work.

I am not saying, nor are the courts saying, that copyright expires. You are not reading my arguments properly (or I'm not being clear on them - LOL).

Copyright exists - period.

Fair use allows for non-exclusive use of copyrighted material.

The four main tests for this "fair use" are covered under the four points I listed earlier. The main test is whether the fair use of a product interferes in the commerical market of that product. Since the game has been abandoned for 8 years, and since there is no market or game for it to compete against, it follows that the game has been abandoned, and is being offered to the public free. There is no claim of ownership by the underdogs. After 8 years Hasbro has made no mention of it; and even after it has been on the underdogs site for several years, nothing has been done to remove it. . .

Frankly, I would love to see a game company, say Hasbro, try to go to court over this issue. From what I have read on the issue, they would lose.

We could argue this issue until we're blue in the face. The courts themselves are evenly split on the issue. An appeals court will hear a fair use case this spring.

You'll note in my very first post that I wanted Matrix to get the rights to this game. I then mentioned that I would gladly pay for a re-make of this game, and that I would even work on it for nothing.

You don't want to download the game - don't. Simple as that. . .

In the meantime try to find a grand WWII European game that has the same scope and detail. Good luck. . .

But you won't find Third Reich in the stores. Nope. Why not? Because the company stopped publishing it. It has not made public any future plans to make another one or even to update it. In fact, the company has removed all existing copies from the public domain. You can't find a copy anywhere. It's gone. . . *Poof* As though it never existed. . . Try as you might, you will NEVER find a copy in a store anywhere. . .

Eight years later. . . nada. . . nothing. . . zip. . .

Oh, yeah, I heard a place called the underdogs is offering it free for download. . .

But then, I think we've been through all that. . .

Cheers!

[Veldor]

Originally posted by Von Rom
In order for the company to claim unfair use of 3rR, especially as it relates to commericial use, they would have to show that they intend to either update the computer version and/or put out NEW computer versions. After 8 years, just how realistic are these assumptions?

The core reason Hasbro acquired Avalon Hill in the first place was because it was a relatively inexpensive way to gain "rights" to all the various titles AH had produced or acquired themselves over the years.

Just because they haven't been as quick to produce or utilize any of them doesn't mean they won't.

You can find any of the original computer game or board game titles on Ebay and at dozens of regular game auctions...

Maybe a better example is good old DISNEY.. Who loves to stop making any money from titles for 10+ years then suddenly puts it back in theatres or back on video then promptly pulls it from video and back into "the vault"... It is theirs to do with as they please, not yours ... Just cuz you can no longer purchase NEW a particular Disney title doesnt legally give you the right to make a free copy of it.

BTW Im not saying you shouldn't have download the game. Truthfully im sure hasbro could give a **** what anyone does with it. Go ahead and download all the albums you want to.. Or grab software off of the newsgroups.. Do whatever you want.

But I don't think you should try to justify it as something legal or promote others to use resources that profit solely off of the work of others.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

The copywrite issue here seems to basically revolve around one detail that is curiously being missed (or under appreciated maybe).

The game is being offered by Underdogs (along with myriad others) by their own choice at the risk of legal repercussions.

Now if I download the game from a web site that has offered it freely and without concern, I feel no remorse zero none whatsoever.
If in doing this, Underdogs gets sued into oblivion, well I guess their decision was a bad one correct? If they do this for several years (as they have), and no one cares enough to sue them into oblivion, then anyone "refusing" to download from them as only obstinantly hurt themselves.

I feel for those out there producing new works that are getting scammed (remember I said I "feel" for them, I still download stuff from KaZaa just the same).

If the person or persons are unhappy about the work being "given away" on peer to peer programs etc, they have to do what every other schmuck has to do, porotect themselves in a court of law. It sucks, tough bananas, welcome to the real world.

If the person or persons has works out there that have been effectively put out to pasture as no longer viable or of sufficient interest, and they do not protect it or wish to protect it, then I could care less if I indulge the opportunity to obtain it for free.

If the work means nothing to the author, then you can bet their claim to copywrite means nothing to me as well.

None of what I have said in this post has ever once referred to any manner of "law" by the way. It's 100% opinion driven.
If I write a book you can bet I will sue you if you violate my copywrite.

