Razing the Reich

[timmyab]

If nothing else, this game is a master class in trash talk.[:D]

[carlkay58]

Pelton's Reserve optimization defense puts a lot of wear and tear on the Reserve units. You have to be careful and pull back the Reserve units that are being caught up occasionally and allow them to refit - just the same as the front line units. I find that one reserve for three frontline and one in refit seems to be about right for long term action - but long term grinding can get ahead of the refit curve here.

Its all just attrition - even on Turn 1.

[Michael T]

I have worked out a rough Soviet Army 2.0 schedule from between now (Oct 1942) and May 1943. Currently I have 40 INF, 10 Tk and 4 Mech XXX. I plan to have 120 INF, 24 Tk and 12 Mech XXX, plus 30 Art XX and 6 Rct XX by Spring 43.

I still have around 40 Inf X and 370 Inf XX. I plan to use the 40 X and 80 XX for 40 INF XXX and another 120 XX for another 40 INF XXX. So I will have the 120 INF XXX in total plus ~160 XX available for further INF Corp as we progress thru summer 43. Naturally the Mech and Art units will also increase thru summer 43 as more Trucks and ARM become available. This is going to be some steamroller, fun times at last [:)]

Forgot to add I have 14 Gd INF XXX with more just around the corner.

[Flaviusx]

Given the nature of this game, I would even consider building more than 30 arty divisions. 40+ might not be too much.

[Michael T]

Yes more Art may be neccesary, but I just don't know how much war material and supply my HI can sustain yet. I will get a better idea come spring 43.

[gradenko2k]

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Yes, BUT what about Axis players who have a bad summer 41 and decide that rather than do the honorable thing and surrender decide to go down this path in an attempt to bore their opponent in to accepting a draw or quitting the game in disgust?

Solve it on a community level. If a player is acting in bad faith, blacklist him.

[SigUp]

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Yes, BUT what about Axis players who have a bad summer 41 and decide that rather than do the honorable thing and surrender decide to go down this path in an attempt to bore their opponent in to accepting a draw or quitting the game in disgust?

Solve it on a community level. If a player is acting in bad faith, blacklist him.

I mean I don't support the decision to go back to Poland and remain defensive from winter 41 onwards. But what is the point of having a 41-45 game if every Axis player who has a bad summer is forced to surrender? This game now is a special case. It was never done before and I doubt it will be utilized again.

[Michael T]

I think until you face such a situation you can't appreciate the dissapointment and frustration.

[SigUp]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I think until you face such a situation you can't appreciate the dissapointment and frustration.

I can, there is a reason I haven't finished my first two GC as the Axis against the AI (well, there's the difference, against the AI you can quit and still win). But I think this game is simply an abberation, a crazy experiment. There is no need to force every Axis player to surrender if the 41 campaign goes bad, as long as the retreat-to-Poland-and-stay-on-the-defensive-from-then-on doesn't become a common sight.

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I think until you face such a situation you can't appreciate the dissapointment and frustration.

And boredom.
If nothing is done to prevent this then it could become a successful strategy for people who play the Axis side and lose the game early on but can't accept defeat.I'm sure a lot of people, including me, would have quit in disgust by now which of course technically would be marked down as a defeat.
This game is such a huge investment in time that I think if you're going to conduct an 'experiment' like this you should get the o.k from your opponent first.It's disrespectful not to.
If I ever play the Soviet side in a 41 campaign again I'd be wanting a house rule to prevent any chance of this happening.

[Manstein63]

I don't see what the problem is. If I had an opponent who decided that they were going to 'fort up' & play defensive from 1942 onward I would look at it a challenge (as I am sure Michael T is doing) & do everything that I possibly could to be in Berlin before the game ends & the earlier that I could do it the better. That being said I don't think that the Soviet army in 42 is able to deal with this form of defense very easily but I think that it could change in 43. I will be watching this most carefully
Manstein63

[Aurelian]

I would be estatic. The Red Army just gets bigger and bigger with out interference. And that much closer to Berlin without fighting.

[hfarrish]

ORIGINAL: timmyab

And boredom.
If nothing is done to prevent this then it could become a successful strategy for people who play the Axis side and lose the game early on but can't accept defeat.I'm sure a lot of people, including me, would have quit in disgust by now which of course technically would be marked down as a defeat.
This game is such a huge investment in time that I think if you're going to conduct an 'experiment' like this you should get the o.k from your opponent first.It's disrespectful not to.
If I ever play the Soviet side in a 41 campaign again I'd be wanting a house rule to prevent any chance of this happening.

I think we will see MT smash Pelton to dust relatively quickly with the strength he is building up. Once he can start making 5, 10, 15 successful attacks a turn, which is not far off, the German army will quickly decline and collapse.

[Michael T]

I am no longer bored or unhappy. Now and beyond is all good

My annoyance was between turns 14 (when the great retreat began) and around 50 turns beyond that until INF XXX gave me some offensive clout. So 50 turns of dreariness had to be endured. All water under the bridge now. But I reiterate, no way I will allow that to happen again. Its not my idea of WWII in the East. I still really have not played a 'normal' summer 42 as Soviet, something I was looking forward too against Pelton, someone supposedly pretty good at that. But he failed miserabley. Perhaps glacva will deliver a proper 42 campaign if we get our game going again.

[sillyflower]

ORIGINAL: timmyab

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I think until you face such a situation you can't appreciate the dissapointment and frustration.

