Immortal Leaders: Are they dead or alive?

Gallo Rojo · Post by **Gallo Rojo** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 8:42 am

I’m playing the final battles of U2R campaign. During the actions into the Hurgten Forrest two of my units were completely destroyed: one recon and one tank that were with me since the Normandy landing.

Although the new leaders that replaced the dead ones have different names and no kills on their scores, they have a very high level of experience and morale:
Tanker has an experience of 95

and a moral of 90 and recon infantry an experience of 92 and a moral of 98. This is far to be the US average range for 44 (70&70).

May be I was lucky and my replacements are veterans who come from another company...

... or ...

Could be possible that the immortal leaders are still alive? A dead leader change his names and loss his kills but keeping his experience and moral rankings? Experience and moral are the key issue that have to change in order that those dead men rest in peace...

Any body else had the same problem?

Best Regards

Gallo

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No Pasarán!!

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 12:15 pm

Yes, I had a non-pleasant encounter with a guy named only 'Hummel' and nothing more. Also, the leader of one of my SS rifle platoons suddenly switched place with the sergeant commanding the 50 mm mortar.. leaving the artillery NCO in command of the platoon and the 2nd lt commanding the mortar.. since the sgt got artillery knowledge and the lt inf only this is no good combination

. It doesn't seem as frequent as before though.

I should also add (before someone asks), i have upgraded to 4.5..

[This message has been edited by Fredde (edited January 19, 2001).]

Falder · Post by **Falder** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 3:21 pm

Im my ww2 campaign as the germans two of my best engineer squads (experience over 100) were wiped out by soviet artillery

. A you understand my greif were immense.

I replaced them as new engineers, to my surprise their experience were again over 100 and their morale close to 100. What a joy

. A bit strange though, but I am not complaining.

Fredrik

jorlando · Post by **jorlando** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 5:53 pm

just a guess:

maybe the game makes a substitution from a dead veteran with a new soldier with the same (or close) statistics... Something if a experienced commander is reassigned to substitute a deceased one, and they send a commander with the same talents than the other...

adantas · Post by **adantas** » Fri Jan 19, 2001 6:04 pm

If I'm not wrong I saw a topic about this and someone told that if the crew or squad don't lose all your members, the second man in rank will be promoted to lead the AFV/squad..etc.
So, if this is true its supposed that this surviving man has almost the same exeprience and moral levels that the deceased one.

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Senta à Pua!!!

Dagobert · Post by **Dagobert** » Sat Jan 20, 2001 1:42 am

[QUOTE]Originally posted by adantas:
If I'm not wrong I saw a topic about this and someone told that if the crew or squad don't lose all your members, the second man in rank will be promoted to lead the AFV/squad..etc.
So, if this is true its supposed that this surviving man has almost the same exeprience and moral levels that the deceased one.

So do you think this happens when a squad or crew is dispersed? Playing U2R and noticing my replacements coming in at a very high level.

rexmonday · Post by **rexmonday** » Sat Jan 20, 2001 3:01 am

I'm still soldiering through a British long campaign which I have been playing in spurts since one of the really early versions. In this it is now common place for a unit to be destroyed and the replacement (from the fix/upgrade screen) to retain the same level of experience, morale, and command (infantry/arty/armour) ratings as the dead unit. The kill count does appear to be resetting normally, but apart from this it looks like the unit is just coming back to life.
This makes the later stages of the campaign a strange exercise - I have a platoon of sappers who despite each squad having been killed off several times, still manage to find replacements with an experience level of about 120...

BryanMelvin · Post by **BryanMelvin** » Sat Jan 20, 2001 5:50 am

I suspect that Camapigns designed under an older version of spwaw contain this error.

Has anyone tried a long Camapign with current 4.5 and seen this?

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MarauderMel

Fredde · Post by **Fredde** » Sat Jan 20, 2001 10:29 pm

Hmm, should be in the game itself and not in a specific scenario or campaign.. i believe anyway. But perhaps it can stick around in some way..

[This message has been edited by Fredde (edited January 20, 2001).]

Igor · Post by **Igor** » Tue Jan 23, 2001 1:38 pm

Y'know, I was thinking about this while plugging through a perfectly good assault game...darned if I know why...and here's my read on what's happening.

Given medical support, roughly a third to half of the men "lost" are back to the unit within two days, on the average. This is guys who split, wigged out, suffered minor wounds, etc. By the time the next battle rolls around in a long campaign (a month later), you could well get back around two thirds of your losses (the rest are dead, invalided out, or going to be gone so long they'll be reassigned).

This being the case, you're not getting uberreplacements; your getting your old squad back with a few new faces. Ok, it kind of breaks down when the old squad was captured (or when your ace sniper was offed by a 152mm howitzer scoring a direct hit over open sights); but by and large you don't see ten new faces when you "lose" a ten man squad even if it was eliminated to the last man.

[This message has been edited by Igor (edited January 23, 2001).]

David F. Wall · Post by **David F. Wall** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 2:43 am

I think we still have some variation of this phenomenon. I just had an US Army Arm Inf Squad get wiped off the map in a U2R battle(being caught between two MG42s can ruin your week) and when I repaired the unit, the new Sergeant had no kills but 100 experience.

This is better than the rankless wunderkinds that used to show up, but it's still a divergence from expectation, and it allows you to be reckless with vets without paying a price.

Anyone else observe this?

DFW

Larry Holt · Post by **Larry Holt** » Fri Jan 26, 2001 2:52 am

Originally posted by Igor:
...
Given medical support, roughly a third to half of the men "lost" are back to the unit within two days, on the average. This is guys who split, wigged out, suffered minor wounds, etc. By the time the next battle rolls around in a long campaign (a month later), you could well get back around two thirds of your losses (the rest are dead, invalided out, or going to be gone so long they'll be reassigned)....
[This message has been edited by Igor (edited January 23, 2001).]

Igor,
Your explaination makes sense although I do not know if it is the reason the code behaves the way it does. (It might be a bug that has some rational basis).

However, I would like to see some support that has some experience too. I'm Germany, playing the USSR, '42. ALL my ground support is green! (I'm not sure about arty). That does not seem realistic.

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An old soldier but not yet a faded one.
OK, maybe just a bit faded.

Igor · Post by **Igor** » Thu Feb 01, 2001 6:04 am

Quote

However, I would like to see some support that has some experience too. I'm Germany, playing the USSR,'42. ALL my ground support is green! (I'm not sure about arty). That does not seem realistic.

/quote

It isn't. For some reason, the Luftwaffe is set to produce second line troops (ten experience below campaign norm). I went straight to the editor, and reset the ground support formation type from second line to elite (ten points above normal). The planes cost more; but those early war Stukas aren't a pathetic joke any more.