But if I create something, I am a firm believer, that regardless of the morass that copywrite law has become, if I don't protect it myself, then I have waived my right to whine. Law or no law. That is the way I see it. That is the way deal with it. And trotting out myriad long winded diatribes on the ethics of my view is unlikely ever going to alter that.

I have a working copy of Allied General. I obtained it as a free download. Can't seem to locate the source anymore. It might be that the owner has since seen to it being removed.
Doesn't make me suddenly concerned at all.
I have a working copy of People's General from the same source (so I thought). It is still there.

Then there are the games I have that were given to me. Original software the person no longer wanted. Is that different I wonder?
I didn't purchase it after all.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Von Rom, your desire for a nice new large map, is that a desire for a nice new map ie the map that was designed for Advanced Third Reich?

I do not know enough about computer games to know if this would be a major challenge to someone, but a map is just a graphic file isn't?

The map for A3R was a superb map image in comparison to the original map. I am unsure if the map is uncompatible with the old rules for that matter. It is mostly more artistic, and has revised placement of charts (that don't waste good terrain), and clarified details ie islands that have been editted etc.

On the subject of which is better TR vs A3R, well that would be like asking if original Steel Panthers is better than SPWaW 7.1 or SPWW2 (latest version). I think for the most part, that everyone will agree A3R is better (but then it probably wasn't available when the decision to make it for the PC was taken).

The notion to combine Rising Sun with it though is very unlikely. This is easy to establish by conferring with any die hard A3R players. The game's naval environment just doesn't make the leap as well from Europe to Pacific. This notion has also arisen in commentaries regarding making Strategic Command for the Pacific.
It seems likely you would have to play one game or the other (but not both as a global unified game).

I have not yet seen many if any designs that are fully global in nature and done well.

Currently World In Flames has made an attempt at going PC. The game has a demo, and alas the demo makes it look like the people that are working on it, have no idea how to make a decent interface. Anyone willing to play that game on the PC would likely find playing the real thing on a table more desirable.

That is the current problem here.

I have World in Flames, Advanced Third Reich, Advanced Squad Leader as well as numerous other "big map" wargames.
As of this moment, the comment "I have no opponents" or the remark "there is no where to play them", still is no competition for the simple truth (whether you want to accept it or not), that these games are yet still easier to play on a table than on a computer.

I have these games, I also have a family etc etc. I am saying that they are easier to play than a computer version. For those that disagree, you are just not trying hard enough I guess.

I would like to see the original TR spruced up and made into a more relevant PC version of A3R I suppose. If done right, I would purchase it.

But there is Warplanner software out there. It's not fully a computer version. But it does allow me to get past the problem of how to play it where nop opponent is concerned.

[jnier]

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
The notion to combine Rising Sun with it though is very unlikely. This is easy to establish by conferring with any die hard A3R players. The game's naval environment just doesn't make the leap as well from Europe to Pacific. It seems likely you would have to play one game or the other (but not both as a global unified game).

A3R and Rising Sun are being combined by GMT games into a behemoth called "A World At War."

http://www.aworldatwar.com/

Looks like it will be a great monster game. I wonder if it will ever get played?

[pasternakski]

Originally posted by Von Rom
pasternakski: What? Little 'ol me? hehe

I always enjoy a good discussion; bending a bow always makes it stronger. . .

I loved the board game. Imagine what could be done with 3rR today? It would be a labour of love. Can you imagine the feedback a company would get from wargamers? Heck, I'd work on it for free. . .

Since the game is basically abandonware, I wonder how tough it would be to get the rights to it?

What I envision for 3rR:

1) New BIG colourful map ala World in Flames;

2) New counters ala TOAW (heck offer many different variations);

3) Mouse wheel support;

4) Re-work the AI;

5) Add new rules;

6) Create a scenario editor for it;

7) Add weather conditions (actually see snow on the map during winter). Heck, PG1 had this back in 1992.

8) Add in lots of new stuff such as partisans, scorched earth, leaders, etc, etc. . .

9) Simpify the turn routines (they can be a bit rigid)

As I mentioned, there is still no game of 3rR's size and scope that is currently on the market. I am willing to put up with its flaws so that I can enjoy a reasonably accurate grand WWII game in Europe.

