Rumble in the Southwest witpqs-A vs Andav-J 2011-11-29 to 2017-02-08

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: neilm85uk

That's some victory I'd say. Can he do any significant repairs to Hiyo without retreating to Truk, or the home islands even? That's a good distance with maybe 50% flotation damage and even if she makes it 3-4 months to fix? I'm fairly new to WitP so I don't know but 20% damage to Saratoga in my game is 80+ days to fix. I have a love hate relationship with subs, there's work which I hate, mine sometimes work and I love that...

Major flotation damage requires a drydock to fix. Unless he has expanded the drydock at Soerabaja or Saigon, the nearest one that could take Hiyo would be in Japan or Manila. Going across long stretches of open ocean is risky as pumps and patches can fail and the flooding increase, so it is best to:
1. disband in the nearest safe port to work on removing most of the system damage and all of the minor flotation damage. An AR and naval support HQ can help with this.
2. if flotation is over 50% proceed at cruise speed and follow a route with lots of nearby ports so that if flooding increases you can disband again and bring it down again. This means going up the Solomons - NG-Babeldaob-Philippines to Manila or onward to Formosa/Taiwan - Okinawa - Japan.

Repairs will probably take 6 months dockyard time plus the time enroute to the dockyard and minor repair time before starting out.

[witpqs]

Thanks guys!

What BB said about the repairs. And if Kaga survives, the repair situation for her will be even worse. She, like Saratoga taking so long to repair from less damage, is a converted battle cruiser design. Tough to damage but tough to repair. Shokaku I figure will need to repair but maybe not flotation damage. I'm just hoping that some of the cripples remain in range of Saratoga's air wing, and maybe 60 to 90 fighters (including USA fighters) accompany the strike.

I have subs all over, so no matter which way they go they'll run into somebody.

On a different angle, I presume he lost lots of great pilots. But with the modest level of action so far I figure they can be made up with 'fully trained' pilots right from the reserve. On my end, the only place I might have trouble with that is trained torpedo bomber pilots. There are just fewer groups with which to train them for the USN.

The USMC groups will mostly have to put ashore to get new planes. Only "carrier trained" groups can get new planes while on board ship (Michael says changing that might screw up other things). What I'm wondering is, if I pull a group off of a carrier, does the clock reset for it becoming carrier trained, or does it hold onto its accumulated time? Anybody know? I think I'll post a query for Michael.

[witpqs]

1943 January 29

The Empire captured:


The Allies captured:


There were Imperial amphibious operations at:


There were Allied amphibious operations at:


Victory in China!

Ground combat at 80,47 (near Patung)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 210 troops, 17 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 916

Defending force 35792 troops, 203 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 650

Assaulting units:
110th Division
17th/B Division
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
15th/C Division
13th/C Division
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
71st Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
18th Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps
13th Group Army


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Ground combat at Lanchow (81,34)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 38285 troops, 183 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 947

Defending force 8737 troops, 81 guns, 11 vehicles, Assault Value = 150

Allied adjusted assault: 486

Japanese adjusted defense: 173

Allied assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2214 casualties reported
Squads: 84 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 44 destroyed, 25 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 17 (13 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Allied ground losses:
850 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 90 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
85th Chinese Corps
72nd Chinese Corps
41st Chinese Corps
82nd Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
22nd Group Army
8th War Area
5th War Area
8th Chinese Base Force

Defending units:
53rd Infantry Brigade
19th/C Division

The chase in the Indian Ocean has taken on a new dimension, as the force of 3 x large CL stumbled over IJN oilers!

