The "What am I doing wrong AAR" for 2nd Kharkov

[jonny211]

Hi HHWN,

In a mud turn air units suffer the attacking (red) and defensive (blue) penalties. I think their range is cut as well.

Try and catch the Russian fighters at their airfields (town hexes), Izium may be a good place to start. Attack with fighter units for maximum carnage.

[heyhellowhatsnew]

jonny211 and Bonners you have no idea how much i'm slapping my forehead right now because i'm like "Oh God i'm such an idiot, these posts are so brilliant." I have no idea why I never thought of attacking russian fighters at their airfields (facepalm) or that SchG and JG were different classes for different things. I read the historical descriptions and I was like oh okay, i guess they're all kinda bombers and used them to attack any hex that I was planning on attacking regardless of what the enemy had.

Since this turn is heavy snow, I should just focus on repostioning my units to prepare for the next attacks for next turn?

Also you'll notice that I never used recon, because I forgot how. I keep telling myself before I start a turn to look it up in the manual but I keep forgetting.

One more thing:

ORIGINAL: Bonners

As the 44th infantry has managed to keep a bridgehead across the river I'd also be looking to reinforce that area over the river with panzers. It is good clear attacking terrain to try and cut the attacking Soviet forces off. It is a long time since I've played it, so this strategy depends on you having time to move your panzers into position.

So I attack enemy hexes with infantry and then use my tanks to advance through the enemy hex i just broke through?

[Bonners]

ORIGINAL: heyhellowhatsnew

jonny211 and Bonners you have no idea how much i'm slapping my forehead right now because i'm like "Oh God i'm such an idiot, these posts are so brilliant." I have no idea why I never thought of attacking russian fighters at their airfields (facepalm) or that SchG and JG were different classes for different things. I read the historical descriptions and I was like oh okay, i guess they're all kinda bombers and used them to attack any hex that I was planning on attacking regardless of what the enemy had.

Since this turn is heavy snow, I should just focus on repostioning my units to prepare for the next attacks for next turn?

Also you'll notice that I never used recon, because I forgot how. I keep telling myself before I start a turn to look it up in the manual but I keep forgetting.

One more thing:

ORIGINAL: Bonners

As the 44th infantry has managed to keep a bridgehead across the river I'd also be looking to reinforce that area over the river with panzers. It is good clear attacking terrain to try and cut the attacking Soviet forces off. It is a long time since I've played it, so this strategy depends on you having time to move your panzers into position.

So I attack enemy hexes with infantry and then use my tanks to advance through the enemy hex i just broke through?

If there are any weak units around, then yes attack on the rain turn. I dont fly recon that much TBH, I have better uses for my aircraft. There is recon available to a limited degree anyway. Depending on the strength of your units you will be able to see some details of the opposing Russian units, put simply, the more units you have nearby the more details you'll be able to see on the Russian units.

As for attacking, it depends really. If it a clear hex then I will use panzers as they will generally crush Russian infantry and breakthrough the line quicker, that is why I was suggesting moving panzers to that point, there are some clear hexes you can fight through and hopefully break the Russian line. General rule of thumb for me is cites and fortifications attack with infantry supported by Stugs, across rivers attack with infantry, occasionally supported by tanks if I'm desperate and for clear hexes that is where your tanks come into their own. Break up the enemy entrenchment first with air and artillery and then blast on through with the tanks. Where possibly I like to attack with a whole panzer division intact, so I have the two motorized infantry regiments and the tank regiment attacking together.

I know the symbols are confusing as they are slightly different to the normal symbols, but you should also note that each German division (whether panzer or infantry) has a fourth unit which is an artillery unit. Obviously this units doesnt go into the attack, but blasts with artillery first. Again, you need to check its supply level to make sure it can do the full barrage effect.

[Reconvet]

As I'm not familiar with this scenario just a few general tipps:

I see you used a panzer regiment to attack an urban hex. Not ideal, as tanks get their attack value halved doing this. Use them - and risk them taking casualties - on open terrain only if the situation allows it, as they are your best overrun tool (they have the necessary speed for pursuing and breaking weakened retreated enemy units). If you play longer scenarios like Case Blue or Trappenjagd in a pbem, the Axis player should be very careful not to burn them out too soon, as the replacement rate for German tanks is very low. So I'd strongly suggest to tackle urban/hill/forrest hexes with infantry only whenever possible.

