Perfection, of a kind, spence (A) vs fcharton (J), no spence, please

[obvert]

I agree that the CV strike looks like a CAP trap. Sucks, as usually you would still get a few though for a hit or two. That said, I've stopped fairly big escorted raids on IJN CVs with a CAP of 50 zeros and shot down ALL bombers as well, so I can't really complain. Jocke does though, probably for good reason. [:)]

Hi Erik

The Oscar flies higher than the Hurricanes, and the group patrol altitude was higher. For some reason the machine decided I couln't get to the max, but the Hurricanes could, on very short notice. Note also that we are not talking about big differential (a few hundred feet).

I agree about the stratospheric sweeps, but I don't think they are the problem here. I would have exactly the same problem at 25 or 20 000 feet. The point seems to be that weather, rate of climb and detection time are indifferent to the defender, and that fighting four time 40 oscars during the same morning won't saturate defenses, so long the fighters didn't coordinate.

Your Oscars look to be coming at 35k. Not max. If you set them to max and they didn't fly that high then that seems like an issue. Because of our HR though I've never tried to fly a plane at max, so I am not really qualified to deal with that one.

I would still say the height is key. The Oscar loses most of it's maneuver advantage at high altitude, and it's slower even than both Hurri models here, so with the speed advantage the Hurris actually in effect become more maneuverable, plus they have much better armament. (If I understand it correctly the speed advantage of it's opponent cuts into maneuver rating of the said plane thus putting it at a disadvantage. Against hurries at low altitude the difference in maneuver is so great they can overcome some of the cut due to speed, but not up high where their maneuver goes from 46 at 15k to 19 at 32k>and the hurry IIc goes from 23 to 15).

As your Oscars also dive to take out lower layers of the CAP, the others keep dive advantage.

Sweeps don't coordinate often, and if they do it's because the airfield is built up, there is an HQ or two, and they the leaders are all high in air skill. Rader was a master of getting this to work, but it's happened maybe 4-5 times for either of us in my game with Jocke in nearly two years.

[font="Trebuchet MS"]
Morning Air attack on Port Blair , at 46,58
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 38,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 41

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 26
Hurricane IIc Trop x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 35000 feet * Your sweep looks to be set to 35k. Is that correct?

CAP engaged:
No.17 Sqn RAF with Hurricane IIc Trop (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 4 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 35600 , scrambling fighters between 32000 and 35600. Group patrol is above you, so even if it's a few hundred feet they get the dive bonus which is huge with the armament and speed advantage already.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 15 minutes
No.135 Sqn RAF with Hurricane IIb Trop (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 4 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 2 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 26000 , scrambling fighters between 26000 and 34000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
No.261 Sqn RAF with Hurricane IIb Trop (0 airborne, 7 on standby, 6 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 3 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 36000 , scrambling fighters between 34000 and 36000. The IIb has a 4x armament advantage over the Oscar Ic, so if the Oscar can't overcome that by taking a few out with the dive and having better maneuver at lower altitudes, it's toast.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 20 minutes
23rd FG/76th FS with P-40E Warhawk (0 airborne, 4 on standby, 3 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 14000 , scrambling fighters to 29000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 12 minutes
[/font]

[fcharton]

ORIGINAL: MAurelius
so if your Netties get mauled - maybe you'll have to fly them at a lower alt....

I certainly should, but then, the point of flying low is often to be able to attack unescorted, or with little escort. Here I have a fairly large escort (comparable in size with the CAP), with good planes, and experienced pilots. I believe it should provide some defense to the bombers, not just add losses to the whole. (And note that escorts pretty much have to fly at the same altitude as the bombers, I never could achieve high cover in the game)

Somehow, this gives the impression that altitude is the only deciding parameter, and that escort is only, can only be, ablative armor.

Again, I'm not really bothered by the fact the raid didn't succeed. Such things happen. But the idea that the escort could almost be wiped out (and still be sent to fly in the afternoon), without a clear technological or numerical advantage for the CAP seems, well, weird.

F.

