When?

[CrusssDaddy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

It's not all about you.

warspite1

Yes it is - he is a child. He wants it and he wants it now!

Actually I might be a child, comparatively. Informal show of hands please: who here is an AARP member, or of an equivalent non-U.S. organization? Steve, Bo, I see your hands up. Raise them higher everyone else, so I can count...

[Extraneous]

ORIGINAL: werwolf

You are right is "not good advertising for Matrix"
And after all no one has not answered yet about a probable release date.

A release date is up to Matrix Games. No one else can answer that.

If for instance, Steve finished developing the game yesterday, tomorrow, next year, and etc. Matrix Games would still set the release date.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

It's not all about you.

warspite1

Yes it is - he is a child. He wants it and he wants it now!

Actually I might be a child, comparatively. Informal show of hands please: who here is an AARP member, or of an equivalent non-U.S. organization? Steve, Bo, I see your hands up. Raise them higher everyone else, so I can count...

warspite1

Nooooo. You are a child full stop.

You fire off all kinds of accusations and comments, ranging from the ridiculous to the rude, with no thought other than to troll. If trolling is not your intention and you are genuine then please answer the questions put to you. No? Thought not. Pathetic. Bye.

[yvesp]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

"How do they do it?!?!?!?" you lot must ask yourselves of these other developers and publishers who routinely team up to churn out new titles on a yearly basis. "It must be black magic!" How else to explain Paradox cranking out three HOIs, two Victorias, and a rabble of Dark Ages and Medieval-themed strategic titles since MWiF was announced.

Answering only those titles I know: simple, they all use the absolutely identical engine ; it even goes down to the same save game format. Or almost. Each title is a small delta from a cousin, with a different timeframe. Graphics, music etc get changed, but not the core. So Paradox walks quietly with small hops from one title to the next. Not to mention the way Paradox takes your money away by releasing minor updates that everybody still wants (I lost the count of EU3 addons, 4 or 5 ?) : this gives them bucks to staff the next project!

In addition, Paradox is a company with a lot of developpers. Here we deal with what basically is a solo man project. Obviously, this makes things a bit longer! That choice can be discussed to no end, since we do not know how it came to be that way. That's the main cause why the product has not been out for years. If the project had been staffed from start with but 3 developpers, the game would have been finished by now! Even now, there would be room for one additional developper as I explained in a previous post. At this stage, Steve's job shouldn't be to crush bugs, but instead he should be heading for yet missing functionalities.

Yves

[sth1119]

Wish the best for Steve with his health. I'd like to see this game but i agree that live is a priority.

[Anendrue]

OK so lets take a step *back and try to sum all this up.

1. We all agree to disagree.
2. A release date has not been announced by Matrix.
3. The game is still in development.

With that said. The *stress heaped upon Steve by all this can not be good for his health.
Therefore I am stepping back and asking all sides to step back and consider what we may have done.


* edit spelling

[vonRocko]

edit.

[yvesp]

ORIGINAL: abj9562
With that said. The stress heaped upon Steve by all this can not be good for his health.
Therefore I am stepping back and asking all sides to step back and consider what we may have done.

As for me, I have already stated that Steve's health is infinitely more important than the game.
So the game will get released when it's ready. No need to hurry!
Just keep reading the monthly reports and write positive (i.e. constructive) feedback.

But it's likely that the real source of stress is out of this thread, namely within his contract.
Who knows how he gets paid as long as the game is not finished ?

Still, no need to add to this here, I fully agree.

Yves

[pzgndr]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
He is a child. He wants it and he wants it now!

Do you have a wargame pending development? Are you waiting for a wargame from a legal settlement? If you need your wargame now, contact J.G. Wentworth. They just might be able to help you get your wargame sooner. Call Now For a Free, No-Obligation Quote. [:D]

Seriously. Some folks need to chill out, big time. Enjoy the holidays. Etc. [8|]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: yvesp

ORIGINAL: abj9562
With that said. The stress heaped upon Steve by all this can not be good for his health.
Therefore I am stepping back and asking all sides to step back and consider what we may have done.

As for me, I have already stated that Steve's health is infinitely more important than the game.
So the game will get released when it's ready. No need to hurry!
Just keep reading the monthly reports and write positive (i.e. constructive) feedback.

But it's likely that the real source of stress is out of this thread, namely within his contract.
Who knows how he gets paid as long as the game is not finished ?

Still, no need to add to this here, I fully agree.

Yves

warspite1

On hearing of Steve's continued health concerns, any normal human being would react the way the Beta testers and the well wishers generally on the forum have reacted; with a bit of compassion, concern for Steve, and with a bit of perspective - MWIF is a GAME.

Those that can't see that? Well, best left unsaid.