Day Time Surface Combat, near North Male at 13,29, Range 10,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Kasumi, Shell hits 22, and is sunk
AO Sata, Shell hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AO Tsurumi, Shell hits 22, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Hobart, Shell hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CL Mauritius, Shell hits 1
CL Birmingham, Shell hits 1

Reduced visibility due to Rain
Maximum visibility in Rain: 15,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards...
Range closes to 15,000 yards...
Range closes to 10,000 yards...
CONTACT: Allies radar detects Japanese task force at 10,000 yards
Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 10,000 yards
CL Hobart launches Torpedoes at DD Kasumi at 10,000 yards
CL Mauritius launches Torpedoes at AO Tsurumi at 10,000 yards
CL Mauritius launches Torpedoes at AO Sata at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
CL Birmingham engages DD Kasumi at 5,000 yards
AO Sata sunk by CL Mauritius at 5,000 yards
DD Kasumi engages CL Mauritius at 5,000 yards
CL Mauritius engages AO Tsurumi at 5,000 yards
CL Hobart engages DD Kasumi at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
DD Kasumi engages CL Hobart at 4,000 yards
CL Mauritius engages AO Tsurumi at 4,000 yards
DD Kasumi engages CL Hobart at 4,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
CL Mauritius engages DD Kasumi at 3,000 yards
CL Hobart engages AO Tsurumi at 3,000 yards
Range increases to 5,000 yards
CL Birmingham engages DD Kasumi at 5,000 yards
CL Mauritius engages AO Tsurumi at 5,000 yards
CL Hobart engages AO Tsurumi at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 7,000 yards
CL Birmingham engages AO Tsurumi at 7,000 yards
CL Hobart engages AO Tsurumi at 7,000 yards
Range increases to 9,000 yards
CL Birmingham engages DD Kasumi at 9,000 yards
CL Mauritius engages DD Kasumi at 9,000 yards
CL Hobart engages DD Kasumi at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
CL Mauritius engages DD Kasumi at 10,000 yards
CL Hobart engages DD Kasumi at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
CL Birmingham engages AO Tsurumi at 9,000 yards
CL Hobart engages DD Kasumi at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
CL Mauritius engages DD Kasumi at 10,000 yards
CL Hobart engages DD Kasumi at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
DD Kasumi sunk by CL Mauritius at 8,000 yards
Combat ends with last Japanese ship sunk...


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near North Male at 13,27

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 29 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
D3A1 Val x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 9 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Mauritius
CL Birmingham, Bomb hits 2, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near North Male at 13,27

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 4
D3A1 Val x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Birmingham

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near North Male at 13,29

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 27 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 9
D3A1 Val x 6

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CL Hobart, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

In Burma we have two regiments starting to make a diversionary river-crossing below Imphal. The misdirection will be aided by continuous 4EB attacks on the unit opposing them, rotating squadrons.

Hiyo and Yamashiro were still afloat, but are gone now. Hiyo took some of her air complement with her. Kaga made good speed and was out of range of Saratoga's air group.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Nauru Island at 127,128

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17D Fortress x 12

Allied aircraft losses
B-17D Fortress: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Kunitu Maru
xAK Yosida Maru #3
xAK Tatuharu Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-17D Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb



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Morning Air attack on TF, near Nauru Island at 127,128

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 11

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Kunitu Maru
xAK Yosida Maru #3
xAK Kohoku Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x LB-30 Liberator bombing from 10000 feet *
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb



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Morning Air attack on TF, near Auki at 116,136

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 23 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 3

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Naval Attack: 10 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
582 Ku S-1 with A6M2 Zero (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
(2 plane(s) diverted to support CAP in hex.)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Raid is overhead
5th Sentai/A with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 22000
Raid is overhead



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Stewart Island at 119,139

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 36 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 7

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 16
P-40K Warhawk x 16
F4F-4 Wildcat x 35
SBD-3 Dauntless x 35

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiyo, Bomb hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 12, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
20 x F4F-4 Wildcat sweeping at 10000 feet
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x P-40K Warhawk sweeping at 20000 feet
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
5th Sentai/B with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Raid is overhead
5th Sentai/C with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000
Raid is overhead

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring a Shokaku class CV
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring a Kongo class BB

According to excited scouting reports, there are 11 x enemy fleet CV near Ontong Java. I thought about giving chase to Kaga with the four fleet carriers, but, at her present speed, in two days she would be 26 hexes from their present location, three hexes north of Shortlands. While they could catch her within strike range they would then be putting themselves at too much risk (besides Tulagi, Munda and Shortlands are both size 3 airfields and even Rabaul would be in range). If Kaga remains afloat, and our subs don't catch her, she will be out of the war for most or all of a year.