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: MAurelius

at what altitude are your bombers flying? - and his fighters on CAP?

for example in my current GC I can almost always fly my B-25s without any harm under his CAP - if I keep them at 1000 feet - his fighters fly at 20,000 - so they don't have time to attack before I hit his shipping...

so if your Netties get mauled - maybe you'll have to fly them at a lower alt....

+1

There is difficulty spotting bombers flying low, especially 1k, so reaction from 11k will be slow and they will get through. anything below 7k seems pretty good, but above that they mostly will get smothered by the CAP.

It can all be frustrating, or it can key you into things that were valid tactics in the actual war and the complexity of the situation those actual commanders were facing. And they didn't know why capabilities of the opponents machines as we do now. You can imagine the frustration at using best knowledge up to that time and getting your planes (and more importantly, men) skewered because the enemy was using a new plane or a new tactic.

Although the game is endlessly frustrating, I've learned that if you're persistent you'll usually find a way around what your opponent is doing. It's only rarely the game is the actual issue, and at that point I just throw a few things and curse for a while, close the computer and go for a walk. [;)]

[SqzMyLemon]

Post removed.

[Saros]

Well there are two issues here, the first is that escorts are totally useless at fighting. I don't like it myself but you really just have to get used to it and basically treat escorts as disposable.

With the Oscar sweeps I think the high altitude is having some negative effects upon them. You get a significant fatigue penalty if you are flying your plane above 2/3 of its max height and the long range from Rangoon to Port blair probably means your pilots are arriving exhausted. Dont forget the fatigue totals you see the nest day are after a good nights sleep and dont really reflect the state of the pilots during the actual mission.

[PaxMondo]

Francois,

You're frustrated and think these are bad rolls, but that's not what I'm seeing. A 9 hex sweep (360nm, 720 nm roundtrip) is REALLY long. that's roughly 4 hours. When the IJ did that over Guadacanal, losses were horrendous. You have to expect the same. Why?
1. low durability planes.
2. long distance.
3. high altitude. In one of the updates last year, higher altitudes acumulate more wear and tear.

ORIGINAL: fcharton

Morning Air attack on Port Blair , at 46,58
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 29 NM, estimated altitude 38,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 41

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 26
Hurricane IIc Trop x 9
P-40E Warhawk x 8

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 7 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed
P-40E Warhawk: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 35000 feet *

This first sweep, note that only 13 of 41 planes sweep. That means when they arrived overhead, 28/41 planes were not combat effective. The implincation on the other 13 is that they were barely air worthy, the least amount of battle damage and they are going to drop. And that is likely exactly what happened, one or two hits and they are down. The Hurri's being over their hangars are relatively fresh and Oscars have little armament anyway. Then there are eventually 41 allied a/c against only 13 of yours ... bad odds. Or better to say, you likely had 3 or 4 serial engagements of 1:1 odds, but the allied planes were fresh each time and your were getting worn down more and more each time.

While your pilots were low fatigue, what was the status of the planes. To do a 9 hex sweep, you need your planes in 'new' condition. less than 5% damage to start with. That takes special effort to achieve in your preparations.

ORIGINAL: fcharton
Morning Air attack on Port Blair , at 46,58
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 38,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 20
Hurricane IIc Trop x 8
P-40E Warhawk x 1


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 9 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 35000 feet *

This second sweep is like the first, only 9/36 planes were combat effective. The 9 that did sweep, again as in the first sweep, needed only minimal battle damage to sucumb. Again, they had to face 29 allied a/c ... 3:1 odds against you.

Long range sweeps (anything over 6 hexes) you need to be careful with as the IJ. Your plane durabilities are so low. You can do it, but you have to prepare both planes and pilots to be successful. And in bad weather, a 9 hex sweep might NOT be possible in an Oscar. Bad weather will accumulate more wear and tear faster than clear weather ...

The air combat model is incredibly complex, but generally gives results that you anticipate. These results here are what I would expect, sorry to say.

[PaxMondo]

Referring to your Nettie attack, it is a well known outcome that Netties do NOT do well against any defended naval targets.  I do not know why this is, but in a great number of AAR's and in my experience Netties against CV's with CAP will not hit a thing.  Losses tend to be high as well.
 
