Defending Mother Russia Saper vs Harrybanana (No Saper)

[Harrybanana]

T15 Tula Area

Saper has done very little in this area for several turns, but this turn he gassed up (via air supply of course) at least one and probably 2 motorized units. There are several other mobile divisions in the area that I have lost track of. However, since I don’t believe they have done much movement recently I am worried that they may have built up sufficient fuel for an offensive across the major river. I have done what I can to shore up the defences in this area, but my supply of good units is very limited.

Meanwhile Saper has apparently moved most or even all of the mobile forces he had West of Voronezh into the gap North of Voronezh (circled in blue). Whether he is planning to move these units North to attack Moscow or East then South to come at my forces guarding Voronezh from behind I do not know.

[Harrybanana]

T15 Voronezh Area

Except for Saper’s mobile units moving North there was very little action in this area last turn.

[Harrybanana]

T15 South

Saper expands his bridgehead, but I continue to hold my ground. I have no illusion about being able to stop him from taking the 3 towns he needs to activate Army Groups A & B. I simply want to delay him here as long as possible. But I must admit I am getting very nervous. Meanwhile a motorized division heads towards Stalingrad

[Harrybanana]

T15 Rail Net. For those who are interested in such things the next two screen shots are of Sapers rail net.

First the North

[Harrybanana]

Now the South

[janh]

I keep being amazed by Saper's play, it's brilliant. He probably can't pull off that pinching move around Moscow, but if he did... It's a PBEM against a veteran Russian player, and yet he's almost gotten to Stalingrad by October 41. He should be in bad supply so far ahead for the rail heads, but the present logistics model obviously remains pretty generous.

Harry, without trying to be disillusioning, but the next 6 turns are going to be a pain. Perhaps you were just too unlucky with your rolls in the first 8 turns, but the situation looks very scary. Might be you'd better evacuate Moscow slowly to strengthen your flanks, else it is a va-banque gambit? I don't see so much else you can still do. Now would be the time where those extra divisions would be really needed that lack to complete the historical reinforcements.

[molchomor]

Don't think you need to be so worried about Stalingrad or Moscow for that matter as long as they are garrisoned properly? Alot of Sapers actions seem to be focused on establishing a pre-blizzard buffer zone / tearing up rail, which is a nice thing for him as that will protect his weak underbelly (minor axis allies). You will probably not be able to reach those units at all during december if he places them on front sections where Soviet rail is nowhere near.

[hugh04]

Sapper will have a ton of isolated units come mud as they will be more then 100 mp's from a rail head in the south. Put yourself in a position to counterattack hard if that is the case.

Vandev

[Helpless]

He has in just a few turns with very few bombers caused 34 damage to my T34 factories.

Very odd, looks like a bug. I was never able to duplicate this kind of damage with nigh missions. At the start of 1942 campaign all of LW is not able to make such damage to one factory doing night bombing, but taking huge losses.

Would be interesting to get a save prior similar night attack.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: janh

I keep being amazed by Saper's play, it's brilliant. He probably can't pull off that pinching move around Moscow, but if he did... It's a PBEM against a veteran Russian player, and yet he's almost gotten to Stalingrad by October 41. He should be in bad supply so far ahead for the rail heads, but the present logistics model obviously remains pretty generous.

I don't think he'll pull off the pinching move either. Mainly because on T16 he made a full frontal attack on Moscow and advance 3 hexes, cutting off some more of my units. I'll be posting screen shots shortly. However, Saper has already pulled off the pinching move against Moscow in two previous AAR games against experienced Russian players.

Harry, without trying to be disillusioning, but the next 6 turns are going to be a pain. Perhaps you were just too unlucky with your rolls in the first 8 turns, but the situation looks very scary. Might be you'd better evacuate Moscow slowly to strengthen your flanks, else it is a va-banque gambit? I don't see so much else you can still do. Now would be the time where those extra divisions would be really needed that lack to complete the historical reinforcements.

I don't think I have necessarily been unlucky in this game, though a few extra helds (especially one critical one this last turn) would have helped. I will not evacuate Moscow, well at least not yet.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: molchomor

Don't think you need to be so worried about Stalingrad or Moscow for that matter as long as they are garrisoned properly? Alot of Sapers actions seem to be focused on establishing a pre-blizzard buffer zone / tearing up rail, which is a nice thing for him as that will protect his weak underbelly (minor axis allies). You will probably not be able to reach those units at all during december if he places them on front sections where Soviet rail is nowhere near.

I agree, but after this last turn Moscow is looking scary.