The Arorae invasion force is at sea on APD ships and lands in three days. That will provide search coverage further on to aid the main Gilberts invasions. The para drops on Rennell Island and Kirakira are probably unneeded now. I might still go through with them for the same reason - to provide forward search bases to aid the initial invasions. In two days the long range search Wildcats will arrive at Canton Island, possibly unloading the following day. Then we'll get a good look at Tarawa. The two ready fast battleships have refueled at Pearl and are leaving for Pago Pago (possibly they would just refuel and divert to join an invasion en route).

What the fleet carriers are going to do is move north to see if they can strike those ships that have been attending Nauru for so long. The escort carriers will hang back, able to provide fighter cover over a quick withdrawal but will not venture forth themselves (going only as far as even with Nanumea). The heavy cruisers (now eight strong) will accompany the fleet carriers, while, the slow battleships will accompany the escort carriers. This mini-op should serve to keep Imperial forces on alert.

Two squadrons of B-24D just finished the trip from Hawaii are now at Vanua Lava. They will probably rest up faster than the 4EB heavily involved in naval strikes the past two days. When enough groups are adequately rested the aerial assault on Tulagi will begin. There are enough groups present to rotate them and keep the effort going every day that weather allows. Tulagi should be closed within a few days regardless of fighter opposition.

[witpqs]

Here is the IO, where everybody is chasing the raiding IJN carriers.

[witpqs]

1943 January 30

The Empire captured:


The Allies captured:


There were Imperial amphibious operations at:


There were Allied amphibious operations at:


No big news in China, just the remnants of the Yenan area defenders getting pushed back again. Next up is a fresh unit, division-sized, dug in. The failed IJA attack near Nanyang will not be counter-attacked as the Chinese units there have almost no supply.

Ground combat at 80,47 (near Patung)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 210 troops, 17 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 919

Defending force 35880 troops, 203 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 660

Allied ground losses:
15 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
110th Division
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
15th/C Division
17th/B Division
13th/C Division
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
18th Chinese Corps
71st Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps
13th Group Army


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 86,38 (near Yenan)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 10740 troops, 93 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 311

Defending force 3690 troops, 31 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 15

Japanese adjusted assault: 189

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 189 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
1700 casualties reported
Squads: 52 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 157 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 15 (15 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 6
Units destroyed 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
4th Ind.Mixed Brigade
12th Indpt Infantry Regiment
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
19th Chinese Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
23rd Chinese Corps
18th Group Army
2nd War Area
6th Group Army
12th Chinese Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 83,45 (near Nanyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4276 troops, 34 guns, 14 vehicles, Assault Value = 139

Defending force 27293 troops, 153 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 887

Japanese adjusted assault: 67

Allied adjusted defense: 676

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 10

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: leaders(+)

Japanese ground losses:
866 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 80 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled

Allied ground losses:
98 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
36th/A Division

Defending units:
55th Chinese Corps
59th Chinese Corps
77th Chinese Corps
33rd Group Army

We have lost contact with the IJN carriers in the Indian Ocean. Search assets are being moved to find them again and the pursuit will continue.

Yamashiro has been sunk for the third time. Man, those battleships are tough!

Morning Air attack on TF, near Stewart Island at 119,138

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 8

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 32
SBD-3 Dauntless x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 7, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
23 x F4F-4 Wildcat sweeping at 10000 feet
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
5th Sentai/B with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 17000
Raid is overhead
5th Sentai/C with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (4 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000
Raid is overhead



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Stewart Island at 119,138

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 5

Allied aircraft
P-40E Warhawk x 17
P-40K Warhawk x 17
SBD-3 Dauntless x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
8 x P-40K Warhawk sweeping at 20000 feet
9 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
5th Sentai/B with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 17000 , scrambling fighters to 9000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 193 minutes
5th Sentai/C with Ki-44-IIa Tojo (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 12000
Raid is overhead

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring BB Yamashiro

Tomorrow the fleet carriers should be in position to strike at any shipping which remains at Nauru. Everything from just north of Tulagi on south was covered in heavy weather today.

