Stalin's fired, I'm in charge! III 1/2- Tullius (Soviet) vs Marquo (Axis)

[M60A3TTS]

TD, have you gone back into hiding? [;)]

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

TD, have you gone back into hiding? [;)]

Nope, I am here [:)]

Nothing really happened. No annihilation that is. I more or less managed to surround (with the Tank Armies) almost every turn some German units but counter-attacks always pushed me back. No German / Soviet annihilation. But at least Marquo has possibly understood he had to retreat (maybe I was correct when I had said the first strike had destroyed the German fortifications 2-3 hexes behind the German frontline, west of Tambov). And that's what he's doing. And this is what I wanted after all. Kursk is not that far so fair play [8D]

I will try to update (currently playing Turn 111).

[TulliusDetritus]

[center]Turn 110[/center]
[center]22 July 1943[/center]

Well, as I said nothing really important happened [:)]

If anything, up north like 2 turns ago he decided to retreat in the northern tip. Ergo his forces now are sort of cut in two. Advancing does not make any sense as my forces are already far from railways. But... I might capture the railway I need after all [8D]

Here I have two Stavka Armies (32nd and 39th) and one Tank Army. The artillery units are all brigades. The divisions are doing the real fighting in the south (aka Operation Crazy Ivan).

[TulliusDetritus]

As I said, in the Tambov, Voronezh areas he's retreated. The big river will be his defensive line, obviously.

Still, I am more interested in what happens in the north of this place.

[TulliusDetritus]

Well, not an update. Banquets & booze are waiting

Still, Merry Christmas! [:D]

[TulliusDetritus]

[center]Turn 111[/center]
[center]29 July 1943[/center]

Ok, here is the update then [8D]

We keep pounding the scummy enemy and all I can say (in fact I can say much more than that) is I love the Artillery / Rocket Divisions thing! Remember that I keep them truly concentrated (except a half dozen in the south: Operation Crazy Anatoly that is).

And whilst we take no rest in Sicily they are having a good time! [8D]

[center][/center]

[TulliusDetritus]

As for the south, I wanted Marquo to abandon a bulge and then grab a particular rail hex. It's been done. I guess the presence of two stavka armies + one tank army + the artillery divisions finally convinced him.

Now I plan to push a little bit in the north, so I redirect these Stavka reserves. After all Marquo can now hide behind a big river (chicken!).

This movement (and if everything goes well obviously) might convince him to leave another bulge (the Boguchar area). Another tank army NW of that place might send him the message I want him to receive [;)]

We will see.

[Wuffer]

Fine, but to be honest, I can't follow your logic - why attacking in the north? with the reconquest of Stalingrad operations at his 'neck' should be able, hitting him as far south as possible.
He makes a stand _before_ the Don... with minors?

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Wuffer
Fine, but to be honest, I can't follow your logic - why attacking in the north? with the reconquest of Stalingrad operations at his 'neck' should be able, hitting him as far south as possible.
He makes a stand _before_ the Don... with minors?

Well, first of all I need to grab many hexes if I want to get to the Reich. This is priority #1 to me now in summer 1943. I am hitting very hard in a place where he's concetrated forces (because he noticed I did the same). I still need these hexes or I will never (for real) get in time to Berlin. Will I get there? I don't think so by the way [:)]

By attacking a little bit in the north I am sort ot threatening to surround him (another bulge). And that of course means he might retreat on his own. And again, that's my top priority (grabbing hexes that is). And a little bit in the north I can maneuver.

Attacking in the south I have little options though. No flanks, a small axis of advance. And there is a big river where he will entrench his forces and then bring reserves to back them up.

That's my basically my "logic".

As for the minors, Marquo learned the historical lesson [:D] German units are almost always there to protect them. No easy victims that is. The only place where I could attack defenseless units was in the Leningrad area (the Finns).

I will follow the Soviet historical plan step by step. I will settle old scores with the minors in 1944 [:D]

But now I need to grab hexes, and hexes, and more hexes, please [:)]

[Wuffer]

thx for clearing, TD.
it's allways very easy to judge in a warm armchair as long you are not confrontated with all this minor and nasty details in the field... [:D]

perhaps you are right - it's a bit early for crossing the Don, better waiting for ice. But than...

