Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A)

[PaxMondo]

By this time (mid 43) I will have functionally converted all of the Nettie groups into Patrol/Recon missions.  Rarely use them as them as bombers ... Intel is more valuable than a few bombs.  Besides, even Helens are hard to escort to their range, forget Netties.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
The news of the day is that 80 4Es arrived unescorted over Boela. This time, instead of the usual mily run, they found 61 Georges and 8 Tojos waiting for them! The 4Es arrived at 10,000, while the Georges were at 17,000 feet... 4 Georges were shot down (2 KIA), but report says that nearly 40 liberators and fortresses were shot down! That's a great result!!!

That's fantastic! Nice shootin', Tex! [&o]

[crsutton]

No more than six PTs in a single TF and no more than one active PT TF operating out of a single base. This has worked fine for Ark and I for over 1,000 turns. I am the Allied player and it has work very well.

I have a problem with the bait TFs. Done to excess it can border on the gamey. Ark will do it at times but it is not too much of a problem as he does it in moderation. In fact I suspect that when kamikazes become more of a factor in our game, that I will be using small ships and CAP traps for them. So I did not say anything.

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
The news of the day is that 80 4Es arrived unescorted over Boela. This time, instead of the usual mily run, they found 61 Georges and 8 Tojos waiting for them! The 4Es arrived at 10,000, while the Georges were at 17,000 feet... 4 Georges were shot down (2 KIA), but report says that nearly 40 liberators and fortresses were shot down! That's a great result!!!

That's fantastic! Nice shootin', Tex! [&o]

Congrats. 40 4E is probably not big logistical problem for allies right now but for sure You buy few day to rest yoyr units also next time they will think twice before send unescorted bombers. It should especially help defending areas behind allied fighters range

George looks like best 4E killer in game. With decent pilots, there is no bomber that can defend against it, especially when bombers arrive unescorted. Probably until B-29 arrival N1 and N2 will be enough but after 4/44 IJN need N1K5(or better J7W1 Shinden) to be able to catch up B-29 I cant wait when i my game George enter service.

Can You tell how is looking Your experience when George need to defend against enemy sweep. It should be better from A6M5, but how much? Do he will stand alone or he need Tojo support. How You manage to deal with SR3? Can You tell how many George is able to fly next day after that battle. I hope most of them is still in service?

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

By this time (mid 43) I will have functionally converted all of the Nettie groups into Patrol/Recon missions.  Rarely use them as them as bombers ... Intel is more valuable than a few bombs.  Besides, even Helens are hard to escort to their range, forget Netties.

+1
Definitely. Intel is more important. I prefer to have knowledge that enemy invasion is coming 2 or 3 days before they hit beach and use that time to re base short range bombers to area.
Using 2E navy bombers on max range in naval attack will mean only that You losing precious pilots as You can escort them. Enemy will come to You so range is not issue.

Times when Japanese long range navy bombers rule sky over Pacific end when allies start to get all those numerous air group and CVE, and are able to CAP every TF or base close to Your position. And we know how easy is to shutdown Japanese bombers, few gen 1 fighters in air and they are slaughtered.

[veji1]

ORIGINAL: crsutton

No more than six PTs in a single TF and no more than one active PT TF operating out of a single base. This has worked fine for Ark and I for over 1,000 turns. I am the Allied player and it has work very well.

I have a problem with the bait TFs. Done to excess it can border on the gamey. Ark will do it at times but it is not too much of a problem as he does it in moderation. In fact I suspect that when kamikazes become more of a factor in our game, that I will be using small ships and CAP traps for them. So I did not say anything.

True... CAP traps are a part of the game, but they sometimes become pure engine exploitation. At least both sides can do it so I suppose it balances out a bit.

Regarding your PT HR, it sounds good to me. Better than letting 100S of PTs sail away and just have to crawl like snails to their base to refuel... Because then the number issue doesn't get sorted out.

EDIT : Your rule also is an incentive for allies to conquer lots of small bases and established mutually supportive position. Conquer a dot base, build a port 1 with Seabees and boum you get an extra PT TF to play with in the area. Sounds very intuitive to me.

[GreyJoy]

May 28, 29 1943
 
I forgot one Nells Group on naval attack and i paid the consequences of my mistake: 18 Nells took off, escorted by 36 Oscars... 30 Oscars and 12 Nells never came back to their base.
What happened? Brad sent several bait TFs to Saumlaki, covered by several CVEs on LRCAP, along with 50 P-38s on the same role...
 
The following day i sent some subs...we sunk an LST...guess what? Empty...
 
More naval bombardments at Dobo (near Taberfane)...
 
 
Heavy air bombings over terapo, with lots of transports assembling at Horn Island... an invasion?
 
Air recon over Terapo, Woodlark Island and Shortland... i bet the allies are ready to move with their CVs....
 