[BBfanboy]

Typically it takes 25-30 X 1000 lb bomb hits to do enough system damage and get the fires high enough to burn up a Japanese BB. I don't know if they made the bombs unable to penetrate for game balance or what, but it sure is not realistic. I know that AP bombs come a little later in the game but even the SAP bombs should penetrate 3-4" of deck armor.

About the carrier air groups - I landed Enterprise's air group to continue training while the Big E spent two weeks repairing system damage. There was no loss of "carrier trained" designation. I think you would have to disband or withdraw the unit [or have it destroyed] to lose the designation.

[princep01]

Nicely done Admiral witpqs.  Have you assessed what Admiral Wa had hoped to achieve by committing the IJN CVs in that area.  Was he out to retake Ndeni or was it an effort to creating a decisive Cv battle and wreck the budding Allied offensive.  Whatever the purpose, you have caihiered a couple of CVs and most assuredly wrecked the IJN carrier borne air fleet.  That will not be easy to rebuild to a competent level, much less the level of the pre-war aerial knights!
 
Also, a very special kudo regarding zapping the Bay of Bengal IJN AO fleet.  That will certainly put a halt to raiding in that area for a bit.
 
Well doen all around.!

[witpqs]

Thanks!

I think it was either a) an attack aimed at baiting and destroying carriers, or b) an attack to destroy shipping that has been in and out of Ndeni. 'b' would be to slow down the offensive by sabotaging the base at Ndeni. I doubt there was a plan to make a landing at Ndeni as I saw no indication of troops. Besides, with the other major Allied bases behind Ndeni for support that would be very risky, even downright unlikely to succeed I think.

I figure that Admiral Wa will have the air fleet back up to strength just as soon as enough planes can be requisitioned (12 per week per group will be the limiting factor). I know his training of pilots will not yield pre-war quality except after a couple of years, but his reserves are surely to be highly trained, meaning 70+ in relevant skills. Besides, he might have rotated out his creme de la creme and stuffed them into TRACOM for safe keeping. Those might have actually been the trained replacements in that battle! Some people do that and save the best for opposing the operations that tax the USN carriers the most, like moving on the Marianas.

Finding the AO TF was just luck. The CL TF was out there trying to head off the carriers. Those sightings of an AP must have been an AO. I just hope those were the only AO involved and now the carriers have to conserve fuel!

[princep01]

Oh, and about Yamashiro's repeated resurrection:  This is the result of US Naval pilots being chronic liars.  This is especially true of DB pilots....who claim they never miss.  Near misses are direct directs, bad misses are direct hits and misses somewhere in the Pacific are near misses.  12 hits is really most likely 6.
 
BB Fan Boy's estimates on how many 1000 pound bombs it takes to sink a BB is a little high in my experience, but not far off.  I have gotten them with as few as 12-15 hits, but it generally takes more to sink a BB like Yamashiro.  Yamato, of course,  just shruggs them off.  But, that said, I think she is history now.
 
Whatever, you won a sterling victory and should have IJN licking its numerous wounds for the next 3-6 months.  Hopefully, Kaga's wounds were fatal, but it looks like Wa will be able to save her.  Torpedo plane pilots are lesser liars, but often mistake prematures as hits.