Now, Netties as coup-de-grace against CV's who cannot launch CAP work great as do Netties against any type of SAG TF or transport TF.
 
Sorry that you had to confirm this the hard way.
 
I do not know if this extends to Frances or not.  For me, my naval LBA that I move in reaction to allied amphibs is composed of Kate/Jill/Judy from re-constituted CV groups.  These will attack just fine.  I send these in on Day 1, and then will add the Nettie's from farther back on Day 2 or 3 depending upon Day 1 results.  On Day 1, I just have my Nettie groups on NavSearch to drive the DL on spotted groups to 10 and keep it there.

[PaxMondo]

PS: The above two posts are my interpretations, but I'm not the expert.  If you want expert interpretation, drop a PM to LoBaron and ask him to drop in.  He reallly is expert on this.

[fcharton]

Hi Pax,

I understand your points, but I don't think we're on the same page.

First, it wasn't, by far, my first Oscar raid on Port Blair. If such results were expected, you would have seen me rant here several months ago. On the other hand, that this was probably the best planned raid I ever organised (rotated fresh squadrons, checked pilots, changed leaders, gave them lots of rest time, emptied the airfield of other planes, etc...). This is why I see a die roll.

Second, you note that very few Oscars actually swept, but seem to suppose that all Hurries were up in the air. Yet, the raids were detected very late, and no enemies were in the air at the time (bad weather cuts both ways). In the second raid, they had five minutes notice, no plane in the air, about 25 scrambling to 36000 feet. I had 9 fighters on sweep, 9 reported losses, but probably twice as many in reality (19 planes shot down on the combat report, 43 in the turn report, A2A only). So, what happened? The Oscar on sweep nicely waited for the Hurries to take position over them and shoot them, and the combat unworthy planed took their turn at acting as targets? And I am told the Hurries got the bounce, how?

Finally, what about the losses? If most planes couldn't fly to the target, why could they be shot down by enemy fighters that scrambled late. And what's that 10:1 supposed to mean? Midway is 1:2.5, all models told (that means, with the bombers), South Philippines is 1:5, and was considered incredibly unlikely at the time (hence its nickname), and included bombers as well. 10:1 in a dogfight, with equivalent models, really?


Don't get me wrong. I am not trying to say that this raid should have been successful. I don't really care, and I am pretty sure the same weird causes can produce the same weird effects on the other side. What I am saying is that in reality, factors tend to even out. The sweep is at long range, so you have less fighters on target... but less of them can then be shot at. High altitude causes lots of fatigue to your pilots... but makes interception difficult unless you are in the air when the sweep arrives. Bad weather make coordination difficult... and reduces CAP. At the end of the day, one side wins, but losses and damage tend to average, because nothing ever goes perfectly right, or perfectly wrong.

You should see the same averaging effect in models of reality, such as the game engine. You can even prove that the more complex the model, the more balanced the outcomes (that's the idea of "regression to average" in stats), and models that fail to achieve this are sometime said to be "ill conditioned", or "chaotic" (in the sense of "oversensitive to initial conditions").

I believe this is the problem with the air model, and I think this is what Joseph was criticizing as well. In this case, there are reasons why my sweep should be in trouble, and reasons too why the interception should have their own worries. But it looks like at some point in the turn resolution the model decides that "this side has won the engagement", and then proceeds to pile damage on the other, which results in the extreme loss ratios we've all seen. This is my criticism of the model. I am no historian or military specialist, and can't judge whether the model is correct when assuming altitude, or some other factor, is crucial to victory. But I am a bit worried by the tendency the model has to produce extreme results, instead of averaged ones. In real life, extreme events do happen, but rarely. This is not what I see in the game.

