man..... that was harsh

[budd]

So i play the demo and am enjoying the game so i buy it. I'm going thru the tutorials a couple times asking some questions in the forums all's good. I really not understanding the classic and persistent AP question, i'm thinking while playing the tutorial hey i'm doing pretty good and still having a hard time figuring out the difference between the 2 systems.I'm reading the threads hearing about opportunity action and cap action and i'm thinking "is my game broke how come i cant do those cool things like opportunity actions and stuff" .....so i play my first normal scenario with the classic AP's I mean i read about the differences, hell vr_ironfist even explained it too me with pictures[;)]
I kinda knew something wasn't right while playing the tutorials, but playing my first scenario was an eye opener for sure ....holy fu**ing moly[X(] ...big difference...huge. VR_ironfist wasn't kidding you have to plan ahead...this might require some thought and a few dozen times getting my azz kicked. Needless to say my first scenario didn't go well last thing i remember was my german trooper standing at the crossroads holding a sign "will work for caps"

[Jamm]

Yes, sometimes the AI can give you a good pasting.
Welcome to the community budd

[ericbabe]

Some days I also feel as though I work for CAPs. [:)]

[budd]

Well i'm going to give the classic AP's system a real chance.curious about how many people use what system...how do you do one of those poll things anyway. Is that monster tutorial tough or do i just suck? what the hell was i supposed to do about those t-34's anyway i lost 18 to 16. It's nice to have the choice between systems, thx.

[Jamm]

I use the persistent APs myself.
The firefights seem to have a more natural flow that way IMHO

[PKH]

I think classic mode is a good deal easier vs. the AI. At least it seems that way after a few matches of classic. I wiped out the t-34's on the monsters map in classic today with a t-38 and 2 pz-II's I think, but I find it's usually much harder when I've played it on persistent mode.

[budd]

yea I heard that persistent ap's were better for the AI, the flow does seem better with persistent AP's also. I can see why veterans of the board game like the classic system though.

By the way thx Jamm for the scenarios, i got them all downloaded and installed, haven't played them yet. The maps look real good.

Does the AI always do the same thing when you replay a scenario?

[IronFist00]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

Well i'm going to give the classic AP's system a real chance.curious about how many people use what system...how do you do one of those poll things anyway. Is that monster tutorial tough or do i just suck? what the hell was i supposed to do about those t-34's anyway i lost 18 to 16. It's nice to have the choice between systems, thx.

Hey budd (sorry, couldn't help myself [;)]), glad I cleared up some of the differences between Persistent APs and Classic APs. I play both, usually whichever my opponent prefers. Personally though, I prefer Classic APs against human players and Persistent APs against the AI. The AI definitely plays better using Persistent.

While I agree with others that Persistent APs flow better/smoother, I find it has less decision points and overall requires less planning, especially long term, i.e. not just to the end of the current Round but even into future ones. And as I mentioned in another thread, I've converted some friends to the Classic AP mode once I took the time to explain its nuances to them (who wants to read a PDF?). I find that's the biggest hurdle usually; people not liking the Classic system because they don't completely understanding it unless they've played the board game.

As for Monsters, it is harder against the AI on Persistent for the reasons mentioned so Classic AP is easier. Also historically it was a wake-up call for the Germans so in that way, it should be difficult. What I find helpful is:

A. Don't forget to use smoke; smoke is your friend when trying to cross the open.
B. Use your heavier tanks PzIIIs & PzIVs to exhaust the Soviet armor and then use the speed of the PzIIs to close to short range (+3 FP) or CC (+4 FP) and fire. If you get flank shots at short range (all CCs are flank attacks) and use +2 CAPs, you should start getting some brewed up or immobilized enemy armor.
C. Remember that at that stage in the war, the PzIII is the anti-armor tanks and the PzIVD is the anti-infantry tank. Using them in their designed roll helps.
D. Constantly try to fix and flank - trying to run up the open middle with all those ATG and armor will get you killed.

Surviving the early round is crucial to having a chance to win imo.

Good luck and let us know how you make out.

[budd]

ORIGINAL: VR_IronFist

ORIGINAL: **budd**

I find that's the biggest hurdle usually; people not liking the Classic system because they don't completely understanding it unless they've played the board game.

Yea ^ that would be me.

what about the question of the AI, in your experience does it change it up depending on what you do as a player.
I went to the multiplayer lobby late last night[pacific time] and no one was found. I rarely get a chance to play multiplayer, but i have some holiday time off and after the kiddies get to bed hoping to give it a try[fingers crossed]......with persistent Ap's of course

[IronFist00]

I find the AI does switch up what it does based on what I'm doing and the results of combat. Alter your approach in any two games of a firefight and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Eric might have to answer this but I have tried some games against the AI in Classic mode with v1.14 and it seems like the AI is handling it better. Not sure if it's just me but it is actually playing within the rules as opposed to in beta when it would just "spend" it units constantly. Now it seems to actually play Classic.

Good luck with getting some multiplayer game in. I usually play pre-arranged games. I'm on EST but do stay up late. Besides my two friends, I've tried to get some games in with Gerry (on these forums) using the beta but our game always hung.

[ericbabe]

The AI may do different things from game to game -- the degree to which it does this really depends on the particular scripts assigned to units by the scenario designers. Some scripts are more amenable to variation than others.