[witpqs]

This is the hurt we put on Yamashiro in the last three turns:

Code: Select all

 011762 1943-01-28 118,137         118,137 Stewart Island       BB   Yamashiro          Bomb hits 2                                                Morning Air attack        
 011791 1943-01-28 119,139         119,139 Stewart Island       BB   Yamashiro          No Damage Noted                                            Afternoon Air attack      
 011793 1943-01-28 119,139         119,139 Stewart Island       BB   Yamashiro          Torpedo hits 2,  heavy damage                              Afternoon Air attack      
 011842 1943-01-29 119,139         119,139 Stewart Island       BB   Yamashiro          Bomb hits 12,  on fire,  heavy damage                      Afternoon Air attack      
 011862 1943-01-30 119,138         119,138 Stewart Island       BB   Yamashiro          Bomb hits 7,  heavy damage                                 Morning Air attack        
 011863 1943-01-30 119,138         119,138 Stewart Island       BB   Yamashiro          Bomb hits 11,  heavy fires,  heavy damage                  Morning Air attack 
 

I assume that the two torpedo hits were real and what slowed her down. Being SAP bombs I suppose they were way less likely to penetrate than AP.

[BBfanboy]

I monitor the text during the combat animation and I have NEVER seen any bomb penetrate BB deck armor. Playing the sandbox game to see what the effects were, it was System Damage and Fires only, until the fire had been burning long enough to start causing engineering damage. Basically, with every Japanese BB sunk by bombs [at least 10 over several scenarios played] when system damage got in the 70 range and heavy fires were present, it burned out. There was never significant engineering or flotation damage.
One unusual occurance - out of hundreds of hits on only one occasion did I get a message saying something like "Secondary Ammunition Explosion", and that was from a bomb that did not penetrate. That explosion did not put the BB in danger of sinking, but did pump up the Sys and Eng damage and Fires.

[princep01]

Yamashiro is toast, in my opinion.  Did you ever get a sunk message or hear sinking sounds taht you thought were from Yamashiro?  Maybe, if it is still adrift and smoldering, a sub will kill it off.
 
BB Fanboy, I agree with and appreciate your observations.  Very interesting.  Like you, I seldom get penetrations on real BBs from 1000 bombs, but I guess I am a little luckier in that I did once get a magazine explosion on Mutsu and it sank,,,that was the one which went down with 12-15 claimed hits.  Also have had that secondary explosion you observed on other BBs that did not sink.
 
Thanks for the info on your observations and experiences.  I have often wondered (as I play only PBM games, never as IJ) what was actually happening to those IJN BBs that got whacked by 1000 bombs.
 
Admiral witpqs, keep up the excellent work.  Admiral Wa is probably mourning the loss of numerous electron ships this day.

[JocMeister]

Congratulation witpqs! Well done! [:)]

[witpqs]

I play with sounds off, as I find them annoying rather than inspiring. The sinking sounds are just a FOW leak anyway, IMO. As for the combat animations, I just press the escape key and let the messages run by at full speed 99.9% of the time. I know, I know...

What BB describes might be pretty realistic for bombs versus battleships. So basically I think that's fine. I haven't look up her stats, but IIRC Yamashiro was a tough old bird. It's lucky that we got a couple of torpedoes into her. BTW, on both follow-up days, Saratoga's torpedo squadron did not make any attacks. They had small fatigue (not zero), so I presume they couldn't find the target in the dicey weather. They would have put her down quickly in her vulnerable state.

Happy New Year, guys! [:)]

[BBfanboy]

I agree that those last 18 bombs would have sunk Yamashiro. With flotation damage already suffered, the fires would have overwhelmed the damage control efforts. Japanese ships seem to have trouble dealing with both at the same time. Must be the "limited number of crew trained to do damage control" thing.

[witpqs]

1943 January 31

The Empire captured:


The Allies captured:


There were Imperial amphibious operations at:


There were Allied amphibious operations at:


A couple of those odd combats in China, one just trivial.