Of course, when such rare events happen, we all have the benefit of hindsight, and can point the "cause" of the problem, conveniently forgetting the "non causes". This is a feature of many AAR: you won here because you did that, you lost the battle, because you failed to toggle this button, and I suspect this kind of post-hoc explanation is the cause of many unpleasantness (not on this thread, mind you, and this is not directed at you or other posters on this AAR)


On a game level, and replying to Joseph (read you before you edited, Lemon-san), it sort of makes me think of the legalists, in ancient China, who considered that social stability was the result of a balance between rewards and punishments. If rewards were too generous, or punishment too harsh, states became very difficult to rule, they said.

And they had that cute story about the first person to revolt against the Qin. He was a petty official, tasked with leading conscripts to the border. On their way (near Suchow, in fact), they were delayed by storms, and it soon became obvious that they would be late. But the penalty for arriving late was death, and so, Chen Sheng thought he might as well die in a meaningful way, by revolting against the prince.

This summarises my problem with extreme results. The rewards for being successful is usually too large, and the penalties when things go wrong are too harsh. This might make for good narrative AAR, but it also ends up with a lot of people giving up, after yet another day when a huge victory, or defeat, was decided on one silly factor (and no, this is not how it goes in reality, this is how it goes in hindsight)

Just count the number of AAR, by serious and commited people, that end once one or both players decide that whereas their story might be fun to read, their games are not really interesting to play, because they because futile exercises in "experimenting with this new switch", which can spell massive victories, or terrible defeats.


Right, I'm done with this. I caught a cold yesterday on my way home from Paris, so I played the last turn without thinking deeply. I have retired most of my squadrons from Koepang, moved Oscars in to CAP the base, just in case, and ordered two small groups of Kates and remaining Betties to attack at 1000 feet. It is probably quite obvious to my opponent, so I expect him to close that door, but I can handle a few more losses, and this will be an interesting experiment anyway. The turn has arrived this morning, I will replay and play it tonight (working this morning, and playing the piano this afternoon).

Francois

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: fcharton
Morning Air attack on Port Blair , at 46,58
Weather in hex: Heavy rain
Raid detected at 15 NM, estimated altitude 38,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb Trop x 20
Hurricane IIc Trop x 8
P-40E Warhawk x 1


Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 9 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb Trop: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 35000 feet *

This second sweep is like the first, only 9/36 planes were combat effective. The 9 that did sweep, again as in the first sweep, needed only minimal battle damage to sucumb. Again, they had to face 29 allied a/c ... 3:1 odds against you.

Pax, you are reading the combat report wrong. 9 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 35000 feet * means that after A2A combat, there was 9 Oscars left. So during A2A combat he lost 27 planes (shot down or retired).

Flying Oscars at 35k is simply wrong way to use that plane model. Result was poor because of long range and totally wrong altitude.

[fcharton]

ORIGINAL: Puhis
Pax, you are reading the combat report wrong. 9 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 35000 feet * means that after A2A combat, there was 9 Oscars left. So during A2A combat he lost 27 planes (shot down or retired).

Hi Puhis,

I don't understand. What does sweeping after A2A combat mean? The point of sweeping is to draw enemy fighters in battle, so after A2A combat, the sweep is over, no?

I don't know what to think about high altitude sweeps. I have read both positions on the forum, from people who all seemed to know what they were talking about. I had the impression that the majority view is that altitude trumps pretty much everything (including maneuver), hence the high sweeps. To be fair, I think both positions (sweep at best maneuver band vs sweep at highest altitude) were supported by examples, which comforts me in the idea that the variance inside the engine is making everybody right, and wrong, and right again.

This said, the same logic should apply to CAP as well (the hurricanes are not high altitude fighters either), so the logical result would either be nothing, or a disproportionate number of ops losses, but not the A2A battle I just saw.

Francois

[MAurelius]

before the latest patch that sweep would have turned out quite differently.... - but with the patch the fatigue was increased quite a bit for high alt flying AND the altitude bonus was decreased as well...

so if you fly them at their 2nd best MVR you might have got better results...

but then again I can show you results in my current GC where the Oscars die in droves in any case if attacking.... just don't stand up to F4F3/4 or even Hurrican IIbs... not even talking about IIc....

so don't worry too much about it

[Puhis]

ORIGINAL: fcharton

ORIGINAL: Puhis
Pax, you are reading the combat report wrong. 9 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 35000 feet * means that after A2A combat, there was 9 Oscars left. So during A2A combat he lost 27 planes (shot down or retired).