Although Steve monitors every thread, hopefully on seeing the nonsense stirred up by that inadequate individual, he will have switched off and gone and done something more useful - like recuperate.

[bo]

ORIGINAL: CrusssDaddy

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

It's not all about you.

warspite1

Yes it is - he is a child. He wants it and he wants it now!

Actually I might be a child, comparatively. Informal show of hands please: who here is an AARP member, or of an equivalent non-U.S. organization? Steve, Bo, I see your hands up. Raise them higher everyone else, so I can count...

I don't join organizations crussdaddy but I am old enough to be a member, my hand is raised.

With no knowledge of programming but trying to use common sense, when you as a programmer have to follow all the rules of a well known board game it must be a nightmare.

All of the above mentioned games with good this and good that are not board games converted to the computer, one board game that comes to mind is 3RD Reich, great board game but poorly done for the computer which I do have on my computer and play now and then. I guess my point is that in complexity in programming these two games I would hazard a guess that MWIF is far more harder to code than 3RD Reich was.

Even though both programming companies had to follow the rules of the board game, Steve has global war to concern him not just the European war. Other companies that make the above games like Ho1 and Gary Grigsby war games can make up anything they want to as far as rules, units, battle results etc. And you either buy it or you don't.

If I felt that crussdaddy was trolling I would tell him to go jump into hell, please! But I do not believe he is, he is just frustrated and he is expressing his frustration where he is allowed to on the MWIF open forums, the word is OPEN. Insults though should not be tolerated.

Two years ago I was where he is now in using harsh words to express my dislike for how long the game is taking to complete and the dreaded AI controversy, it got me nowhere except headaches. As abj knows I decided to end the harshness.

But I personally do not think that the younger posters here do not understand where we are coming from [no smileys] I mean that.
I do not know how old crussdaddy is but I am up there. I believe with my heart and soul that I will be to old to enjoy this great game from Steve and Matrix if this goes on much longer, so time to us became the essence and has led to some harsh statements not out of meanness but out of frustration. I have no option left but to wait.

Bo

[Patton_71]

As we all have shared the agony of this development process for this game, I feel that the only real ability for us to influence the powers that be is to use the power of the consumer: buy somewhere else.

I have stated in previous posts my conviction of not purchasing any products from Matrix until after MWIF is released. I will continue to do so, as this may be the only way left we have to open Matrix's eyes and get the job done.

I encourage others to do so, as this will (possibly) motivate Matrix. So far I have spent about $100 on gaming software and supplies ( I also do F2F boardgaming still), including Convoys in Flames. I know this may seem like a drop in a bucket, but if just 100 of us were to do the same, that would equal $10000 in lost Matrix revenue. Maybe that would get their attention. There are products that Matrix has that I am definitely interested in. But, I will not consider a purchase any of those titles until after MWIF is released, maybe.

So please, other readers of the forum, let Matrix know that you will take your dollars, pounds, yen, kroner, etc. and spend them elsewhere, and let them know this. Hopefully, matrix will see that their actions (or lack thereof) here are not only costing them business, but helping the competition.

[Anendrue]

As another old man I too raise my hand.

Yes Bo has definitely turned over a new leaf and has boldly gone where no man .... Oops that senility thing again. [:D]
Our thanks to Bo for maintaining a calm and serene pace. [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]
(smileys just for you Bo)

[bo]

ORIGINAL: abj9562

As another old man I too raise my hand.

Yes Bo has definitely turned over a new leaf and has boldly gone where no man .... Oops that senility thing again. [:D]
Our thanks to Bo for maintaining a calm and serene pace. [:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)][:)]
(smileys just for you Bo)

Senility HUH! have you been talking to my wife abj? I am so senile a decent nursing home would never take me. No new leaf, just the last leaf on the tree hanging on for Spring when I will be renewed with new life because MWIF will be finished by then. [&o]

Bo

[bo]

ORIGINAL: Patton_71

As we all have shared the agony of this development process for this game, I feel that the only real ability for us to influence the powers that be is to use the power of the consumer: buy somewhere else.

I have stated in previous posts my conviction of not purchasing any products from Matrix until after MWIF is released. I will continue to do so, as this may be the only way left we have to open Matrix's eyes and get the job done.

I encourage others to do so, as this will (possibly) motivate Matrix. So far I have spent about $100 on gaming software and supplies ( I also do F2F boardgaming still), including Convoys in Flames. I know this may seem like a drop in a bucket, but if just 100 of us were to do the same, that would equal $10000 in lost Matrix revenue. Maybe that would get their attention. There are products that Matrix has that I am definitely interested in. But, I will not consider a purchase any of those titles until after MWIF is released, maybe.