Ground combat at 80,47 (near Patung)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 210 troops, 17 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 922

Defending force 35887 troops, 203 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 662

Allied ground losses:
37 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
15th/C Division
17th/B Division
110th Division
19th Ind.Mixed Brigade
13th/C Division
15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
18th Chinese Corps
2nd Chinese Corps
71st Chinese Corps
4th Chinese Cavalry Corps
13th Group Army


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 78,48 (near Chihkiang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 384 troops, 0 guns, 70 vehicles, Assault Value = 810

Defending force 39363 troops, 242 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 992

Japanese adjusted assault: 28

Allied adjusted defense: 791

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 28

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
20 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
39th Division
15th Tank Regiment
37th Division

Defending units:
28th Chinese Corps
57th Chinese Corps
53rd Chinese Corps
38th New Chinese Division
29th Group Army
23rd Group Army
30th Group Army
20th Group Army
7th Artillery Regiment
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment
4th Heavy Mortar Regiment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 73,49 (near Kweiyang)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1152 troops, 0 guns, 210 vehicles, Assault Value = 361

Defending force 34609 troops, 225 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 972

Japanese adjusted assault: 78

Allied adjusted defense: 651

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 8

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Allied ground losses:
655 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 47 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
4th Ind.Mixed Regiment
66th Infantry Regiment
10th Tank Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
11th Tank Regiment

Defending units:
78th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
50th Chinese Corps
48th Chinese Corps
74th Chinese Corps
5th Chinese Cavalry Corps
56th Chinese Corps
79th Chinese/B Corps

An Imperial sub was reported hit by an aircraft bomb near Christmas Island. The IJA troops near Imphal were bombed as planned. Enterprise is estimated back on line in 10 days. Troops are unloading at Adak. The aim is to have the base in full swing by winter's end and then keep moving westward through the Aleutians chain. After that depends upon events. Resources are being only scarcely provided to this theater.

The air attacks on shipping at Nauru went splendidly. Tracker claims five ships sunk.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Nauru Island at 127,128

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 38
SBD-3 Dauntless x 18
TBF-1 Avenger x 6

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-3 Dauntless: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Tensyo Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires
xAK Yosida Maru #1, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Kohoku Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Kunitu Maru
xAK Yosida Maru #3, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
6 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.
1 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Tensyo Maru
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Yosida Maru #1
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Kohoku Maru
Massive explosion on xAK Yosida Maru #3
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Yosida Maru #3

------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Nauru Island at 127,128

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 17 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 7
SBD-3 Dauntless x 26
TBF-1 Avenger x 22

Allied aircraft losses
TBF-1 Avenger: 5 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Tatuharu Maru, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Tensyo Maru, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Kohoku Maru, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
xAK Kunitu Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Yosida Maru #3, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
PB Kaikei Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Yosida Maru #1, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
10 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.
8 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
12 x TBF-1 Avenger launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 22.4in Mk 13 Torp.
6 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Kohoku Maru
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Yosida Maru #3
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Yosida Maru #1
Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Tatuharu Maru

------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Nauru Island at 127,128

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
SBD-3 Dauntless x 4

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Tatuharu Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD-3 Dauntless releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAK Tatuharu Maru

The invasion of Arorae should go right in tomorrow. The heavy cruisers will stand 40nm SW to provide some cover against surface attackers, while the escort carriers and slow battleships stand 40nm SW of them. The fleet carriers are beginning the journey back to Suva to replenish, swinging near to Nanumea in case they need to react. The escort carriers and heavy cruisers will not remain near Arorae for more than the one day. Sightings of our subs indicate that maybe there are carriers near Rabaul, perhaps to the south.

Tomorrow 4 x 4EB groups will hit Tulagi, accompanied by a P-38 sweep. The following day 4 different 4EB groups will hit the base. A group each of B-25C and B-26 will be available at Ndeni to join in on either the second or third day. There are believed 47 fighters based at Tulagi. This is a departure from the earlier plan; instead of ambushing the fighters as they try to intervene in para landings, Tulagi will be closed by main force. The para drops in the southern Solomons will still be made a short time before the main Gilberts operation.

The Imperial carriers in the Indian Ocean are well and truly cloaked. Perhaps by weather, perhaps they moved into a search-dead zone near the edge of the map that is more or less opposite Goa. One of the aircraft equipped task forces will move through that area. Other forces will continue on as before, then most will make for Colombo to refuel. That will put them in a good position to intercept. Some will be held back in case of a suicide mission aimed back at the shipping lanes.

