Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: paullus99

Sorry - been lurking for a long while (kids & work considerations).

I just find some of these WiTP:AE results to be too ridiculous for words. I mean, great job, but to think that 60 bombers would score "0" hits is a bit more than I can possibly believe. I know the mods do make quite a few changes to the basic code, but really, I get a bit tired of seeing results like this.

Not to mention the coding disaster that ended your game with Rader........

You should have seen the replay... my fighters got through the bombers formations and stayed there a lot, among them, killing more than half of them... so i think they arrived pretty in bad conditions over the target...and our flak did a great job too.
I think the difference between my strikes and his is that my bombers arrived always unmolested over the targets, while his got butchered for a long while before being able to deliver.

At least that's what i think

Also consider that this mod tunes down a lot the aerial torpedo accurancy, which, along with losing cohesion due to fighters intervention and along with flak fire, can really change the result

Yes, I don't think I have ever seen a damaged bomber ever make a hit. And a good number of those SBDs and avengers were damaged before they even began the attack run.

[CaptBeefheart]

GreyJoy: Well done, Sir! You continue to get us readers to develop doubts in your strategy and tactics and then pull off massive victories, fooling us of little faith in a major way. This is why I love your AARs. The story arc has all the classic dramatic elements.

I still think it's best to put Allied CVs in one TF, which I think I learned from Mr. Sutton. Having some react and others not is obviously fatal.

Now is the time to finish off those cripples. I wouldn't worry too much about his surface forces since you damaged his BBs pretty well. Just be careful of LBA. He should be able to muster a number of shore-based TBFs, SBDs and possibly Vengeances by now (would have to check on their availability). I wouldn't worry too much about 2Es except Beauforts with their torps. Skip-bombing B-25s are not too effective against the KB in my experience.

EDIT: He might have old BBs nearby, but I still wouldn't let that stop me from trying to finish off some CVs and maybe a BB or two.

Cheers,
CC

[GreyJoy]

Feb 09, 43

Thank you all guys!

I did what i could but Brad saved most of his ships. Despite the damage They were still able to get away under Townsville CAP umbrella


At night we engaged the BB North Carolina who was left behind...Yamato put several 46cm hits on her and she slipped beneath the waves....POW was finished by a brave sub!

Then our subs engaged many times the enemy old BBs... but this time we had no luck

When the morning came, our CVs were 9 hexes west of Townsville but the only ships in sight were a series of PT TFs and the crippled Cleveland CL (who had been torpedoed three days ago). We finished her off but nothing more happened. The enemy CVs and BBs are gone

We also sunk an empty xAP and an xAK... probably CAP traps...

Ok, so the battle ended with this result:

IJN:
Kikitami (badly damaged...dead in the water)
+ 1 DD

USN:
1 CV + 2 CVEs
2 BBs
1 Modern CL
1 Omaha class CL
+3 DDs


Not bad, obviously...but not even a stunning victory considering how well the air combat had gone. All his CVs managed to get away so i guess the damage inflicted was minimal...



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Night Time Surface Combat, near Tagula Island at 100,143, Range 9,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Hiei
BB Kirishima
BB Yamato
CA Maya
CA Myoko
CA Mikuma
CA Aoba
DD Nowaki
DD Arashi
DD Hagikaze
DD Tanikaze
DD Murasame
DD Yamakaze
DD Wakaba
DD Yugure
DD Ariake
DD Shirakumo
DD Isonami
DD Yugiri
DD Oboro
DD Sazanami
DD Ushio
DD Tatsuyuke
DD Uruyuke

Allied Ships
BB North Carolina, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
DD Farenholt, Shell hits 1, and is sunk


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Tagula Island at 101,143

Japanese Ships
SS I-23

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage

BB Prince of Wales is sighted by SS I-23
SS I-23 launches 6 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Palm Island at 95,143

Japanese Ships
SS I-24

Allied Ships
xAP Diomed, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

xAP Diomed is sighted by SS I-24
SS I-24 launches 2 torpedoes at xAP Diomed


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Palm Island at 94,143

Japanese Ships
SS I-25

Allied Ships
xAK Mary Livanos, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage

xAK Mary Livanos is sighted by SS I-25
SS I-25 attacking xAK Mary Livanos on the surface


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Townsville at 95,144

Japanese Ships
SS I-8, hits 1

Allied Ships
DD Saufley
BB Washington
CLAA Juneau
DD Radford
DD Anderson
DD Gansevoort
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Palm Island at 95,143

Japanese Ships
SS RO-63

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi
BB Tennessee
DD Nicholas
DD Sterett
DD Stack