In general you have got the hang of how and where to attack, but down south you got a very bloody nose attacking a hill hex. There you probably attacked without reducing the entrenchment level enough. The enemy defends longer due to more slowly taking casualties when nicely entrenched, so you can do your attacking forces a huge favour if you soften up urban/hill/forrest hexes more thoroughly, as your chance to win will be significantly higher and your own losses lower (the sooner the enemy retreats or breaks in a battle, the better for you). Softening up a hex with levelbombers and artillery does both lower entrenchment AND has a chance to disrupt defenders (white figures in the column where losses - red - show up), and disrupted defenders don't fire back.

So if you want to get a nice kill and win ratio with your attacks, don't attack when you don't have a good feeling after inspecting both attacking and defending forces
a) for their relative readiness levels (don't attack well rested defenders when your troops have been driven too hard - my regiments hardly ever attack with readiness lower than 85),
b) supply (whenever possible don't attack with supply lower than 1, like this enemies seem to take higher casualties) and
c) remaining action points (the lower the action point level of your regiments is, the sooner they'll stop firing at their enemies, and I personally really hate not to take a hex because my attackers ran out of action points...).

Sorry for this wall of text, I'll hand you back your AAR now. [:)]


Edit: Bonners beat me with panzer infos, I really should resort to shorter posts or type faster... [:D]

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: heyhellowhatsnew
...
Since this turn is heavy snow, I should just focus on repostioning my units to prepare for the next attacks for next turn?
...

Just another sidenote: Moving and attacking in mud (heavy rain/snow) costs your units more AP and readiness, so be careful with how far you move them. Make some tests for yourself and compare the effects of moving different unit types in mud/nonmud turns. During mud turns I hardly ever move my units more than 1 hex (possible exception motorized/mechanized units along rails and roads).

[wodin]

Your brave..I'm reasonably experienced wargamer but never really get on with large scenarios..I found the linked campaign to be the best in this game for my preferences.

[heyhellowhatsnew]

ORIGINAL: Reconvet

ORIGINAL: heyhellowhatsnew
...
Since this turn is heavy snow, I should just focus on repostioning my units to prepare for the next attacks for next turn?
...

Just another sidenote: Moving and attacking in mud (heavy rain/snow) costs your units more AP and readiness, so be careful with how far you move them. Make some tests for yourself and compare the effects of moving different unit types in mud/nonmud turns. During mud turns I hardly ever move my units more than 1 hex (possible exception motorized/mechanized units along rails and roads).

No, the purpose of this AAR really is to ask the community (beg the community really) to help me figure out what i've done wrong and how I can improve. This is a knowledgeable and great community and I thought instead of asking general questions, if I made it into an AAR, you would all be able to point out my mistakes so I can learn!

Please everyone keep posting and pointing out my errors! I am in all of your debts and owe you all so many beers.

One (really stupid) question

you see in this pic



What do those numbers mean? for example, the most right unit is part of the 106th, but below it it says 24. What does the 24 mean?

[heyhellowhatsnew]

Also, as I advance, should I be moving my HQ up too?

[Bonners]

Your units need to be in range of their parent HQ, there are two ways to check this. One, if you click on the unit and go into the details tab you will see one bit of information which states 'HQ power', you want this to ideally be at 100% which shows the unit is in range of its HQ. The other way to check is to click on the HQ unit and all its subordinate units will then be highlighted. You will also see a green overlay on the map, this is the range of the HQ. At the edges of its range you will see other colours, which show that the units are on the edge of the HQ's range. Why is this important? Well go back to the details tab and look at the figures under the HQ power stat; depending on the strength of the HQ unit there will be a combat modifier - this can be quite high especially for some of the German HQ units.

The big number on each unit is to give an idea of the raw numbers left in the unit. It is combination of its infantry, tanks, guns, transport etc... I think the actual breakdown is somewhere in the manual, but although this number is important I'm always looking at things like readiness, experience, morale and integrity as mroe important factors in judging a units strength.

[Reconvet]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Your brave..I'm reasonably experienced wargamer but never really get on with large scenarios..I found the linked campaign to be the best in this game for my preferences.