Here you can see some of the goings on in China. In two places we have movements underway to deny supply to enemy salients.

[BBfanboy]

Hmmm - I wonder if the sinking of those AOs in the IO left the CVE out of fuel and you are searching too far south?
OTOH, the last map you posted of the area appears to show it making post-haste south of your forces and I would guess a curve toward the DEI or Strait of Malacca. Nearest fuel centre would be Madang on NE Sumatra.

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Hmmm - I wonder if the sinking of those AOs in the IO left the CVE out of fuel and you are searching too far south?
OTOH, the last map you posted of the area appears to show it making post-haste south of your forces and I would guess a curve toward the DEI or Strait of Malacca. Nearest fuel centre would be Madang on NE Sumatra.

That's the reason for the assignment of a CA group to go search the dead zone with float planes. As far as moving really fast, I don't think they could have gotten by my aerial search before it was reconfigured. They are CVE, so hopefully not that fast. If I do miss them and have TFs refuel at Colombo, I might be able to catch them turning the corner.

One thing - the last turn that I saw them the scouting report said they had 2 x AO with them. I discounted it as a false sighting. But just maybe the Karachi area was the real target and there were two separate AO groups to refuel them at different points. Then they stumbled across the Bombay convoy lane when it was pretty full. The problem with that narrative is that Walter already knew about the Bombay convoy lane because his subs hit it several times. So, I really don't know.

[BBfanboy]

That's why this game is like an action movie - the good guys are chasing the bad guys but you don't know if they will escape or try to ambush the good guys when they get around a corner.

The whole gambit to risk a CVE out there seems a bit much. Supply convoys are not critical to you, and his small Val squadron could not hope to sink enough of them to make a difference. He has already lost at least half of those Vals to flak. Only hitting a convoy full of reinforcements would be worth the risk.
Two sets of AOs also seems a bit much for a single CVE TF, and the lack of a credible SCTF in support is puzzling. D'ya think the CVE could be bait for a trap? Mini KB off NW Sumatra maybe?

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That's why this game is like an action movie - the good guys are chasing the bad guys but you don't know if they will escape or try to ambush the good guys when they get around a corner.

The whole gambit to risk a CVE out there seems a bit much. Supply convoys are not critical to you, and his small Val squadron could not hope to sink enough of them to make a difference. He has already lost at least half of those Vals to flak. Only hitting a convoy full of reinforcements would be worth the risk.
Two sets of AOs also seems a bit much for a single CVE TF, and the lack of a credible SCTF in support is puzzling. D'ya think the CVE could be bait for a trap? Mini KB off NW Sumatra maybe?

I paid some mind to that possibility at first, but after 7 carriers were positively identified in the Solomons - how many carriers has he got in January '43? Our guys already sank 3 or 4 (4 IIRC) of the CVL/CVE varieties. So, no, I don't think this is a trap. I think it was a raid in its own right. Although, I wonder if that "AP" sighting was one of the AO deliberately put for multiple turns where it could be seen, was in fact bait for the CVE to spring the trap? He might not have known that the TF was sighted out there, in which case it just served as advance alarm.

Here is Intel Monkey on IJN carriers in the combat reports.
(See Attachment)
The sort is Ship Type + Ship Name + Date, so you see each individual ship from first combat report to last.
Sunk (by my estmation)
Zuiho
Shoho
Ryujo
Hosho
Hiyo

Note: The 'code' segment to display all that Intel Monkey combat report data must have been too long, because it totally messed up the display of the post for me. Instead, see the attachment. If you download the file make certain that you re-size your text editor window wide enough that a record needs only one line.

Another note: Click on the attachment, then click on the file name in the box that comes up. This will give you a small pop-up window with the text displayed. Then, click on the little box next to the X in the upper right-hand corner of the window to maximize the window, and it will display much better. Most likely each record will be one line (unless you have a small PC screen).