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Palm Island at 94,143

Japanese Ships
SS I-25, hits 6, heavy damage

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi
BB Tennessee
BB Colorado
DD Chevalier
DD Sterett
DD Stack

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Palm Island at 94,143

Japanese Ships
SS I-25, hits 9, and is sunk

Allied Ships
BB Mississippi
BB Tennessee
BB Colorado
DD Sterett
DD Chevalier
BB Warspite
DD Stack
DD Grayson

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Tagula Island at 100,143

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 67 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2-N Rufe x 23
A6M5 Zero x 128

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 3
B-17F Fortress x 4
B-24D Liberator x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
B-17F Fortress: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
CV Junyo
BB Yamato
CVL Zuiho
BB Mutsu


This is a bit violating our HRs....but i guess this is not the right moment to remind him[:D]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Rockhampton at 103,148

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 62 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21
B5N1 Kate x 13

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N1 Kate: 2 damaged
B5N1 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
OS2U-3 Kingfisher: 3 destroyed

Allied Ships
CL Cleveland, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
DD Clark

[CaptBeefheart]

Ah, what the heck? Where did those forces go, to the northeast?

EDIT: Anyway, well done. His CVs will be in the yards for some time to come. His offensive tempo will suffer a lot for the next six months or so.

Cheers,
CC

[koniu]

Congratulations GreyJoy

[Rapunzel]

Well only a small victory... . I think you won three months of peace. With the hellcat the allied will be on the move again.

[veji1]

It would be interesting to know how many of the hits on the CVs were FOW. But I think he got himself more than 3 months of peace : Lots of CVs are quite damaged, airgroups are butchered, and most of all, the feeling of impunity and confidence that Qball had acquired with his successful coup de mains is gone. He will lick his wounds and prepare for next time, but being more careful now that Greyjoy has traced a line in the sand.

If he can finish China off (except Chungking) quickly, he has more time to keep reinforcing his perimeter. Not the stunning strategic victory that would have bought him 9 months of protection from sea ops, but a big tactical victory and moderate strategic one that should give him 4/5 months. This will really help anyway.

The yards are going to be clogged for the allies for a while...

[veji1]

looking at the hits on the hornet and Lex, there should be a fair bit of sys damage, so those two will probably have to spend some time in big yards. They will need time to clear the damage in Townsville, than he will move them south to Sydney, than from them escort them to PH or West coast... Just the transfer process means that you got yourself 4/5 months from these 2 CVs... At least that would be my guesstimate. The other two are not that damaged... but with just 3 US CVs right now, he is going to be extra carefull...

What is important is the psychological aspect, he will revert to just going for cheap low risk operations but wait for massive superiority for the big operations... And that massive superiority ain't coming for a while...

Now the key is don't be complacent and beware of coup de mains on small bases that he can then build up for his LBA.. The Cocos, Christmas etc of this world are the main danger for you for a while from a sea point of view.

From a general point of view it is very likely that he focusses on a land based operation in Burma for the next 6 months where he will try to apply overwhelming pressure... So be prepared in terms of Land forces, air forces and most of all supply, because a massive 4e bombing campaign will just burn that off quickly..

[GreyJoy]

I agree guys. Tactically speaking was just a small victory. However, strategically, it has great value for me. Psicologically QBall now knows i have nails and fangs. I wasn't able to stop any of his actions for the last 12 months but now we have succesfully defeated him in a knife-knife confrontation and that must have a weight in terms of confidence (for both of us).
The real victory, however, is to have gotten out of this battle without a scratch. That is, being in feb 43, almost unbelievable!

2 BBs, 2 CLs, 2 CVEs and 1 CV isn't exactly something that can stop the allies.
In 5/6 months he's gonna have again a numerical parity and a superiority in terms on quality (Hellcats and flak).

However the KB remains powerfull. We've lost 67 pilots in this battle, but only 17 fighter pilots and some 30 bomber pilots (the rest were from the Betty Daitai from Munda), so the experience of the KB hasn't been touched.

Now we'll get back in the shades. Time to upgrade all my Vals and Kates to Judy and Jills and to send a couple of my CVs back to Japan for the April upgrades.

We'll move back to the DEI and CENTPAC some 150 Netties and some 150 LBA zeros. I think he will now go for Tabiutea and for southern DEI (all places where he can advance under an LBA umbrella). The KB will remain between Truk and Bab as usual. We'll also reinforce Rossell and Tugala Island with a couple of SNLFs...nothing special, just to prevent an easy conquest.
All my subs will get back to Rabaul. Some of them need a trip to a yard and some more need some rest. 20 of them will remain in the area (10 will remain in SOPAC, while 10 will be moved to Tarawa in order to check the Tabiutea operation).