[Harrybanana]

T16 Moscow Before Moves

Well I said it would take either a brilliant move on Saper’s part or a stupid one on mine for him to threaten Moscow before T17 and I was right. I would say it was 25% brilliance on his part and 75% stupidity on mine. The brilliance on his part was moving some of his mobile units near Tula to a position SW of Moscow without me noticing. The stupidity on my part was not noticing. I should have guessed he was going to do this as it was exactly what I would have done if I were him.

In any event, below is the screen shot of the Moscow area after recon and some moves. Another 8 units at least will be toast in a couple turns. A couple of them are some of my best units.

[Harrybanana]

Even if I couldn’t have guessed what Saper was doing I should have known if I had paid attention to a couple of Saper’s fuel drops on T15 as shown below. 93 and 92 bombers respectively dropped fuel to the hexes I have circled. Why didn’t I notice this when every turn I have made a point of searching for his air supply drops? I have no answer; but luckily this is not the real War or Stalin would be having me shot right about now. But the war goes on regardless.

[Harrybanana]

T16 Voronezh Area Before Moves.

Saper forced a river crossing. I’ll have to decide if I want to hold here or not?

[Harrybanana]

T16 South Before Moves

Saper continues to expand his bridgehead. Do I stay or run?

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: Helpless

He has in just a few turns with very few bombers caused 34 damage to my T34 factories.

Very odd, looks like a bug. I was never able to duplicate this kind of damage with nigh missions. At the start of 1942 campaign all of LW is not able to make such damage to one factory doing night bombing, but taking huge losses.

Would be interesting to get a save prior similar night attack.

I will be emailing T16 to Helpless for him to look at. But I should qualify my statement that the damage to the Stalingrad T34 factories were caused over only a few turns. In fact Saper has been bombing Stalingrad since turn 7. I just never noticed, my bad. However I stand by my statement that it is only a few bombers. The total number of bombers bombing Stalingrad each turn has ranged from 11 to 57. On 6 of the 9 turns it has been bombed the numbers were between 31 and 35. Note this is the total number of bombers which sometimes were spread over 2 to 5 missions. T16 was especially bad as the damage to the factories increased from 45% to 71% on this one turn alone. Most of the damage was caused by 7 measly Rumanian Potez's which, despite being intercepted by 9 fighters, raised the damage level from 59% to 71%.

[Harrybanana]

I just realized that in addition to bombing the T34 factories in Stalingrad Saper is also bombing the factories in Gorky and in just two turns has caused damage of 38%. Now admittedly he is using a much greater number of bombers, this turn he made 6 bombing runs for a total of 245 bombers. I'll move some fighter squadrons back within interception range, but I doubt they will have any effect. As I only evacuated 3 T34 factories from Kharkov and soon all the factories in Stalingrad and Gorky will be levelled I anticipate having a real tank shortage this game. Something I have never experienced as the Russians before.

I suppose the answer is to move the Stalingrad and Gorky factories. But I first need to evacuate my Moscow factories. Also once I move them I assume Saper will then just switch to bombing other important factories. The end result is I will have to move everything back to the Urals. This is going to put a real crimp in Soviet production of all types.

Oh yeah, I said I was going to email my turn 16 to Helpless for him to look at but he has not responded to my PM as to where I should send my saved game too. Does anyone know his email address?

[gingerbread]

2by3@2by3games.com

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread

2by3@2by3games.com

Thank you gingerbread. I'll post something if/when I hear back from Helpless.

[Harrybanana]

T16 continued

The good news is I remembered this turn to evacuate the Moscow industry. Everything is out now that I want out except the vehicle and HI.

The bad news is I was rushing to finish my turn and send it to Saper so I could get to work and as a result forgot to take my post turn screenshots. Not much to report anyway.

Around Moscow I retreated a few hexes out of the bulge to the SW of Moscow, but otherwise tried to solidify my lines as much as possible. I suspect Saper will use his fueled up motorized divisons to isolate a few more of my divisions. Hopefully he won't bag more than 2 or 3 in addition to the 8 that are already goners. There is really nothing I can do to prevent this aside from abandoning Moscow.

I decided to hold my ground around Voronezh as he does not appear to have any fueled up mobile forces in the area.

I also decided to continue to hold around Rostov. This is a bit riskier as I have lost contact with some of his mobile forces in the area.

Oh yeah, in the Crimea Saper's Rumanians have reached the outskirts of Kerch which I am lightly holding. Wouldn't have been a problem except I forgot to move the industry out of Kerch beforehand. I have reinforced Kerch, but doubt it will hold for long.