Slaughter on The Eastern Front 15.82 : 1 Ratio

[Peltonx]

Battle of the week was I Corp’s 57,000 men holding the line vs 6 bombing missions and several hundred more planes per ground assault. I of course knew he would be attacking so set a 2 army 3 Corp trap.


Round 1: 9 rifle divisions attack and 22 SU totaling 135,000 troops
Losses GHC 919 SHC 9338

[Peltonx]

Ding Ding Round 2: 9 fresh rifle divisions attack and 17 SU totaling 136,000 troops
Losses GHC 876 SHC 5273

[Peltonx]

Ding Ding Round 3: 9 fresh rifle divisions attack and 21 SU totaling 127,000 troops
Losses GHC 714 SHC 3208

[Peltonx]

And finally ding ding Round 4: 4 fresh Infantry Corp and 5 fresh rifle divisions attack and 25 SU totaling 188,000 troops
Losses GHC 861 SHC 3911

Final ratio is 6.49 : 1

The most amazing thing is that the CV this turn is the same as last turn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So the hex is just as strong as last turn despite 500,000 vs 57,000, probably stronger after I end my turn.

The reserve units have same CV as last turn 5 per unit.

Soaking attacks nerfed.

Big thanks to [&o] SJ

[Ketza]

He is hitting you with too much during his soak off attacks. One division at a time would have the same impact but cost a lot less. Eventually you would lose all your reserves and ammo then "bam" here come the corps.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

He is hitting you with too much during his soak off attacks. One division at a time would have the same impact but cost a lot less. Eventually you would lose all your reserves and ammo then "bam" here come the corps.

Noper.

Reserves will not help until needed one and at this battle I have a possible 15 reserve reactions per turn all with 40+ MP's

So many could react 5 times a turn. Loses are about zip on the reserves. I know he was going to attack here so I recorded the per attack numbers and all the reserves #'s went up. Basicly got stronger. In hex divisions also up or close to same.

My units gain more morale,exp and got stronger. SHC lost a boat load of everything.

It was a trap and worked as the others have in past turns.

Your also wrong about ammo.

I learnt allot from you in the past Katza about defence and am very thankfull, but this set-up trumps the old one by allot.

Soaking attacks have no effect on fire support or reactions.

This has been going on for 4 turns with same results every turn.

SHC 22 wins and 102 loses

SHC winning only 17.7%

You can set traps, ajust frontage to meet possible bulges as per your game with 76mm

I am not even close to having it fully set-up as JS does. My lose ratio is only 3.7 to 1. It should be around 4.5 to 1.

[Ketza]

Well I am certainly watching this game closely. I like your strategic thinking and approach in this game with MT. Its sort of what I was looking to do against 76mm when I switched to a strategic defense in the late summer of 42.

Not getting beat up in the blizzard, having shorter lines and the Soviets not getting morale boosts from the blizzard wins makes a big difference from a total strategic perspective. If you can prove that a solid Axis defense can stop the Soviets long enough to not push you much past the historical front lines in 1944 you may change the way the game is played going forward.

This will hopefully lead to a change in the way victory is defined and change the dynamic of each side taking turns running.

I still think he is attacking you wrong and way too early but I am sorta pulling for you[:D] I love a good defense!

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Well I am certainly watching this game closely. I like your strategic thinking and approach in this game with MT. Its sort of what I was looking to do against 76mm when I switched to a strategic defense in the late summer of 42.

Not getting beat up in the blizzard, having shorter lines and the Soviets not getting morale boosts from the blizzard wins makes a big difference from a total strategic perspective. If you can prove that a solid Axis defense can stop the Soviets long enough to not push you much past the historical front lines in 1944 you may change the way the game is played going forward.

This will hopefully lead to a change in the way victory is defined and change the dynamic of each side taking turns running.

I still think he is attacking you wrong and way too early but I am sorta pulling for you[:D] I love a good defense!

I came up with the strategic plan and SJ 1/2 the tactical. I took what you taught me about (Regiment) reserves, SJ's tactics and added what I had learnt tactically on my own to come up with the over-all tactical defence.