Where and how to find pleasure is a very individual thing. Large scenarios do eat away larger amounts of time, that's for sure. I have a great time learning from my mistakes, and seeing my plans - or plan changes which were forced upon me by my opponent or by a competent AI - fall into place is extremely rewarding. More so in larger scenarios, where I find myself pondering over where and how to commit scarce resources to achieve what you intend to. I really encourage everybody to give these larger scenarios a try, because a pbem with somebody who is at a comparable spot on the learning curve can really multiply the fun you have.

[wodin]

Still not for me..I get immersed in the game more with smaller units..I can picture it more in my head I suppose..where as the big scenarios become more a puzzle than a wargame, if you get what I mean. Also I just get confused. Give me large tactical game I OK though. So really it's the operational aspect I find to daunting. As for PBEM..not for me at all..I hate being tied to a game and end up resenting it. Then afterwards I can't play against the AI is it would have become obvious what it's weaknesses are. So PBEM in the end ruins a game for me.

[heyhellowhatsnew]

I plan on asking a DC:CB vet to play me PBEM after this game is over so they can point out my mistakes

[heyhellowhatsnew]

ORIGINAL: Bonners

Your units need to be in range of their parent HQ, there are two ways to check this. One, if you click on the unit and go into the details tab you will see one bit of information which states 'HQ power', you want this to ideally be at 100% which shows the unit is in range of its HQ. The other way to check is to click on the HQ unit and all its subordinate units will then be highlighted. You will also see a green overlay on the map, this is the range of the HQ. At the edges of its range you will see other colours, which show that the units are on the edge of the HQ's range. Why is this important? Well go back to the details tab and look at the figures under the HQ power stat; depending on the strength of the HQ unit there will be a combat modifier - this can be quite high especially for some of the German HQ units.

The big number on each unit is to give an idea of the raw numbers left in the unit. It is combination of its infantry, tanks, guns, transport etc... I think the actual breakdown is somewhere in the manual, but although this number is important I'm always looking at things like readiness, experience, morale and integrity as mroe important factors in judging a units strength.

[&o] Seriously Bonners you are amazing. I cannot thank you enough.

I will post the next turn after I wake up. Been up since midnight, worked till 5:30. That way I can wake up with a clear head with all the awesome tips you've all given me.

[heyhellowhatsnew]

It's 2pm, i'm at work. Everyone is in meetings.. It's time to post TURN 4 YEAAAHH *death metal plays*

Where we last left our totally not evil german heroes




We are told its snowing and raining heavily this round, thus, limited movements. Which is good since I can re-arrange (a little) my units based on suggestions given by you lovely people. But bad because I WANT TO ATTACK DEATH TO ALL COMMUNISTS..



Ahem.

So, we start with a very, very, very thorough examination of our map so move our units into the best position as possible to continue to push next turn.

By the way, here are the causalities so far



As a babby grognard I say this is great! I killed more than they killed me. But I know deep down inside I could have done better. There are many notes for me to write to german parents back home that due to the leadership of General Heyhellowhatsnew, their child died because he was ordered to attack up a hill with a wrench for the glory of the reich.

Anyway, back to the map. Lets start with out HQs and see how far they are from our front so they can maximize smashing for our units.

Since this is primarily no combat turn, I will just show you the movements I made:



In this image, You can see I moved the HQ units up and tried to reposition the units close to the link (namely the 389th) to prepare for their attack next turn (weather permitting)



Again, I move my HQ units closer to the link, as well as move my panzers closer to the bridgehead the 44th currently holds. You can also see that I reconed quite a bit this turn to see what is ahead. It only appears to be one line of defense which is great.

I plan on bombing Izium as instructed to get rid of their Soviet airforce next turn.



This last turn again shows me moving up the HQs and repositioning units to take the town next turn. I save my commander points so that they can use offensive cards next turn. I want to break the Soviets back on turn 5. I have had enough of them...

In fact:



From this picture, I might be able to do a pincer move that cuts off the soviets' front in the middle. That's a long term goal if all goes well. But it ends with the 60th and 44th to meet in the middle and high five each other.

This is the map at the end of my turn:




This is the map after the Soviets move:




They cut off my bridgehead on the 44th and breakthrough the line up north. Sigh

Goddammit why did they get good attacks during a SNOW AND RAINFALL TURN
I will play another turn later today.

As always, any hints or tips are appreciated.

