2nd Tutorial?

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 2:59 am

I have a chance to work on a scenario that will be released in a normal, tough version, but I think this scenario would also lend itself very well to be made into a kind of 2nd tutorial, one that could be played after playing the one in the game. New players would face a few more obstacles, and just generally get exposed to a few more things that they'll have to get better at later.

If you're new to this game, or new enough to where you'd of liked to see another tutorial (or not), please give me your opinion on whether I should go forward on this.

Don

USMCGrunt · Post by **USMCGrunt** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 3:04 am

I have to go along with Don. Although I've been playing Steel Panthers since SP1 and am confortable with the system, I've introduced a few other people to SPWAW that aren't the Grognard type. I user spend about a week answering questions. A second tutorial introducing more of the features would be most welcome.

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USMCGrunt

-When it absolutely, positively, has to be destroyed overnight.

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 4:04 am

I wrote the first tutorial and designed the scenario to go with it.

I did only cover the basics, working with units on the map, basic move-fire tactics.

Now a second tutorial (advanced) would be an excellent idea.

It should include the ability to edit units, reassign units, dealing with reinforcements, off map units, etc. How to assign artillery and use air support would be some of the things that should be included.

If you do one, Don, you should consider writing a 2nd Tutorial for it so as to guide the player as he attempts to use the new features.

I hope you will do it.

WB

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 5:06 am

Thanks for the input, guys. Your support, WB, means alot and I'll see what "we" can do.

But, you put alot of stuff in there that should be included, and that would mean that I would have to know how to use them properly first! LOL

BTW, Grunt, that saying below your name is great. I was ROTFL!

I'd like to hear from some "new recruits" as to how they feel about this subject, but as it is I think I'll plan on going ahead with it.

Don

Wild Bill · Post by **Wild Bill** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 6:50 am

You'll do just fine. It's a great undertaking. Keep us posted, Don.

Wild Bill

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In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

Drex · Post by **Drex** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 7:26 am

Wild Bill suggested some excellent subjects for the second tutorial. I need to learn to edit units, use my artillery properly and even use the reinforcements. I think there are other s like me who have been playing the game for a while but still haven't mastered all the SPWAW arts. After all this game is pretty deep. I kbnow I was anxious just to get out there playing and didn't spend enough time in boot camp.

jorlando · Post by **jorlando** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 7:33 am

Hi, Don!

I'm a newbie in wargames and I think that a second (and a third, fourth...) tutorial would be very helpful to make people understanding the basics of the wargaming in SPWaW... well, with the sugestions of WBW, not so basic

So... two new tutorials wouldn't be more adequate? An intermediate and a more advanced?

orlando

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 8:36 am

Excellent suggestions! Keep em comin'!

Don

Panzer Capta · Post by **Panzer Capta** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 8:59 am

Particularly one covering the finer points of "Command Control and Orders"

rfox · Post by **rfox** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 9:23 am

I am a relative newcomer to SPWAW. I had never played any of the original SP series.

I would very much like to see a more detailed tutorial which includes all of the features WB mentioned. The first tutorial was good, but there are so many features to this game that a more in-depth tutorial is very much needed. Especially for us green recruits!

Thanks, and I look forward to it.

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Rob

bchapman · Post by **bchapman** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 9:34 am

I'm with Drex. I've been playing this game since it came out, and the older versions of SP before that. There are still many facets of the game that I haven't learned yet. Editing units, C&C still gives me headaches, reinforcements, off map units, etc. are all areas that I could use some training in. So, please do make a 2nd tutorial scenerio along with a written guide. A great idea!
Bascom

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 9:38 am

This is a great Idea & one that I incorporated into my Combat Leader website under Tutorials. My idea was a sort of virtual officer candidate school with lessons and tutorial scenarios on all aspects of wargaming. Even tiny 3-4 turn scenarios that teach some of the finer points of fortification assaults & anti-armour ambushes, setting up kill zones & coordinating combined arms, etc.

This would help make the new recruits into challenging opponents much quicker, increasing their enjoyment of the game & giving you new opponents.