And boredom.
If nothing is done to prevent this then it could become a successful strategy for people who play the Axis side and lose the game early on but can't accept defeat.I'm sure a lot of people, including me, would have quit in disgust by now which of course technically would be marked down as a defeat.
This game is such a huge investment in time that I think if you're going to conduct an 'experiment' like this you should get the o.k from your opponent first.It's disrespectful not to.
If I ever play the Soviet side in a 41 campaign again I'd be wanting a house rule to prevent any chance of this happening.

After 2 years I still haven't found an opponent who would stick to the bitter end, apart from Belphegor's russians, despite many 'I won't surrender' promises before game started. Give me a German who does a Pelton any day as opposed to quitting or simply disappearing somewhere between T2 and T30 any day. This is despite agreeing a german win is Berlin falling later than historically which gives German more to play for in a longer game. I want my day with a 2.0 model Russian army. Fingers crossed for my 3 current games or else I will have to beg Terje to play me.

[Disgruntled Veteran]

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

ORIGINAL: timmyab

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I think until you face such a situation you can't appreciate the dissapointment and frustration.

And boredom.
If nothing is done to prevent this then it could become a successful strategy for people who play the Axis side and lose the game early on but can't accept defeat.I'm sure a lot of people, including me, would have quit in disgust by now which of course technically would be marked down as a defeat.
This game is such a huge investment in time that I think if you're going to conduct an 'experiment' like this you should get the o.k from your opponent first.It's disrespectful not to.
If I ever play the Soviet side in a 41 campaign again I'd be wanting a house rule to prevent any chance of this happening.

After 2 years I still haven't found an opponent who would stick to the bitter end, apart from Belphegor's russians, despite many 'I won't surrender' promises before game started. Give me a German who does a Pelton any day as opposed to quitting or simply disappearing somewhere between T2 and T30 any day. This is despite agreeing a german win is Berlin falling later than historically which gives German more to play for in a longer game. I want my day with a 2.0 model Russian army. Fingers crossed for my 3 current games or else I will have to beg Terje to play me.

I would, but I'm hacking it out with A-game. Our game is going 2turns a week tops so it will be a while.

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
I think we will see MT smash Pelton to dust relatively quickly with the strength he is building up.

I'm absolutely certain he will, from mid 43 on his army's going to be a monster.That's really what I would object to.It shouldn't take hundreds of hours and a year out of your life to work out what should have been obvious from very early on.
I'm not saying that it's not useful as an experiment, but I think something like this should be mutually agreed between the players.

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
After 2 years I still haven't found an opponent who would stick to the bitter end, apart from Belphegor's russians, despite many 'I won't surrender' promises before game started. Give me a German who does a Pelton any day as opposed to quitting or simply disappearing somewhere between T2 and T30 any day.

That's very true of course.Finding a reliable opponent is difficult.I just think that once the game was over as a contest I'd lose the will to carry on.I find the late game a bit dull anyway to be honest.Maybe I've just got a low boredom threshold.

[Harrybanana]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I am no longer bored or unhappy. Now and beyond is all good

My annoyance was between turns 14 (when the great retreat began) and around 50 turns beyond that until INF XXX gave me some offensive clout. So 50 turns of dreariness had to be endured. All water under the bridge now. But I reiterate, no way I will allow that to happen again. Its not my idea of WWII in the East. I still really have not played a 'normal' summer 42 as Soviet, something I was looking forward too against Pelton, someone supposedly pretty good at that. But he failed miserabley. Perhaps glacva will deliver a proper 42 campaign if we get our game going again.

Michael,

Saper indicated to me earlier that he is going to try and work out his technical issues with Server games. If he does I would very much reccomend him as an opponent. In our first game he stuck out the Blizzard defending forward despite a so so 41 offensive. When it became obvious in early summer 42 that he could not break my lines or make much progress he sensibly halted his offensive, so we did not have a "normal" 42 either. But he sure didn't runaway either. I had to fight hard all the way to Berlin.

The main problem I see with your wanting to play a "normal" 42 is that will only happen if the Germans achieve a normal or at least very close to normal 41. I think you are just too good for that to happen against most players. But Saper has improved enough that I think he might give you a run for your money. And it would certainly be fun for me to watch.

[Michael T]

End Soviet T69 (8th Oct 1942) Clear.

The last turn of the summer saw the loss ratio fall below 2:1 for Soviet assaults, 15K German to 29K Soviet. Another month of clear weather may well have seen Soviet units push thru in to unfortified ground to the south west of Riga (well at least only Level 1's). The summer of 1943 is going to be fun fun fun!

Of the 39 INF XXX I have, 19 are Guards, with another 2 or 3 due to convert. We managed 1 Guard Tk Corp. All in all a very good summer considering the lack of offensive punch we have. It was good training in what works and what doesn't in so much as the new Soviet attack doctrine.

There are now 4 turns of mud, damn it. This gives the hun some much needed breathing space I am guessing. I am betting his ARM pool is somewhat depleted by now though.

Our ARM pool is looking very healthy and I now have 12 new Art XX with more to come.

[Flaviusx]

I think you've got your toys on the wrong end the front, MT. They ought to be getting ready for winter in the south. Blow away that Dnepr defense once and for all and make haste to Romania. Stake everything on this. This business up north is a sideshow, the war is most easily and rapidly won down south, especially if you can get Romania to flip. Nothing you can do up north will be anywhere near as decisive as that.

It's going to be very difficult due to reassignment costs to get all those goodies grinding away by Kaunas to where they need to be.

On the bright side...if you can somehow finesse this, you've got Pelton's reserves fixed on the wrong end of the map, as well.