Richard III

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Empire101

ORIGINAL: Punk Reaper

The series the Tudors was fiction..... Bad fiction, unfortunately most people seem to take their history from crap tv shows and Hollywood... Yeh I'm looking at you Mel Gibson!

+1. Braveheart being the most obvious pack of nonsense.
It should have been called BraveFart, as the film was just a load of hot air.

Back to Richard. Richard has been treated badly by history, and his vile murderer and usurper Henry Tudor had a very shaky claim to the the throne through his father, John of Gaunt.

Richard was a brave and noble King, who died as he had lived....valiantly.

Let us hope he is given a State Funeral and that history is re-adjusted back to fact and not the fairytale nonsense of Shakespeare's play, which I loathe.

Richards last reputed words on this earth were 'Traitors, Traitors, Traitors'!! before succumbing to the fatal blow. The desperation and betrayal of those words echo down the centuries.

Here was one of our warrior kings who almost got to the coward Henry Tudor personally, fighting his way through his escort, killing his standard bearer before being unhorsed, and eventually cut down.

Det In Requiescant In Pace

warspite1

I find all this fascinating - not least that there seems to me to be so many people who have a real hard-on for the idea that Richard III was so badly wronged.

I understand from the TV program that many members of the Richard III society were adamant (before the skeleton was found) that Richard III did not have a deformity of the spine and that that too was a Tudor myth.

As for me I have no idea, and certainly the fact that Richard's body has been found does not change anything at this stage, but I would love to know more about this now.

One thing I do know - he was our King and Head of State and he deserves a state funeral.

I thought you sir, of all people, would be 'up' on this tumultuous part of our history!!!!

The last 'English' King to sit on the throne of England!!![&:]

I'm speechless!!!!!![:D]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Empire101

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Empire101




+1. Braveheart being the most obvious pack of nonsense.
It should have been called BraveFart, as the film was just a load of hot air.

Back to Richard. Richard has been treated badly by history, and his vile murderer and usurper Henry Tudor had a very shaky claim to the the throne through his father, John of Gaunt.

Richard was a brave and noble King, who died as he had lived....valiantly.

Let us hope he is given a State Funeral and that history is re-adjusted back to fact and not the fairytale nonsense of Shakespeare's play, which I loathe.

Richards last reputed words on this earth were 'Traitors, Traitors, Traitors'!! before succumbing to the fatal blow. The desperation and betrayal of those words echo down the centuries.

Here was one of our warrior kings who almost got to the coward Henry Tudor personally, fighting his way through his escort, killing his standard bearer before being unhorsed, and eventually cut down.

Det In Requiescant In Pace

warspite1

I find all this fascinating - not least that there seems to me to be so many people who have a real hard-on for the idea that Richard III was so badly wronged.

I understand from the TV program that many members of the Richard III society were adamant (before the skeleton was found) that Richard III did not have a deformity of the spine and that that too was a Tudor myth.

As for me I have no idea, and certainly the fact that Richard's body has been found does not change anything at this stage, but I would love to know more about this now.

One thing I do know - he was our King and Head of State and he deserves a state funeral.

I thought you sir, of all people, would be 'up' on this tumultuous part of our history!!!!

The last 'English' King to sit on the throne of England!!![&:]

I'm speechless!!!!!![:D]

warspite1

No, I'm afraid that was old mother warspite's bag - there was nothing she couldn't tell you about the English Royal Family... Boy at times like this it makes me realise how much I miss her [:(]

I get my love of history from her, but I must confess I do like a few more battleships, tanks and s*** in my history lessons than what the Plantagenents / Tudors could provide [:)]

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Empire101
I shall re-examine my sources and get back to you asp with the facts and references, pronto

That's all I can ask. Thanks.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Empire101

ORIGINAL: warspite1


warspite1

I find all this fascinating - not least that there seems to me to be so many people who have a real hard-on for the idea that Richard III was so badly wronged.

I understand from the TV program that many members of the Richard III society were adamant (before the skeleton was found) that Richard III did not have a deformity of the spine and that that too was a Tudor myth.

As for me I have no idea, and certainly the fact that Richard's body has been found does not change anything at this stage, but I would love to know more about this now.

One thing I do know - he was our King and Head of State and he deserves a state funeral.

I thought you sir, of all people, would be 'up' on this tumultuous part of our history!!!!

The last 'English' King to sit on the throne of England!!![&:]

I'm speechless!!!!!![:D]

warspite1

No, I'm afraid that was old mother warspite's bag - there was nothing she couldn't tell you about the English Royal Family... Boy at times like this it makes me realise how much I miss her [:(]

I get my love of history from her, but I must confess I do like a few more battleships, tanks and s*** in my history lessons than what the Plantagenents / Tudors could provide [:)]

Surely Warspite, the thought of all those heavily armoured knights thundering towards the enemy in full armour, their pennants streaming in the wind, the thought of man against man in some horrendous swirling mass of hacking, slashing and gouging in a sea of mud and blood, as the valiant efforts of one knight succumb to another,... must excite the senses sir??