[heyhellowhatsnew]

Germany Turn 5: Interlude

Oberst Heyhellowhatsnew is alone in his office cleaning his maschinenkarabiner, deep in thought and grief over the latest soviet counter-offensive. When suddenly, his second in command, Oberstleutnant Lily Sloane, bursts into his office.

Oberstleutnant Lily Sloane: You son of a bitch.

Oberst Heyhellowhatsnew: This really isn't the time!

Lily Sloane: Okay, I don't know jack about operational warfare, but everybody out there thinks that staying here and fighting The Soviets is suicide! They're just afraid to come in here in say it!

Heyhellowhatsnew: The crew is accustomed to following my orders.

Lily Sloane: They're probably accustomed to your orders making sense!

Heyhellowhatsnew: None of them understand The Soviets as I do! No one does. No one can.

Lily Sloane: What is that supposed to mean?

Heyhellowhatsnew: Six years ago, they captured me and took me into their "collective". I had their marxist documents implanted throughout my brain. I was linked to the hive mind Lenin. Every trace of individuality erased. I was one of them. So, you can imagine my dear that I have a somewhat unique perspective on The Soviets and I know how to fight them. Now, if you will excuse me, I have work to do.

Lily Sloane: I am such an idiot. It's so simple. The Soviets hurt you, and now you're going to hurt them back.

Heyhellowhatsnew: In our training, we don't succumb to revenge. We ubermensch have a more evolved sensibility.

Lily Sloane: Bullshit! I saw the look on your face when you shot those Soviets in Chugulev. You were almost enjoying it!

Heyhellowhatsnew: How dare you?

Lily Sloane: Oh, come on, Oberst! You're not the first man to get a thrill from murdering someone! I see it all the time!

Heyhellowhatsnew: GET OUT!

Lily Sloane: Or what?! You'll kill me?! Like you killed Soldat Lynch?!

Heyhellowhatsnew: There was no way to save him.

Lily Sloane: You didn't even try! Where was your evolved sensibility then?!

Heyhellowhatsnew: I don't have time for this!

Lily Sloane: Oh, hey! I'm sorry! I didn't mean to interrupt your little quest. Captain Ahab has to hunt his whale. . .

Heyhellowhatsnew: What?

Lily Sloane: You do have books at the academy. . .?

Heyhellowhatsnew: This is not about revenge. . .

Lily Sloane: Liar!

Heyhellowhatsnew: This is about saving the future of humanity from communism!

Lily Sloane: OBERST, CALL OFF THE DAMN OFFENSIVE!

Heyhellowhatsnew: NO! NOOOOOOOOO!! (smashes his Maschinenkarabiner into a glass case containing gold models of the panzer tanks) I will not sacrifice the 44th. We've made too many compromises already. Too many retreats. They invade our space and we fall back. They assimilate countries with communism and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn HE-AH! This far, no further! And I, will MAKE THEM PAY for what they've done!

Lily Sloane: You broke your little tanks.

[heyhellowhatsnew]

Turn 5 Germany:

Obviously i'm annoyed that the soviets were able to accomplish those two counteroffensives despite the terrible weather. The most important thing is to save the 44th.



But how?

I decide that breaking a line through their 248th is the best way to get the 44th out of trouble, or at least some support.

I start off with my fighters to attack the airfields of Balakleja.

I forget to screen the cap but there are no fighters to intercept me, I cause some casualties for the soviets.

Next we're going to arty the first 248th and then bomb them



Arty did good, now for the air pain



Nothing really. But now we are ready to attack.



For some reason, despite me moving two panzer divisions into the area, only one unit can attack. Great.



Luckily we win. Now onto the other 248th.

There are no arty units in the area, but we use our last bombers. Not a lot of damage.

I am going to go through my HQ units to play an offensive card. It is crucial we win this to free the 44th.

Again i'm annoyed that only the 44th can attack. I am very worried. Lets cross our fingers.



We lose. I'm too annoyed and forget the screen cap.

The other plan was to use the 113th to sweep around and save them. So.. lets try that







We win and now we must move units to occupy the hex



Unfortunately this is the furthest we can go. I can only pray the 44th survives just one more turn so we can save them.



I turn to the south to avenge my fallen brothers



We are going to destroy their 33rd.

The attack is successful and they retreat



Now its time for 335th unit to die



They do. And now the last 333rd unit over the town.