[M60A3TTS]

I'd be attacking the south with the rifle corps first. Then throw in three tank and three cavalry/mechanized armies. And about 3,000 sturmoviks in support.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

thx for clearing, TD.
it's allways very easy to judge in a warm armchair as long you are not confrontated with all this minor and nasty details in the field... [:D]

perhaps you are right - it's a bit early for crossing the Don, better waiting for ice. But than...

Nah, we're all armchair aficionados [:)]

I am not thinking about a direct approach or frontal assault in this area. Maybe I can indirectly threaten him from the north. Needless to say, the forces in the south will keep attacking if opportunities appear [8D] But no reiforcements, no artillery divisions will be sent there.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS

I'd be attacking the south with the rifle corps first. Then throw in three tank and three cavalry/mechanized armies. And about 3,000 sturmoviks in support.

I have to be a moron but I don't get the air war, really [&:] I have assigned to each of the two fronts in the main offensive area 3 air bases filled with planes = 27 air units.

Then when I want to bomb x German unit (before an attack) ok, some air units can be selected. But when I try to attack the next German unit I want to assault, almost NO air units are available (??). WTF?? There are plenty of them nearby!! why can't I choose them, why don't they appear?

In fact it is as if I had not assigned tons of IL-2s as I cannot put them to good use!

[Klydon]

TD is doing the right thing here. Punch someplace on the line. If the Germans don't respond, then keep punching until they do because it drains off important forces from other sectors of the line where the "real" fight is taking place. Velikiye Luki is a fine example of putting minor pressure someplace else from the main fight (Stalingrad area) that drew off important German reserves that could have headed to Stalingrad instead. Fighting around Rzhev also kept the Germans from sending more help to the Stalingrad area as well.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Klydon

TD is doing the right thing here. Punch someplace on the line. If the Germans don't respond, then keep punching until they do because it drains off important forces from other sectors of the line where the "real" fight is taking place. Velikiye Luki is a fine example of putting minor pressure someplace else from the main fight (Stalingrad area) that drew off important German reserves that could have headed to Stalingrad instead. Fighting around Rzhev also kept the Germans from sending more help to the Stalingrad area as well.

Yes, the north and south are simply sideshows. They are supposed to attract forces. The real pounding is in the center [:)] That's where I mercilessly attack turn after turn: the many Front and Stavka Armies rifle corps + 30 artillery / rocket divisions + armored and cavalry corps.

[TulliusDetritus]

Anyway, up north I said I wanted the rail line and I will get it, or at least that's what we hope

The two Stavka armies were gathered and their rifle corps striked backed by all the artillery brigades. The tank army advances and occupies the hex (swamp, let's see if he can dislodge me). I am adjacent to the rail junction now he he he.

No matter what, thet wo stavka armies and the tank army will be kept concentrated and... the orders are... keep pushing or die!

[TulliusDetritus]

And the center aka Operation Crazy Ivan. On this (and the last) turn even my forces near Moscow (rifle corps + the tank corps attached to Western Front) left the cave and striked. Haha serves them right!

Moscow should soon be relieved. Not that it was really threatened in the first place (except from turns 17-23 or so).

As I have said in this area alone I have the circa 30 Breakthrough / Rocket divisions, which are being put to good use every single turn [8D]

[TulliusDetritus]

Rifle Corps were the priority. Now that my arsenal is quite full I am starting to use some APs to build a couple of armored units each turn. I plan to have eleven mechanized corps, as per history IIRC.

I know my tank armies have to contain 2 x Tank Corps + 1 x Mechanized Corps

Therefore there will be six mechanized free corps, which I plan to use as a reserve, but always trying to assign them to a Front (not armies). The Western Front had a tank corps attached many moons ago (they striked this turn near Moscow). And the two fronts involved in the main offensive already have independent tank and cavalry corps attached to them, which are obviously supporting the operations.

[Wuffer]

hmm, that looks much more promising than a few weeks before.
Klydon, the thinking behind attacking south is the forced retreat of the whole north _without_ a fight for every (fortified) hex. But I would be the first to admit that it doesn't matter where you are hitting him aslong as you hitting hard enough - the German infantry should/would/could never ever recouver and that is the decision in the end. [:)]


ms edith: forgot a [:)]

[Wuffer]

like you additional mech corps as long as you could spare the trucks. The result of the unlucky 5th Tank army would have been quite different if there had been two mech XXX
btw, someone advocates somewhere (I forget) to simply rout German units, particularly panzers, instead of mostly unsuccessful pockets - which has proved very effectice in my humple experience.