It must get your blood up.....just a little?

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: Empire101
I shall re-examine my sources and get back to you asp with the facts and references, pronto

That's all I can ask. Thanks.

It will be my pleasure sir![:)]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Empire101

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Empire101




I thought you sir, of all people, would be 'up' on this tumultuous part of our history!!!!

The last 'English' King to sit on the throne of England!!![&:]

I'm speechless!!!!!![:D]

warspite1

No, I'm afraid that was old mother warspite's bag - there was nothing she couldn't tell you about the English Royal Family... Boy at times like this it makes me realise how much I miss her [:(]

I get my love of history from her, but I must confess I do like a few more battleships, tanks and s*** in my history lessons than what the Plantagenents / Tudors could provide [:)]

Surely Warspite, the thought of all those heavily armoured knights thundering towards the enemy in full armour, their pennants streaming in the wind, the thought of man against man in some horrendous swirling mass of hacking, slashing and gouging in a sea of mud and blood, as the valiant efforts of one knight succumb to another,... must excite the senses sir??

It must get your blood up.....just a little?

warspite1

Well now you describe it like that I'm quite turned on [X(]

Maybe this Richard III stuff will help me get more interested, but at the moment, warfare - proper warfare - starts with the Napoleonic era and ends at Nagasaki (with special allowance for Korea and the Falklands).

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Well now you describe it like that I'm quite turned on [X(]

Maybe this Richard III stuff will help me get more interested, but at the moment, warfare - proper warfare - starts with the Napoleonic era and ends at Nagasaki (with special allowance for Korea and the Falklands).

What about Cannae, Harlech, Blenheim, Towton etc etc?

I'll be round later on my trusty steed in my chainmail.......

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Empire101

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Well now you describe it like that I'm quite turned on [X(]

Maybe this Richard III stuff will help me get more interested, but at the moment, warfare - proper warfare - starts with the Napoleonic era and ends at Nagasaki (with special allowance for Korea and the Falklands).

What about Cannae, Harlech, Blenheim, Towton etc etc?

I'll be round later on my trusty steed in my chainmail.......

warspite1

I got into Roman times a little thanks to Rome Total War, but struggled to follow that up (I tried reading Rubicon but it was all a bit too difficult) [&:]

I guess I like "Deranged johnny foreigner person tries to take over the world and the British save the day" type scenario e.g. Napoleonic War, WWII and latterly WWI.

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

I guess I like "Deranged johnny foreigner person tries to take over the world and the British save the day" type scenario e.g. Napoleonic War, WWII and latterly WWI.

Only a maniac or Johnny Foreigner would'nt subscribe to that view of history sir!!?

Reminds me of a certain mindset peculiar to the British;-

Captain Darling: So you see, Blackadder, Field Marshall Haig is most anxious to eliminate all these German spies.

General Melchett: Filthy hun weasels, fighting their dirty underhand war!

Captain Darling: And fortunately, one of our spies...

General Melchett: Splendid fellows, brave heroes risking life and limb for Blighty!

[sullafelix]

George more than deserved his tub of wine. He had been a traitor several times over before he was finally killed.

No one who was as bad off physically as Shakespeare makes him, could have fought in all the battles Richard did and wield a shield and a battleaxe.

I am a Richardist, but even I have a problem with the princes in the tower. The total lack of any writing about them nor really a peep at the time of their demise is staggering. Of course the Tudor's used it as fodder but I have never seen any other mention of it at the time. Before Richard's death there is a huge gap of silence about them.

The percentage of chidren their age that just died from natural causes at the time is staggering. Why wasn't it just let out that they died from the "pox" etc., instead of silence. This more than anything makes me believe that they were done away with.

Even older histories written circa 1900-1960 ( possible even earlier ) sometimes were on the side of Richard being maltreated by the winners history.

So I don't think you could say the idea is " revisionist ".

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Empire101

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Well now you describe it like that I'm quite turned on [X(]

Maybe this Richard III stuff will help me get more interested, but at the moment, warfare - proper warfare - starts with the Napoleonic era and ends at Nagasaki (with special allowance for Korea and the Falklands).

What about Cannae, Harlech, Blenheim, Towton etc etc?

I'll be round later on my trusty steed in my chainmail.......

warspite1

I got into Roman times a little thanks to Rome Total War, but struggled to follow that up (I tried reading Rubicon but it was all a bit too difficult) [&:]

I guess I like "Deranged johnny foreigner person tries to take over the world and the Americans save the day" type scenario e.g. WWII and latterly WWI.

