Norway - Germany Convoy ?

[Hellfirejet]

Can anybody tell me the reason behind the ommision off this vital Convoy between Narvik - Kuxhaven ?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Can anybody tell me the reason behind the ommision off this vital Convoy between Narvik - Kuxhaven ?

warspite1

kirk23 remember the scale we have in this game. Every single situation cannot be represented - or its no longer a strategic level game. The main supply was through the Baltic (via the Gulf of Bothnia) and this is represented. The winter route via Narvik is not.

[Hellfirejet]

Yep I know this,but the fact remains both routes were in use,Norway - Germany via the North sea,Sweden - Germany via the Baltic,if the game needs a reason why more ship counters are needed,then Convoy Attack & Protection is a very good one!I think the more convoys the game has the more reason to have ships there to protect the vital trade .[;)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Yep I know this,but the fact remains both routes were in use,Norway - Germany via the North sea,Sweden - Germany via the Baltic,if the game needs a reason why more ship counters are needed,then Convoy Attack & Protection is a very good one!I think the more convoys the game has the more reason to have ships there to protect the vital trade .[;)]

warspite1

Like you kirk23 I am a naval man at heart [:)] and would love to see a really detailed naval game of the period, but that is not what CTGW is - or pretends to be.

I don't think this game needs any reason above what is patently obvious to everyone - the naval game is, as the developers readily acknowledge, not up to the high standard set by the land game.

However, I think we need to be realistic as to what we want in a strategic level game - and what we think the developers will allow (if indeed they are prepared to do anything).

While World In Flames proves you can have a strategic level game and yet have individual ship counters - I do not think that is necessary or warranted here.

As I said before, if I get any encouragement from Lordz I will put some numbers down, but intuitively, I think we are only talking about 10-12 counters as a very maximum for the Royal Navy (others much less).

I think the only ship that does deserve her own counter is a certain Queen Elizabeth-class battleship [;)] Any ideas who I mean?

[Hellfirejet]

Yes Warspite was a grand old lady,and her rudder problem at Jutland saved a great many sailors,she took alot of damage but proved our Dreadnoughts were still might tough ships,as the only Dreadnought lost by Britain was due to mines and not gun fire Rule Britannia !!

Back to the game I note that only 6 Convoys are in the game,1 French,4 British & 1 German ?

Below Convoy data from in game Lua scripts.

DefineConvoy(0, 0, 58, 100, 10, 10) -- USA low
DefineConvoy(1, 0, 6, 100, 20, 5) -- Canada high
DefineConvoy(1, 17, 32, 100, 20, 15) -- Canada center
DefineConvoy(1, 137, 76, 100, 10, 12) -- Afrika west
DefineConvoy(1, 39, 76, 100, 10, 8) -- Afrika east
DefineConvoy(2, 116, 0, 30, 5, 7) -- Sweden

No Mediterranean Convoys plus loads of others,again less targets for U Boats [:D]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Yes Warspite was a grand old lady,and her rudder problem at Jutland saved a great many sailors,she took alot of damage but proved our Dreadnoughts were still might tough ships,as the only Dreadnought lost by Britain was due to mines and not gun fire Rule Britannia !!

Back to the game I note that only 6 Convoys are in the game,1 French,4 British & 1 German ?

Below Convoy data from in game Lua scripts.

DefineConvoy(0, 0, 58, 100, 10, 10) -- USA low
DefineConvoy(1, 0, 6, 100, 20, 5) -- Canada high
DefineConvoy(1, 17, 32, 100, 20, 15) -- Canada center
DefineConvoy(1, 137, 76, 100, 10, 12) -- Afrika west
DefineConvoy(1, 39, 76, 100, 10, 8) -- Afrika east
DefineConvoy(2, 116, 0, 30, 5, 7) -- Sweden

No Mediterranean Convoys plus loads of others,again less targets for U Boats [:D]

warspite1

The Africa East must be the one that comes through Suez and goes through the Med.

[Myrddraal]

The 'Africa East' convoy comes up through the Suez and through the med.

(if indeed they are prepared to do anything)

We certainly are, but I hope you understand that what we can do through patches is limited. We can tweak game rules, stats and starting conditions, but we can't tear up the rulebook and start from scratch.

[Hellfirejet]

Photo HMS Warspite !

[Hellfirejet]

Cheers I missed that,I'm loving the game by the way,just wish the Naval game was more historical if possible,plus any chance of a modders guide being made available .[:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Myrddraal

The 'Africa East' convoy comes up through the Suez and through the med.

(if indeed they are prepared to do anything)

We certainly are, but I hope you understand that what we can do through patches is limited. We can tweak game rules, stats and starting conditions, but we can't tear up the rulebook and start from scratch.

warspite1

So the kind of ideas I floated in the "Naval Game" thread (post 29) are these too much? Sorry I have no idea what can be done/can't be done with a patch!