Today the first Daitai of 27 planes have been upgraded to N1K1 at Singapore!!! these guys will be moved immediately to Palembang, where they'll back a Sentai of 27 Nicks.

I agree that Burma will become again an important theatre. However we're in a pretty decent shape there. Our positions remain strong and our air army is untouched. With the N1K1 and the KI-44c coming online soon, he's gonna have some hard time dislodge me from there.

Today we also made a little ambush over Babar, where we shot down 10 B-25s and some 3 F4F, losing 2 Nicks and 2 Tojos (but no pilots KIA!). I'm trying to keep him honest here as much as i could. still have a strong surace force here, with a mini.KB (1CVL + 2 CVEs) acting as a deterrent. Despite his bombing runs we're able to keep Babar, Salroe and Saumlaki supplied and we're reinforcing all the little dot bases on the NW coast of New Guinea.
Biak is now a level 6 AF and we're sending base forces, engineers and an Air HQ to the area, to cover a possible landing on the right flank of Ambon.

From Japan 3 Combat Eng regiments, along with some rebuilt SNLFs are being sent to the bases around Bali (which i want to garrison even more.

The Adamans will recieve some extra troops too.

The Mariannas are finally being garrisoned, with some 5 Base forces and an Air Division HQ unloading as we speak.

I now need to finish China asap, in order to start shipping out the units i need to fortify my perimeter. We have massed 147,000 men at Chengtu, facing 90,000 chinese... it will be a bloody affair. In a week or so we'll begin the attacks.

[ny59giants]

I would schedule a night time port attack for Townsville with as many planes as possible. Try to do so when the moonlight is getting close to 100% as that seems to help. Keep the DL high for the base. A few Glen equipped subs off the base. A SC TF followed by a BB TF to hit the port may be worth your while if you can time it to hit at night. You may not sink anything, but hopefully you can add more damage to his CVs. A few bomb hits would be nice. [;)]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: veji1

looking at the hits on the hornet and Lex, there should be a fair bit of sys damage, so those two will probably have to spend some time in big yards. They will need time to clear the damage in Townsville, than he will move them south to Sydney, than from them escort them to PH or West coast... Just the transfer process means that you got yourself 4/5 months from these 2 CVs... At least that would be my guesstimate. The other two are not that damaged... but with just 3 US CVs right now, he is going to be extra carefull...

What is important is the psychological aspect, he will revert to just going for cheap low risk operations but wait for massive superiority for the big operations... And that massive superiority ain't coming for a while...

Now the key is don't be complacent and beware of coup de mains on small bases that he can then build up for his LBA.. The Cocos, Christmas etc of this world are the main danger for you for a while from a sea point of view.

From a general point of view it is very likely that he focusses on a land based operation in Burma for the next 6 months where he will try to apply overwhelming pressure... So be prepared in terms of Land forces, air forces and most of all supply, because a massive 4e bombing campaign will just burn that off quickly..

The only places where he can advance without CVs are basically southern DEI (from Darwin) and CENTPAC (from Areoe to Tabiutea area). I don't think Christmas Island can be viewed as in danger. I have 350 AVs there, behind 4 forts. The base is well in range of Java where i have several mutual supporting large AFs with Air HQs. Above all, he cannot arrive unspotted, so i'll have time to mass my air power and to call the KB.
Agree that i have to avoid any coup de main for the next few months.

The Kuriles will also have my full attention now

[ny59giants]

I now need to finish China asap, in order to start shipping out the units i need to fortify my perimeter. We have massed 147,000 men at Chengtu, facing 90,000 chinese... it will be a bloody affair. In a week or so we'll begin the attacks.

Just a friendly reminder, but do you have the Chinese Command HQ prepping for this base and within command range?? Most players remember to prep Army/Corp HQs but forget the Command HQs and the potential 90% it can add to Adjusted AV.

[veji1]

I wouldn't call it a small tactical victory.. It is a big victory. Not an overwhelming victory, not a war altering victory, but a big victory. you killed 300 planes, you sunk a CV and 2 CVEs and 2 BBs (CLs who cares), and you lost nothing in exchange. That was a big strong slap to the face...

It will still hurt for a long while. It can change the dynamics.. he is no longer advancing at will, he will probably feel some pressure as in "shit I got 5/6 months set back and now he will have time to finish off China and reinforce everything with IJA troops, bugger, my advance will be slowed down everywhere."

You where really unlucky that you couldn't land one torp hit on Hornet or Lex that would have slowed them down enough for the kill... torps are the difference maker,without them CVs can still go fast enough to escape.