Fixed that for you, mate. [8D]

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Empire101




What about Cannae, Harlech, Blenheim, Towton etc etc?

I'll be round later on my trusty steed in my chainmail.......

warspite1

I got into Roman times a little thanks to Rome Total War, but struggled to follow that up (I tried reading Rubicon but it was all a bit too difficult) [&:]

I guess I like "Deranged johnny foreigner person tries to take over the world and the Americans save the day" type scenario e.g. WWII and latterly WWI.

Fixed that for you, mate. [8D]

warspite1

Hee Hee - wondered who would react to that [:)]

[wodin]

Warspite...tut...tut....I too bypassed Korea..Until I read a book..then I realised my mistake..

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: sulla05

George more than deserved his tub of wine. He had been a traitor several times over before he was finally killed.

No one who was as bad off physically as Shakespeare makes him, could have fought in all the battles Richard did and wield a shield and a battleaxe.

I am a Richardist, but even I have a problem with the princes in the tower. The total lack of any writing about them nor really a peep at the time of their demise is staggering. Of course the Tudor's used it as fodder but I have never seen any other mention of it at the time. Before Richard's death there is a huge gap of silence about them.

The percentage of chidren their age that just died from natural causes at the time is staggering. Why wasn't it just let out that they died from the "pox" etc., instead of silence. This more than anything makes me believe that they were done away with.

Even older histories written circa 1900-1960 ( possible even earlier ) sometimes were on the side of Richard being maltreated by the winners history.

So I don't think you could say the idea is " revisionist ".

Good points there Sulla.

George had repaid his brothers love only with plotting and treachery, so Edward IV had to act in the end.
George got his just desserts.

I too have a problem with the Princes, and years ago I was firmly of the opinion that Richard just did away with them to cement his claim to the throne.

But now, although I still think the Prince's came to a horrible end, I am of the opinion that one of Richards supporters did them in, and then Richard was presented with a fait accompli so to speak.

My favourite suspect is Cecily Neville, Richards mother.
An extremely clever and powerful woman in her own right, she so hated the idea of power falling into the hands of the Woodvilles that I feel she would have contemplated murder to put another of her sons on the throne.

Her campaign to declare the Prince's in the tower illegitimate by the fact that Edward IV, her own son was illegitimate speaks volumes.

[wodin]

from a young age I was fascinated with Knights and castles so it's surprising I never wargame the period and have never really studied the period (really all I've done is watch documentaries like The History of Britain etc etc). I think it's something I must do at some point.

[decaro]

Will this re-ignite the War of the Roses?

British Cities Battle for Richard III's Remains
Leicester, York stake rival claims

(Newser) – Centuries after the Wars of the Roses, Richard III is still dividing Britain. Two cities are feuding over who gets to rebury newly-discovered remains said to be his. Leicester, home to the parking lot where the bones were found, says it's the rightful owner; York, meanwhile, argues that the king represented the House of York, grew up in the city, and said he wanted to be buried there ...

http://www.newser.com/story/162463/brit ... gn=rss_3_2

[wodin]

It's WAR!!!...well in a solicitors office I expect..

ORIGINAL: Joe D.

Will this re-ignite the War of the Roses?

British Cities Battle for Richard III's Remains
Leicester, York stake rival claims

(Newser) – Centuries after the Wars of the Roses, Richard III is still dividing Britain. Two cities are feuding over who gets to rebury newly-discovered remains said to be his. Leicester, home to the parking lot where the bones were found, says it's the rightful owner; York, meanwhile, argues that the king represented the House of York, grew up in the city, and said he wanted to be buried there ...

http://www.newser.com/story/162463/brit ... gn=rss_3_2

[catwhoorg]

York has enough history sites, so much so its more than a day to visit even the major ones.

Leicester needs the help, let him stay there.

[:D]


(as for gaming in the period, Kingmaker was a great draw at my old wargames club. Quick enough for an evening, and very social)

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: wodin

from a young age I was fascinated with Knights and castles so it's surprising I never wargame the period and have never really studied the period (really all I've done is watch documentaries like The History of Britain etc etc). I think it's something I must do at some point.

It is a fascinating period of history Wodin.
There was an SPI game that I played many many years ago called 'Empire's of the Middle Ages', way ahead of its time.
Unfortunately it needed 5-7 players sitting round a table which I only managed to do a couple of times.

But it was TREMENDOUS fun!!![:D]

[Empire101]

ORIGINAL: catwhoorg

York has enough history sites, so much so its more than a day to visit even the major ones.

Leicester needs the help, let him stay there.

[:D]


(as for gaming in the period, Kingmaker was a great draw at my old wargames club. Quick enough for an evening, and very social)

He should go to Westminster Abbey!!!![;)]

Ah, Kingmaker.....(nostalgic sigh).....wonderful!![:)]