Well, troublemaker, it seems to me there's precious little discussion to be had on the copyright point. Nobody says that the copyright can't be asserted, but the dual problems of fair use and damages (the game is out of print) preclude success.

Obtaining the rights might be an interesting problem. Hasbro apparently no longer retains them. Avalanche Games must have picked them up in order to produce its John Prados revision of Advanced Third Reich (an effort that, on examination, causes me to mutter bad things under my breath). Avalanche keeps talking on their Web site about publishing computer versions of wargames, but seems to have made little progress. Maybe an A3R port is in the works, I dunno.

Your ideas for a new version are good ones, I think. The map could use some prettification, although making it bigger merely means that the hexes have to get bigger in order to retain their functionality. New counters would be nice, I guess, but the starkness of the old ones helped a lot with identification and keeping them separate from each other visually.

Your number 8 gets into some of the areas where A3R made the most improvements, although I think, given the basic system, you've got to be careful not to make leaders too decisively important. They could unhinge the whole thing. I was rather fond of the way leaders were handled in the (much maligned) Clash of Steel (be sure to check out the Future Edition before criticizing, though, it's remarkably better than the original). They were included in a separate Army HQ unit that exerted a command and control influence on subordinate units (although this was rather loosely represented).

One thing that was a real kick about COS was the mechanized sound track that accompanied your armored units when they moved. It really was, in my estimation, an excellent rendition of WWII in Europe.

Given the rights and the leisure time, I would revise 3R, too, and put it out there to be stolen. Don't any of you guys get any vicarious pleasure over secretly having something valuable that belongs to someone else? Not many AOW posters here, I guess. It must be my criminal mentality surfacing again ... time to get back into a program before I do something REAL bad ...

[Von Rom]

Originally posted by Veldor
The core reason Hasbro acquired Avalon Hill in the first place was because it was a relatively inexpensive way to gain "rights" to all the various titles AH had produced or acquired themselves over the years.

Just because they haven't been as quick to produce or utilize any of them doesn't mean they won't.

You can find any of the original computer game or board game titles on Ebay and at dozens of regular game auctions...

Maybe a better example is good old DISNEY.. Who loves to stop making any money from titles for 10+ years then suddenly puts it back in theatres or back on video then promptly pulls it from video and back into "the vault"... It is theirs to do with as they please, not yours ... Just cuz you can no longer purchase NEW a particular Disney title doesnt legally give you the right to make a free copy of it.

BTW Im not saying you shouldn't have download the game. Truthfully im sure hasbro could give a **** what anyone does with it. Go ahead and download all the albums you want to.. Or grab software off of the newsgroups.. Do whatever you want.

But I don't think you should try to justify it as something legal or promote others to use resources that profit solely off of the work of others.

Again, you are mixing your arguments. I do not advocate stealing or warez, or trying to get something for nothing.

Disney has a reputation for doing as you say. Therefore, we will always have their products with us; no need to have to download them.

In a similar vein, I do not advocate anyone downloading music, movies, or anything else that can be purchased in stores.

AH was bought by Hasbro which was bought by Infogrames. AH was a wargame company. Infogrames markets games like CivIII and MoO3 and Roller Coaster tycoon. After 8 years, if you think Infogrames is going to re-produces 3rR than you really need to think about that one for a moment. . . :rolleyes:

The courts have ruled very clearly on the issue: someone cannot use copywrite as a justification to withhold a product from the public, especially if it has some historical or other redeeming qualities.

[Von Rom]

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
The copywrite issue here seems to basically revolve around one detail that is curiously being missed (or under appreciated maybe).

The game is being offered by Underdogs (along with myriad others) by their own choice at the risk of legal repercussions.

Now if I download the game from a web site that has offered it freely and without concern, I feel no remorse zero none whatsoever.
If in doing this, Underdogs gets sued into oblivion, well I guess their decision was a bad one correct? If they do this for several years (as they have), and no one cares enough to sue them into oblivion, then anyone "refusing" to download from them as only obstinantly hurt themselves.

I feel for those out there producing new works that are getting scammed (remember I said I "feel" for them, I still download stuff from KaZaa just the same).