I made a few mistakes now looking back. I think I could greatly improve the over all strategy and be in a much better position then I am in now with the same morale,equipment ect.

So far I beleive if done right its very possible to get a draw even vs a good SHC player. This is my first try so yes it should be an option all GHC consider and the fact of the matter is at some point you will have to defend. This just makes it a hell of allot easy.

[Peltonx]

Check out the first battle on list 12007 to 759

15.82 : 1 ratio



Whos spanking whos butt?

[Michael T]

But you need to look the whole battle for that hex Pelton. 4 attacks, by the end of it the loss rate is around 3.5 to 1. Acceptable losses. You are focusing on failures only. Add all the results of the attacks and the rate is still around 3 or 4 to 1, some turns are better. Yes this reserve thing has made life better for you. But all your propaganda ain't gonna win the war for you [:-]

[Flaviusx]

Michael, here is my problem with what you are doing: it is extravagantly expensive in terms of morale and armament points. It has the potential of delaying your transition over to Red Army 2.0.

It is much much better to pound away with Red Army 2.0 with massive pools backing up any losses at that stage than to throw away those same pools on attacks made by RA 1.5. You are not getting the most bang for your buck here. You are indeed risking a hand to mouth situation down the line rather than replacement pool abundance to press your advantage when you have the toys to do so.

Furthermore, you won't even need soak off attacks by and large once you transition over. You'll start seeing them work in one shot, and that is far more efficient.

A half dozen successful assaults per turn will bleed the Germans to death over a year, while your own morale will go from strength to strength as it won't be getting wrecked. This is a far more sustainable pattern for assaults than these soak off attacks. After September of 1942, your morale norms will go up by 1 every month, so you want to take advantage of that. Soak off attacks make it much harder to do this.

I realize you are concerned that leaving the Axis alone will allow them to build up their pools. But you can burn through that relatively quickly down the line.

You are so close to getting to the point you need to be. It is a matter of 6 months or so. Then, everything will change. If you can just restrain yourself a bit more the payoff is within reach.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

But you need to look the whole battle for that hex Pelton. 4 attacks, by the end of it the loss rate is around 3.5 to 1. Acceptable losses. You are focusing on failures only. Add all the results of the attacks and the rate is still around 3 or 4 to 1, some turns are better. Yes this reserve thing has made life better for you. But all your propaganda ain't gonna win the war for you [:-]

There is no propaganda the ratio was 15.8 to 1.

Over-all 3.5 to 1 is more then acceptable loses.

Its a stalemate.

Why did your OOB drop 120,000 last turn? The only time I have seen that (when poeple are not disbanding units of which there were none in the report) was when TDV attacked to long past the blizzard and ran out of supplies/trucks and was losing 90,000 to 120,000 men a turn just from atrition loses and his OOB was sinking 10k a turn with no combat going on.

I have never seen a drop of 120,000 for no reason.

Same for guns they have been dropping more then 1000 a turn on average for 6 turns.

[Michael T]

You may be right Flav. Before the reserve improvement things were going much better. But I will still attack where opportunity bekons. I just refuse to sit and do nothing.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

I have to admit that the reserve function in this game is beyond silly. In my current game A-game gets 100% reserve activations every battle that is near even odds. Most of the time its 2 units activated. I seriously think every battle in the last few turns has had reserve activations (like 20 a turn) with only battles where I have monster superiority that are not getting reserved.

Should it be this way? Also, I don't think units use mp's on the return trip from activation. Hopefully future versions have a better setup. End Gripe.

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

I have to admit that the reserve function in this game is beyond silly. In my current game A-game gets 100% reserve activations every battle that is near even odds. Most of the time its 2 units activated. I seriously think every battle in the last few turns has had reserve activations (like 20 a turn) with only battles where I have monster superiority that are not getting reserved.

Should it be this way? Also, I don't think units use mp's on the return trip from activation. Hopefully future versions have a better setup. End Gripe.