Anyway big kudos from one of your critics/admirers...

[veji1]

Are you sure some of the hits weren't Fows ? I am still baffled at how Lex escaped this.. normally with 2 torps + a few bombs and fires, she should have been slow enough to get nailed... Too bad, a second CV would have been nice.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I would schedule a night time port attack for Townsville with as many planes as possible. Try to do so when the moonlight is getting close to 100% as that seems to help. Keep the DL high for the base. A few Glen equipped subs off the base. A SC TF followed by a BB TF to hit the port may be worth your while if you can time it to hit at night. You may not sink anything, but hopefully you can add more damage to his CVs. A few bomb hits would be nice. [;)]

Well, Micheal, i don't like the idea very much... my crack pilots are too precious to risk a night attack and the AA fire....The moon is descending in this period and i think i've had enough good luck not to ask the blind lady too much[:D]

About the command HQ....unfortunately it's prepping for Kunming cause i thought i would have reach it sooner... while i got stopped 1 hex east of it... I'll give a try without it and if it doesn't work we'll switch it back for Chengtu, but will mean wait some 3 more months....[:o]

Finger crossed....i hope he's out of supplies there....

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: veji1

Are you sure some of the hits weren't Fows ? I am still baffled at how Lex escaped this.. normally with 2 torps + a few bombs and fires, she should have been slow enough to get nailed... Too bad, a second CV would have been nice.

Yes, some torps and also some bombs didn't show any damage caused during the replay, so i think they are affected by FOW...

The enemy managed to get everything to Townsville...i stayed 9 hexes from Townsville and i kept all my search at max 7 hexes, not to risk of reacting towards the coast.

Let's not get greedy guys. We had a victory and we got out without a single sys damage...let's be happy and prepare for the future battles

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: veji1

I wouldn't call it a small tactical victory.. It is a big victory. Not an overwhelming victory, not a war altering victory, but a big victory. you killed 300 planes, you sunk a CV and 2 CVEs and 2 BBs (CLs who cares), and you lost nothing in exchange. That was a big strong slap to the face...

It will still hurt for a long while. It can change the dynamics.. he is no longer advancing at will, he will probably feel some pressure as in "shit I got 5/6 months set back and now he will have time to finish off China and reinforce everything with IJA troops, bugger, my advance will be slowed down everywhere."

You where really unlucky that you couldn't land one torp hit on Hornet or Lex that would have slowed them down enough for the kill... torps are the difference maker,without them CVs can still go fast enough to escape.

Anyway big kudos from one of your critics/admirers...

I agree it changed the dynamics. Now Brad won't be able, even with the arrival of the Hellcats, to make any big jump untill the Essexs start to arrive. by that time i should have the Taiho (40 days), the Amagi and the Unryu (both 103 days) and, above all, with my Cvs fully equipped with Judy and Jills. So he will have to be very very carefull.

What really suprises me is that QBall didn't use any sub for this operation. My search sees only 3 subs in the whole Solomons area...[&:]

[veji1]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Yes, some torps and also some bombs didn't show any damage caused during the replay, so i think they are affected by FOW...

The enemy managed to get everything to Townsville...i stayed 9 hexes from Townsville and i kept all my search at max 7 hexes, not to risk of reacting towards the coast.

Let's not get greedy guys. We had a victory and we got out without a single sys damage...let's be happy and prepare for the future battles

Sure, but now that you confirm some of the hits might be FOW it makes more sense. Anyway you probably put 2 CVs in long term yards and 2 lightly/moderatly damaged. Depending on Yars sizes, etc, 2 of those probably have to go back to the west coast while the other 2 can probably be patched up in PH or Sydney ?

If you look at the allies CV reinforcement queue, what could be the impact of him having :
1 Sunk CV
2 CVs out of use for say 4 months
2 CVs out of use for say 1 month ?

That could give you a better idea of the time you have ahead of you of relative peace.

[GreyJoy]

Consider also that he will need at least 3 months, starting from 4/43, to equip all his CVs with hellcats. I do think that i'm having at least 5 months of relative quiet...i mean that i won't expect a full scale invasion "out of the blue" untill late summer 1943

[JohnDillworth]

He can't fight for 3-6 months. The DB and TB pools are just not that deep. Even if he repairs everything you won't see him until after Hellcats are available. How are your naval pilots and pools? Looks like you didn't take too big of a hit. Can you reload and take the KB on a trip? Something on your shopping list? Even if you don't you might want to cruise around the SW Pacific shipping lanes or dare I say between Hawaii and Pearl for a couple of months and just be a pain in the ass. He can't ambush you