If the person or persons are unhappy about the work being "given away" on peer to peer programs etc, they have to do what every other schmuck has to do, porotect themselves in a court of law. It sucks, tough bananas, welcome to the real world.

If the person or persons has works out there that have been effectively put out to pasture as no longer viable or of sufficient interest, and they do not protect it or wish to protect it, then I could care less if I indulge the opportunity to obtain it for free.

If the work means nothing to the author, then you can bet their claim to copywrite means nothing to me as well.

None of what I have said in this post has ever once referred to any manner of "law" by the way. It's 100% opinion driven.
If I write a book you can bet I will sue you if you violate my copywrite.

But if I create something, I am a firm believer, that regardless of the morass that copywrite law has become, if I don't protect it myself, then I have waived my right to whine. Law or no law. That is the way I see it. That is the way deal with it. And trotting out myriad long winded diatribes on the ethics of my view is unlikely ever going to alter that.

I have a working copy of Allied General. I obtained it as a free download. Can't seem to locate the source anymore. It might be that the owner has since seen to it being removed.
Doesn't make me suddenly concerned at all.
I have a working copy of People's General from the same source (so I thought). It is still there.

Then there are the games I have that were given to me. Original software the person no longer wanted. Is that different I wonder?
I didn't purchase it after all.

Les the Sarge 9-1: Actually Les you have hit upon somethig that is in law.

I feel the same way: Everyone knows these games are on the underdogs - some companies choose to have their old games removed; others don't. If it doesn't bother these companies, why should it bother me?

After all, the discussion in this thread is about reviving an old game.

[Von Rom]

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Von Rom, your desire for a nice new large map, is that a desire for a nice new map ie the map that was designed for Advanced Third Reich?

I do not know enough about computer games to know if this would be a major challenge to someone, but a map is just a graphic file isn't?

The map for A3R was a superb map image in comparison to the original map. I am unsure if the map is uncompatible with the old rules for that matter. It is mostly more artistic, and has revised placement of charts (that don't waste good terrain), and clarified details ie islands that have been editted etc.

Les: The current map in 3rR is huge. If left the same size, I would like to see its graphics brought up to speed along the lines of those of A3rR, or maybe World in Flames. There is just so much that can be done in this area with a couple of dedicated people.

[Veldor]

Originally posted by Les the Sarge 9-1
Now if I download the game from a web site that has offered it freely and without concern, I feel no remorse zero none whatsoever.
If in doing this, Underdogs gets sued into oblivion, well I guess their decision was a bad one correct? If they do this for several years (as they have), and no one cares enough to sue them into oblivion, then anyone "refusing" to download from them as only obstinantly hurt themselves.

Les, this is exactly what people don't understand about services like KAZAA and so forth. YOU are not removed from all wrong because your not providing the service. It doesn't matter WHERE you retrieve a pirated game or pirated music. TRUE you are not AS guilty, that being you are most likely not redistributing it or selling copies of it, but you are still obtaining ILLEGAL copies of COPYRIGHTED works. Much like possession of child porn is still a crime though not as bad a crime as distributing it.

Not many get prosecuted for it, only a few Kazaa related ones, but that will change soon due to pressure from software companies and especially the music industry.

Another thing people don't realize is how much LOGGING ISP's do. Some is required by law, most they do on their own to protect themselves in case they are sued by "interpreted law" for providing a conduit for illegal activities and so on..

Most of the above is demonstrated in a recent cnet article where a judge ordered an ISP to disclose the identity of a Kazaa EndUser:

http://news.com.com/2100-1023-981449.html?tag=fd_top

The point is.. While its a fairly safe thing to do at the moment, soon the "bad judgement" you refered to could end up being your own...

After all in America NOTHING is free. If you are getting something for nothing, most likely you are breaking some law in the process. And if there is no law, once lawmakers catch on, they make one. That is a fundamental part of our society.

[pasternakski]

Originally posted by Veldor
After all in America NOTHING is free.

Hmm ... seems the legal advice on this thread has been pretty gratuitous, although one generally gets what one pays for (another fundamental part of our society).

[Veldor]

Originally posted by pasternakski
Hmm ... seems the legal advice on this thread has been pretty gratuitous.

You are correct.

Pirating and other related activities are now done by the masses. Those who do it are mostly unaware of potential consequences. It's every individuals right to do as they please, at least here in America.