Without reserve commitments SHC can grind down GHC by March 1943 and be in Berlin before end of 1944 March. not overly historical. The retreat losses of Germans is way to high, so SHC only needs to win 6 battles + per turn. If SHC is winning 20 times a turn GHC gets smoked in 20 turns and cant recover.

I am speaking from exp, not threory as many do on these forums.

Reserve commitments keeps the front static from late 42 to late 43/early 44, the SHC then can easly walk to Berlin by late 44 still.

There alrdy is a SHC I win button asking for a 2nd is going over board and a little to Middle Earth.

Improve your skills by playing a game into 44, unlike 95% of the poeple on boards and you will see winning as SHC is not challenge at all, if you know how.

Its amazing that poeple whine and whine about not winning as SHC in 43, like 44 is not soon enough.

[Peltonx]

The reserve commitment is 33% as it has always been. Poeple have changed frontages of armys so they have 9 chances per turn min for 3 turns.

The SHC is still grinding down GHS it just takes 60 turns instead of 20 without it.

[heliodorus04]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Michael, here is my problem with what you are doing: it is extravagantly expensive in terms of morale and armament points. It has the potential of delaying your transition over to Red Army 2.0.

It is much much better to pound away with Red Army 2.0 with massive pools backing up any losses at that stage than to throw away those same pools on attacks made by RA 1.5. You are not getting the most bang for your buck here. You are indeed risking a hand to mouth situation down the line rather than replacement pool abundance to press your advantage when you have the toys to do so.

Furthermore, you won't even need soak off attacks by and large once you transition over. You'll start seeing them work in one shot, and that is far more efficient.

A half dozen successful assaults per turn will bleed the Germans to death over a year, while your own morale will go from strength to strength as it won't be getting wrecked. This is a far more sustainable pattern for assaults than these soak off attacks. After September of 1942, your morale norms will go up by 1 every month, so you want to take advantage of that. Soak off attacks make it much harder to do this.

I realize you are concerned that leaving the Axis alone will allow them to build up their pools. But you can burn through that relatively quickly down the line.

You are so close to getting to the point you need to be. It is a matter of 6 months or so. Then, everything will change. If you can just restrain yourself a bit more the payoff is within reach.

A little belaboring of a continuous them of mine is in order.
Can anyone tell me how this paraphrasing of Flavius's recommendation is inaccurate to the strategy he is advocating:

"All the Russian player has to do is safeguard morale of his army by not fighting in the early part of the game (except in Blizzard). Once the automatic scripts force-change the Soviet army composition and morale, then all you need to do is chug away at the Germans across the whole front, casualties, rotate Armies in and out of the front lines for morale recovery and to take on replacements, then set out for the front again. Rinse repeat until the German player capitulates."

There's a fair amount of skill involved in optimizing the Soviet army, but it doesn't change the overall strategy employed by the Soviet for best effect.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: Pelton

The reserve commitment is 33% as it has always been. Poeple have changed frontages of armys so they have 9 chances per turn min for 3 turns.

The SHC is still grinding down GHS it just takes 60 turns instead of 20 without it.

Is this for GHC only?

The reason I ask is that in my current game the SHC player is getting between 60-80% activations per turn with an average of 20 attacks per turn. The only time reserves don't activate is when I have overwhelming superiority or extreme luck. Does anyone else notice this?

[AFV]

ORIGINAL: Pelton


There is no propaganda the ratio was 15.8 to 1.

Over-all 3.5 to 1 is more then acceptable loses.

Its a stalemate.

It is propaganda when you only mention the 15.8 to 1 part, and not the overall ratio- which you did not in the original post.
Not that there is anything wrong with that, lol. I'm not commenting if MT is doing the right thing with these attacks or not- I'm just pointing out you are presenting results of one battle and not the overall results. MT could just as easily say woo hoo results are 8.3 :1 German to Soviet losses! (results of final battle for 65,57). And that too would not be representative of the whole picture.

[Peltonx]

Over all ratio's are in the turn by turn thread. Just pointing out a 1942 defence ratio from a very large battle.

You simply don't see that very often.

You can put whatever spin you like on it. A single battle or the hole picture.