Hi Puhis,

I don't understand. What does sweeping after A2A combat mean? The point of sweeping is to draw enemy fighters in battle, so after A2A combat, the sweep is over, no?

Game engine works that way: first there is A2A combat, then there is bombing phase. Fighter sweeps don't do any bombing, so game engine is only reporting how many planes survived A2A phase. In your case 9 out of 36.

I don't know what to think about high altitude sweeps. I have read both positions on the forum, from people who all seemed to know what they were talking about. I had the impression that the majority view is that altitude trumps pretty much everything (including maneuver), hence the high sweeps. To be fair, I think both positions (sweep at best maneuver band vs sweep at highest altitude) were supported by examples, which comforts me in the idea that the variance inside the engine is making everybody right, and wrong, and right again.

This said, the same logic should apply to CAP as well (the hurricanes are not high altitude fighters either), so the logical result would either be nothing, or a disproportionate number of ops losses, but not the A2A battle I just saw.

Francois

Well, you can listen to those giving BS advices. Or you can listen to me. I'm playing solely Japan and always PDU off, so Oscars are my main army fighters until late 1943. And believe me, I know how to use Oscars.

Oscar is slower than any allied fighter and have poor guns. Oscar's only advantages vs. early allied fighters are superb maneuver at lower altitude and better climb rate. And maybe better pilots. Use them.

If you sweep with Oscar Ic, fly below 15k feet. Forger second best band, with Oscar Ic use always the best. Or ignore my advice, keep flying strato-sweeps and loose half a sentai each day.

[MAurelius]

might wanna have a serious attitude check. Mr....and don't blame it on your English - you knew what you were saying...

[SqzMyLemon]

ORIGINAL: fcharton

On a game level, and replying to Joseph (read you before you edited, Lemon-san)...

Guilty as charged.

I'm just seeing red with the game these days and think it's best I bow out of this discussion. I have nothing positive to add, nor kind words for the air combat engine and for my own mental health I'll just stay quiet. For every blanket statement that says we didn't do this or that, we know our games and what is occurring on a regular basis. I may not understand why and frankly no longer care, but what's beginning to matter is it doesn't "feel" right and that's good enough for me.

I'll be devoting more spare time to those imaginary models I claim to build (Erik [:D]) and less on what has become an exercise in frustration more often than not.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Puhis


Pax, you are reading the combat report wrong. 9 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 35000 feet * means that after A2A combat, there was 9 Oscars left. So during A2A combat he lost 27 planes (shot down or retired).

Flying Oscars at 35k is simply wrong way to use that plane model. Result was poor because of long range and totally wrong altitude.

Well, not surprised. Happens to me quite a bit. [:D]

At least I got the altitude and long range issues identified correctly. [:)] So 2 outta 3, not bad for me. [:D]

[fcharton]

July 8th 1942

Empty Timor

The British carriers have retired. The squadrons of Kates in Koepang and Dili found nothing. Bombers from Darwin paid a visit at night, but hit nothing. Off Flores, my carriers detected nothing, and were not spotted by anyone.

In the past, my opponent has retired for a day, and come back. I suspect he does that because his fighters have bad service ratings (2 or 3). My Kates will remain on naval attack, at a range of seven hexes and low altitude. Betties are on naval search, at maximum range, and mini KB is prowling, Vals on search, Kates and some Zeros at low altitude naval attack, and the rest of the zeroes as cover.

KB questions

With Shokaku and Zuikaku on their way to Nagasaki for refits, KB is four carriers strong. Zero complements are back at full strength, and I am very tempted to raid Luganville, where a bombardment task force around BB Mississippi seems to be forming. On the other hand, I don’t know where the US carriers are. I expect my opponent would use them when he makes his move against Lunga, and against massed US carriers and land based aircrafts in Luganville, KB is at risk.