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Photo HMS Warspite !

warspite1

Nice one! [:)] She's not quite as beautiful in WWI guise but she's still

[ulver]

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Can anybody tell me the reason behind the ommision off this vital Convoy between Narvik - Kuxhaven ?

Narvik - Kuxhaven ?

I think a Narvik – Kuxhaven convoy hugging the Norwegian coast would be a great addition. Sinking it would give the royal navy something to do and we could potentially get a Jutland type engagement when a German battleship sortie to sink the British cruisers destroying the Norwegian convoy. Just a 1 strength (10BP) additional convoy would be great. Anyone who would object? – I see only an upside to adding it.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: ulver

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Can anybody tell me the reason behind the ommision off this vital Convoy between Narvik - Kuxhaven ?

Narvik - Kuxhaven ?

I think a Narvik – Kuxhaven convoy hugging the Norwegian coast would be a great addition. Sinking it would give the royal navy something to do and we could potentially get a Jutland type engagement when a German battleship sortie to sink the British cruisers destroying the Norwegian convoy. Just a 1 strength (10BP) additional convoy would be great. Anyone who would object? – I see only an upside to adding it.

warspite1

So what do you propose? Removing a convoy point from the Baltic convoy?

[ulver]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: ulver

ORIGINAL: kirk23

Can anybody tell me the reason behind the ommision off this vital Convoy between Narvik - Kuxhaven ?

Narvik - Kuxhaven ?

I think a Narvik – Kuxhaven convoy hugging the Norwegian coast would be a great addition. Sinking it would give the royal navy something to do and we could potentially get a Jutland type engagement when a German battleship sortie to sink the British cruisers destroying the Norwegian convoy. Just a 1 strength (10BP) additional convoy would be great. Anyone who would object? – I see only an upside to adding it.

warspite1

So what do you propose? Removing a convoy point from the Baltic convoy?

Since it would get sunk 95% of the time that hardly seems fair. I would balance it by giving the Russians a nice fat 5 Point convoy though the Black Sea that can only get there if the Entente size Constantinople to represented the enormous boost it would have provided to both Russian morale and her economy to have the straits opened. Yes it would only get there 1% of the time but like the Norwegian convoy it would give us something to fight over and provide added choice of game play.

[Hellfirejet]

Added game play is my main objective,and more official convoys in the game, can only help the naval game,I see no down side ?[;)]

[FOARP]

Disagree: having a convoy that never does anything but get sunk would be annoying as hell. Germany already has its convoys, raiding them via submarine makes for an interesting challenge, adding more through the North Sea adds nothing top the game.

Convoys the ARE missing though:

- Italy's from Somalia/Eritrea via the Suez Canal (say, a single convoy every 20 turns or so)

- Portugal's convoys from Angola, Mozambique, and the Far East via the Atlantic and the Suez Canal (same regularity as Italy).

- Convoys from the Dutch East Indies and Suriname for the Netherlands (same regularity)

- Spain's convoys from Spanish Guinea (one convoy every 40 turns via the Atlantic)

- Russia's convoys trading with America through the Dardanelles and the Atlantic after the Dardanelles have been forced (same regularity as Italy)

[Hellfirejet]

[quote]ORIGINAL: FOARP

Disagree: having a convoy that never does anything but get sunk would be annoying as hell. Germany already has its convoys, raiding them via submarine makes for an interesting challenge, adding more through the North Sea adds nothing top the game.

I note that you disagree to the Narvik - Cuxhaven Convoy,I should point out that this convoy was not just a winter months convoy,IE opporated when the Baltic was more ice bound,also another superb WW1 game,uses this convoy route all year round as well as the baltic convoy,see photo blue line Narvik - Cuxhaven,the Iron Ore run was not its only use,Germany also supplied Sweden with other goods including food!


This Convoy might get sunk all the time as you say and from your point of view that would be annoying,but I look at it differently,it gives Germany something to protect be that by Cruiser or Submarine,also Britain needs to try and stop this convoy,more than likely by sending cruisers and Submarines for the job,which gives us more reason for having navys.

[Hellfirejet]

Convoys the ARE missing though:

- Italy's from Somalia/Eritrea via the Suez Canal (say, a single convoy every 20 turns or so)

- Portugal's convoys from Angola, Mozambique, and the Far East via the Atlantic and the Suez Canal (same regularity as Italy).

- Convoys from the Dutch East Indies and Suriname for the Netherlands (same regularity)

- Spain's convoys from Spanish Guinea (one convoy every 40 turns via the Atlantic)

- Russia's convoys trading with America through the Dardanelles and the Atlantic after the Dardanelles have been forced (same regularity as Italy)

The more convoys in game the better the naval game will become[:)]