So please, other readers of the forum, let Matrix know that you will take your dollars, pounds, yen, kroner, etc. and spend them elsewhere, and let them know this. Hopefully, matrix will see that their actions (or lack thereof) here are not only costing them business, but helping the competition.

Hi Patton_71, I personally do not think that is a good idea, Matrix puts out decent games for the war gaming public. After seven Years of posts, lately negative, does not move them to help Steve {if Steve needs help} then I do not think boycotting them will bring them to the negotiating table. Remember the forum posters union is not that strong. But then again maybe a new union chairman might help. I nominate for the first union chairman of the United Brotherhood of MWIF posters [UBMWIFP] [&o] to be crussdaddy [;)] Any one second this motion?

Bo

[gw15]

Amazing reading all of the posts in this forum. I'm really not surprised though. crussdaddy my not say things correctly but my opinion is that 80% of the readers of these post agree this project has gone on WAY too long.
I have been following this project from day 1.
I, for sure, have no idea why it has taken so long. I suppose most of you don't either.
But in the end, this is a business.
Matrix's reputation has taken a huge hit with a project that has taken as long as this has. I'd say, an embarressment.
At this point I'm very worried this will not get finished.
If I'm still alive whenever this actually comes out I will buy it because I like the game but there will always be that thought in the back of my mind. "What the heck was the problem?"
If it doesn't come out then VASSAL works just as well.

[Anendrue]

An example of why coding this game is so complex and is taking so much time.

In most wargames there are few rules governing supply. You just simply trace to an area, hex, city, etc.. at a single point in time and you are OK.
So to write a simple supply algorihim takes a few hours to a few days to write, implement, debug, and annotate.

Not so with WiF. There are multiple times to check supply and tons of things that can affect it. Add in 15-30 situations, exceptions, specialty units and 80 oprional rules and you just blew the time frame sky high. Now have that level of complexity present in all aspects of the game and you can appreciate it even more. What Steve is doing is revolutionary, groundbreaking, and most definitely challenging. This is why game companies do not take on the old games. They rely on simple to moderate game engines that have the appearance of complexity. When you write code you can hide the complex and make it seem simple (chess programs) or make the simple appear complex (HOI). With WiF you already know the complexity so there is nothing you can hide in the code. It has to work correctly or it has to be fixed. There is no substitute.

[lomyrin]

I too am an AARPr for many years. At 77 I am fortunate in still being in good physical and mental health and I do expect to play the MWiF game before my number is up. I also still play the boardgame and have been doing so for a very long time.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: warspite1


On hearing of Steve's continued health concerns, any normal human being would react the way the Beta testers and the well wishers generally on the forum have reacted; with a bit of compassion, concern for Steve, and with a bit of perspective - MWIF is a GAME.

Those that can't see that? Well, best left unsaid.

Although Steve monitors every thread, hopefully on seeing the nonsense stirred up by that inadequate individual, he will have switched off and gone and done something more useful - like recuperate.

+1 Mr.W

I have'nt visited this Forum for a couple of weeks, because of Real Life, CTGW, WitP AE etc and I am surprised at some of the vitriolic posts. ( yes you know who you are ).

As Warspite and others have pointed out many times, MWiF will be the greatest game when it is completed, but it is just that; A GAME.

Gentlemen, may I remind you all, certain members need to have the 'Green Button' employed against them to retain your humour and your sense of perspective.

Some posters do not warrant a reply, their posts are just to inflame others under the pretence of 'my voice must be heard', or they are seriously misinformed.

Use your green button. You know it makes sense.

And Steve...best wishes again. I hope your health is improving.

Edit:Grammer

[Anendrue]

ORIGINAL: Empire101

ORIGINAL: warspite1


On hearing of Steve's continued health concerns, any normal human being would react the way the Beta testers and the well wishers generally on the forum have reacted; with a bit of compassion, concern for Steve, and with a bit of perspective - MWIF is a GAME.

Those that can't see that? Well, best left unsaid.

Although Steve monitors every thread, hopefully on seeing the nonsense stirred up by that inadequate individual, he will have switched off and gone and done something more useful - like recuperate.

+1 Mr.W

I have'nt visited this Forum for a couple of weeks, because of Real Life, CTGW, WitP AE etc and I am surprised at some of the vitriolic posts. ( yes you know who you are ).

As Warspite and others have pointed out many times, MWiF will be the greatest game when it is completed, but it is just that; A GAME.

Gentleman, may I remind you all, certain members need to have the 'Green Button' employed against them to retain your humour and your sense of perspective.

Some posters do not warrant a reply, their posts are just to inflame others under the pretence of 'my voice must be heard', or they are seriously misinformed.

Use your green button. You know it makes sense.

And Steve...best wishes again. I hope your health is improving.

Well teach an old dog new tricks. I never bothered to mouse over that little button. thanks for the heads up.