"For Frodo" (Frodo was a favorite soldier in the 44th)

We run out of AP. They still have the hex. Notice when i'm annoyed at losing I forget to take the screencap. Heh.

This is the South after some movement and an poorly thought out attack out of frustration at 333rd



Onto the north



I am going to attack the 169th.



The bombardment goes well.

Now onto the ground attack



SUCCCESS!

At this point i'm in gives no fucks mode. You can tell because i'm getting irritated and want to kill everything. I'm not thinking straight. Which is another reason why to just play one turn a day when you're just starting out.

I am going to attack the 244th





It's a draw. I'm playing sloppy and I know it. I could have played a card to have a better turn out. Grr. Everyone please learn from my stupid mistakes.



I get more aggressive. I want to attack the 2nd. I want revenge.

I make some more dumb attacks and this is what we end up with in the middle. I am done with the turn. I need to stop playing angry and frustrated.



This is the map at the end of my turn:




This is the map at the end of the Soviet turn:




The Soviets have countered my counter-offensive to their counter-offensive. Thats all for tonight. I need a breather. I'm too frustrated and angry at myself for being so dumb at this game.

As always, any tips, hints, strategies, angry messages, help is appreciated.

[heyhellowhatsnew]

I'm taking a day off to refocus and hopefully have people post some more tips or strategies and point out what i'm doing wrong. Plus its Thursday and i'm exhausted from work and brain can't think.

Next turn will be tomorrow regardless. I hope at least one person is enjoying my debacle. Please feel free to post in this AAR. I really encourage it.

[Bonners]

A couple of things I've noticed and have been there and bought the t-shirt.....never attack out of frustration. It is better to do nothing and build your strength up rather than just attack. Even if you do have good attacks are they necessarily in the right direction? With the Germans you have a very powerful cutting edge, but it is soon blunted.

Looking back over your screenshot, you over extended your 44th division too soon which left them vulnerable. Although the AI is not as good as a human opponent, in the shorter scenarios they can put up a good show and expose any weaknesses. You may struggle to get the 44th out now, it is difficult to tell without seeing the strength of your other units nearby.

Sometimes though you have to accept your hits and go on to the next stage. For future reference, with your initial attacks where you broke through with the 44th, sometimes it is better not to advance straight into the hex you have just won. Wait a turn, let the AI move more units back in and then you will be able to attack the reserves again on your turn and their entrenchment values will be lower. If you are going to advance into a hex then try to have either an entrenchment or defensive card available to play on your advancing units to guard against the counter attacks.

Couple of other things I've noticed, I see that you dont think your airforce are doing that good a job. The airforce's role is not necessarily to cause casualties, but to reduce entrenchment of the opposing units which makes your attack easier, or to disrupt them before they counter attack. With this game you need to get used to looking at all the values of the units, not just the raw numbers.

These are all lessons I have really learnt the hard way losing PBEM battles against more experienced opponents. I'll try and find a post of Isokron's which was one that very simply explained how to attack and hold an areas over a couple of turns.

[Bonners]

Found it, this is Isokron (who is an expert player) summing up very simply the best way to attack for the Germans, his advice is well worth reading:

In general I would say the key to succesful attacks are good artillery (and if possible air) prep attacks. I havent really gotten into a well entrenched river crossing with enemy reserves behind kind of situation in any of my games but I think what I would try to do would be something like.

1: Hit a hex with a full artillery stack and drive it back, if you have enough artillery to do several of these attacks then do it.
2: Do not advance into the taken hexes.
3: If the opponent moves back forces into the taken hex then good you now have a low entrenchment target with less than optimal readiness, hit it.
4: If not repeat on a neighbouring hex, you now have to consecutive hexes you can move into on his side of the river, if you dont feel that this will be enough repeat from step 2

This might take a few turns but you should be able to inflict 4:1 or so losses on him which he cant sustain in the long run. A soviet rifle division will only be able to take one or two defeats like this before starting to break unless it has a lot of turns to bring back its morale and get reinforcements in between the attacks.

Edit: Oh and dont attack into non open hexes, there is almost always a better alternative.

[heyhellowhatsnew]

Thanks Bonners. I appreciate it. You're right I have no idea how to use my air units. I've been screwing that up a lot. I'll put up a turn tonight.