I just don't think one should go about encouraging utilizing sites or services without also mentioning what you might be getting yourself into.

That way it's a decision made by that individual to obey or ignore the law. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse".

And I do think people should be "alarmed" by the recent Kazaa End-User lawsuit. If nothing else it confirms to the public what those of us in the industry have long known... That most activity and traffic is logged and a court can merely "order" an ISP to divuldge who was doing what when and where.

Proceed with caution.

[Von Rom]

Originally posted by Veldor
You are correct.

Pirating and other related activities are now done by the masses. Those who do it are mostly unaware of potential consequences. It's every individuals right to do as they please, at least here in America.

I just don't think one should go about encouraging utilizing sites or services without also mentioning what you might be getting yourself into.

That way it's a decision made by that individual to obey or ignore the law. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse".

And I do think people should be "alarmed" by the recent Kazaa End-User lawsuit. If nothing else it confirms to the public what those of us in the industry have long known... That most activity and traffic is logged and a court can merely "order" an ISP to divuldge who was doing what when and where.

Proceed with caution.

Hi

The purpose of this thread was to advocate Matrix obtaining the rights to an old computer wargame - 3rR. Frankly, I would like to see this game added to their stable of wargames.

The thread was then high-jacked by others who railed against piracy. . .

I agree about KaZaa: it is riddled with Spyware. If anyone has it on their hard-drive get rid of it ASAP. Even after you delete it, it will still leave software on your hard-drive. Use something like "Adaware", a free harddrive cleaner to get rid of anything left on your harddrive. You can find it using google.

[Veldor]

Originally posted by Von Rom
Hi

The purpose of this thread was to advocate Matrix obtaining the rights to an old computer wargame - 3rR. Frankly, I would like to see this game added to their stable of wargames.

The thread was then high-jacked by others who railed against piracy. . .

I agree about KaZaa: it is riddled with Spyware. If anyone has it on their hard-drive get rid of it ASAP. Even after you delete it, it will still leave software on your hard-drive. Use something like "Adaware", a free harddrive cleaner to get rid of anything left on your harddrive. You can find it using google.

The thread wasn't high-jacked. You promoted illegal piracy from a self-proclaimed "technically illegal" website.

If you want to keep the discussion to Third Reich, don't post links for illegal downloads.

[pasternakski]

Originally posted by Veldor
The thread wasn't high-jacked. You promoted illegal piracy from a self-proclaimed "technically illegal" website.

If you want to keep the discussion to Third Reich, don't post links for illegal downloads.

What are you, a traffic cop?

[Veldor]

Originally posted by pasternakski
What are you, a traffic cop?

I didn't start the discussion, nor the anti-piracy stuff. I simply chimed in.

Alot of people on these forums would not know that there is anything wrong with Kazaa or other "free download" sources such as the website mentioned.

If you've ever created something then you know how much it sucks when someone steals it.

That guy who used Kazaa... Wasnt anyone special... He hasn't been sentenced last I heard but was up for 5 years in jail and up to 50,000 in fines per count..

That could be anyone here and the "novices" should be warned against the consequences of those actions. The penalties and chances of incurring them are only going to get worse..

I'm trying to notify and help people...Not turn them in.. Besides right now you only get a reward for European Corporations (not even US) that you turn in. If you got rewards for US corporations or individuals Id be a millionaire tommorrow. 5,000 to 10,000 per company or individual turned in and fined more than 50,000.

[Fred98]

Les said:

“that these games are yet still easier to play on a table than on a computer”

Yes Les I agree with that. Those games are easier to play on a table.



Quote

“A3R and Rising Sun are being combined by GMT games into a behemoth called "A World At War."

I wonder if it will ever get played?”

I would love to play it but if it is not a PC version I won’t have the time.

As for bigger hexes, at one time I photocopied the map board at 120% normal size. The large hexes made the game easier to play because there was more space between counters – less chance of bumping the neighbouring hex.

In my view the current graphics of 3R are adequate for a game of this type. It was games of this era that led to the phrase “war gaming is like chess with 1,000 pieces”. Which accurately sums up 3R. In this case a LESS colourful map is better. When playing chess, if it colourful you cannot think.