My site is pretty much geared towards CL, but from reading about Pack Rat's plans for a site, I see a pretty good fit for the SP side of things. Perhaps he would like to host an area for this?

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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://nwbattalion.tripod.com
E-mail nwbattalion@icqmail.com

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 10:20 am

I can see that this could easily turn into several scenarios! Which is great - I'd be willing to do more than one. But any tutorial about Command & Control will have to come from someone else, as I don't use it and have no idea how it works!

This is something I'm doing as a joint project with Fabio Prado, and since it was his idea to work together on a couple of scenarios, anything we do here (one or two tutorials) will be posted on his site. I think it's a great idea to have tutorials on other sites however, the more the better!

Don

Bonzo · Post by **Bonzo** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 10:39 am

Not to worry Don

I intended to aim my post at a wide audience of veteran players. As the tiny scenarios I spoke of might be aimed at individual field exercises, eg:

Take out a bunker supported by a MG nest with a platoon of men, an MG squad & a 3" mortar. teach them suppressive fire, use of smoke, maneouver under fire & close assault.

Given the tiny size of the map required, limited scope & small number of units involved, this could be relatively easy way for a veteran player (but novice scenario designer) to cut his teeth on scenario design & map making. What is important in these scenarios would be the lesson passed on, not who can make the prettiest map (though pretty is nice!

Just an idea I throw out to the group.

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Robert (Bonzo) Lindsay, Coordinator
28th (North-west) Battalion Headquarters
Main http://nwbattalion.tripod.com
E-mail nwbattalion@icqmail.com

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 10:44 am

Don - You have the basis of a fine idea here. Intermediate and advanced tutorials are very much needed in my view.

I classify myself as an experienced gamer, with 40+ years in board and computer gaming. The artillery aspect of WAW threatened what little remaining sanity I have, until I put a lot of work into testing. Now I have a pretty good idea of how arty operates in the game, but I won't begin to attempt to calculate the hours it required to get there.

Don't let this idea drop by the wayside. SP:WAW is a rich and nearly infinitely flexible tactical ground combat system, the hours we put into learning the system are very much worthwhile and the online help via the message board is the best I've seen anywhere.

But the newbie - not necessarily new to gaming, either - will get a lot more out of the game a lot faster if we take the tutorials up a couple of levels.

Press on regardless! (Where have I heard that before? Oh, yes, the US Army.)

Bing

Don · Post by **Don** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 10:58 am

You're right Bonzo, there's lot's of room here for tutorials of all types - taking out a bunker would make for a GREAT tutorial!

You hit on something else that would be great for an in-depth tutorial, and that is scenario design. We see so many questions on the forum all the time, and we will continue to as long as there is nowhere these new designers can get their questions answered. WB's tutorial covered alot, but there's alot of other features that need to be explained, and I don't feel nearly qualified to take that on. Good idea though.

Bing - thanks for the encouragement! Maybe we will have to call on you for some of that artillery expertise, so stay by that phone!

Don

Bing · Post by **Bing** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 12:56 pm

Don - I'm far from being an expert, at SPWAW or anything else for that matter. But I have done a good bit of testing of the version 4.5 artillery routines. Some of the findings run counter to received wisdom, may not be popular, all the same I knows what I sees.

Drop an e-mail if you want to discuss further:

Byron Inglesh
bing2@avci.net

jonhooper · Post by **jonhooper** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 6:45 pm

Don,

This is my first week to play SPWaW. I would like to see another tutorial. The first one was great, and it got me into the game quickly. But I would appreciate a second, more complex one.

degen · Post by **degen** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 7:11 pm

Don-

I think this is a great idea. Using specific battles to illustrate the best tactics in given situations would give us all a chance to sharpen our skills. The basics of the game could be mastered with practice, but the advanced skills and tactics take time and patience to master. I'm looking forward to what you produce.

Besides, as a fellow Elk Grove resident, I have to give you my support!

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"I would have much rather that he had given me one more division" - Rommel after receiving his field marshall baton

RUsco · Post by **RUsco** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 10:12 pm

Great Idea.
Assaulting a pillbox through a mine field,barbed wire,infantry and mg's.

Basics of using coordinated Artillary, Infantry, and Engineers.