But then, I doubt he will venture his carriers near Luganville. Lots of submarines were seen there, and so far, his carriers have been unlucky against them (I put a torpedo into Saratoga, Enterprise, and Yorktown). I would expect them to sail from Australia, and rendez-vous west of the Solomons, which means KB can probably move east of the New Hebrides, raid Luganville and retire.

This looks like a plan.

Waiting in Bangkok

In Bangkok, my Oscar squadrons are back to full strength. I need a few more day to have morale back over 90, and we can attack Port Blair again. I will try the suggestion Puhis made, and fly everybody at 15 000 feet. Ideally, I’d like the weather to be good, but there doesn’t seem to be such a thing as clear sky in this area, these days.

Meanwhile, a base force landed in Trinkat. I want to build the airfield there, to increase pressure on Port Blair, and to get a better search cover of the area between Ceylon and the coast.

China on the move

The units retreated from Kweilin were defeated once again today. We are marching on Liuchow, where the enemy sports a lot of troops, but most probably in very bad shape.

In Chungking, bombardments are now destroying more squads than they disable. Today, we destroyed 58 combat squads, and disabled 20. I have reinforced the city which now had 4300 AV, against 5500 chinese, and several headquarters, with lots of support, are arriving tomorrow.

We need another week to rest the disruption, but the odds are shifting in our favour.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: Puhis

ORIGINAL: fcharton

ORIGINAL: Puhis
Pax, you are reading the combat report wrong. 9 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 35000 feet * means that after A2A combat, there was 9 Oscars left. So during A2A combat he lost 27 planes (shot down or retired).

Hi Puhis,

I don't understand. What does sweeping after A2A combat mean? The point of sweeping is to draw enemy fighters in battle, so after A2A combat, the sweep is over, no?

Game engine works that way: first there is A2A combat, then there is bombing phase. Fighter sweeps don't do any bombing, so game engine is only reporting how many planes survived A2A phase. In your case 9 out of 36.

I don't know what to think about high altitude sweeps. I have read both positions on the forum, from people who all seemed to know what they were talking about. I had the impression that the majority view is that altitude trumps pretty much everything (including maneuver), hence the high sweeps. To be fair, I think both positions (sweep at best maneuver band vs sweep at highest altitude) were supported by examples, which comforts me in the idea that the variance inside the engine is making everybody right, and wrong, and right again.

This said, the same logic should apply to CAP as well (the hurricanes are not high altitude fighters either), so the logical result would either be nothing, or a disproportionate number of ops losses, but not the A2A battle I just saw.

Francois

Well, you can listen to those giving BS advices. Or you can listen to me. I'm playing solely Japan and always PDU off, so Oscars are my main army fighters until late 1943. And believe me, I know how to use Oscars.

Oscar is slower than any allied fighter and have poor guns. Oscar's only advantages vs. early allied fighters are superb maneuver at lower altitude and better climb rate. And maybe better pilots. Use them.

If you sweep with Oscar Ic, fly below 15k feet. Forger second best band, with Oscar Ic use always the best. Or ignore my advice, keep flying strato-sweeps and loose half a sentai each day.

Puhis is one of the original devs. So his info is about as accurate as it can get. Yes, he is a bit 'terse', but then he's been around here a long time and his reaction to 'venting' isn't always perfect.

Sorry my interpretation was a bit off, but I did say I'm not an expert on reading the reports. Puhis is.

[fcharton]

"Terse" isn't the word I had in mind, but then, english is not my first language...

Sorry about starting all that, I should have known. Let's just get back to the game, and our (well, my) scheduled blunders.
Francois

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: fcharton

"Terse" isn't the word I had in mind, but then, english is not my first language...

Sorry about starting all that, I should have known. Let's just get back to the game, and our (well, my) scheduled blunders.
Francois

You're doing quite well.

In thi sinstance, your planned sweeps were just a bit too risky. Puhis' comments are accurate. If you need to sweep from the mainland, then you want to do so at 10K ... not 35K. And make sure your planes are well repaired as well as your pilots rested. I would prolly do this with the mini-KB instead, but that is personal preference.