Units are flowing to Western Sumatra, while more support units are reaching Saipan and Ponape.
 
 
About the bait TFs CrSutton... i agree. Brad till now hasn't done them to this extent...let's see how it goes. i would hate to ask for another HR...
 
Vieji... well, let's not ask too much. I'd like to keep this game as it has been so far... meaning a game where each player, before deciding what to do, asks himself if it's kosher towards the other guy.  His PTs are now moving up and down...so they're not anymore simply stationing at my bases...which is already something
 
 
Tulagi still holds...another deliberate attack was repulsed (1-2), despite heavy air and naval bombings.... this is the spirit of Bushido!!!! BANZAI!!!![8D]

[artuitus_slith]

Pt boats carried smoke generators, and had established protocol for dealing with attack from A/C. So really, getting 2 per attack is fairly realistic. Japanese A/C surprise the PT boats in the open-get a couple of them, then can't attack anymore due to the smoke screen being laid.

[GreyJoy]

Koniu, well against sweeps of P-47s or P-38s, the best way to use the N1K1 is imho to keep them below 20,000 feet, packed with Tojos flying a bit higher.
They do ok, but the problem is that the day after more than half of the group is grounded...and when grounded those beasts remain grounded for not less than a week (if you're lucky)...so you always need to have Tojos or Zeros to fill the gap
 
 
May 31, 1943
 
Same as yesterday...Brad keeps on moving his bait TFs around, clearly trying to understand what are my search arcs and my set ranges for naval attack duties.
 
Lots of shippings are moving from Thousands Ships Bay to Rekata Island (east of Munda)...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

By this time (mid 43) I will have functionally converted all of the Nettie groups into Patrol/Recon missions.  Rarely use them as them as bombers ... Intel is more valuable than a few bombs.  Besides, even Helens are hard to escort to their range, forget Netties.

I perfectly agree. And i start converting my Nells from torpedo bombers to patrol planes when i read your comments on another thread. It's a slow process cause i don't have enough good naval search pilots...but i plan to add more 60 Nells to patrol duties in the next months

[GreyJoy]

June 2, 1943

The war grinds on. The allies have landed unmolested at Abenama and Rekata Bay, while the air offensive against Terapo continues.
In the DEI the bait TFs have gone back to Darwin, while cruisers and 4Es keep on shutting down my bases.
In Burma we ambushed his milky runs once again, shooting down some 80 dive bombers near Katha![&o]

We're reinforcing Bouganville and getting ready to fight for PGN, while more troops are flowing to the Mariannas and the Carolines.

Thailand is recieving the 6th THAI division, recently moved back from Akyab and we're creating a strategic air defence at Singapore.

The Kuriles are getting more supplies but i think they are safe untill 1944.

Convoys of fuel and oil are moving smoothly to HI and back with supplies and troops.

We're getting ready to fall back to our inner defensive perimeterr in CENTPAC, with the Mariannas finally secured.

Enemy recons over Tarawa, ocean island, Rossell island, woodlark island and everywhere in western sumatra...

My main goal now is to avoid any "tunnell strategic vision"

[obvert]

When you say the Marianas are secured, what does that mean? Is everything in place that you'd like to have there, or just a starting defense on each island building up gradually?

[Canoerebel]

GreyJoy, I have this vague memory of reading your AAR back in '42....at which time you felt like the wheels were coming off.  You were encountering new and unfamiliar obstacles hither and yon and felt pretty stretched in your ability to take on the complexities of Japan in AE....
 
How do you feel now?
 
[:)]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: obvert

When you say the Marianas are secured, what does that mean? Is everything in place that you'd like to have there, or just a starting defense on each island building up gradually?

Well, secured against a "coup de main"... Saipan has 1 Army HQ, 1 Air HQ (Army, range 5), 3 base forces with radars, 2 AA units, 1 heavy Arty Rgt, 1 Tank division. (Port 3, AF 5, Forts 4)
Pagan has 1 regiment and 2 base force (forts 3)
Tinian has 2 base forces, a SNLF unit (Port 1, AF 3, forts 3)
Guam has 1 CD unit, 3 base forces, 1 tank regiment, 2 AA units, 1 Arty Bn and 1 Inf Regiment.

With the KB very close and with Wake and Marcus acting as spotters (both with Emilies covering the whole central pacific), i think the allies cannot dare to get there in 1943.

Also consider that with stacking limits Saipan is already full (32,000 out of 35,000) and Guam almost... so i really don't think they can surprise me here.
In a couple of turns of early allert i could rebase there easily 3/400 planes...

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

GreyJoy, I have this vague memory of reading your AAR back in '42....at which time you felt like the wheels were coming off.  You were encountering new and unfamiliar obstacles hither and yon and felt pretty stretched in your ability to take on the complexities of Japan in AE....

How do you feel now?

[:)]

Well Dan, i remember well that feeling and when it started. t was when i realized that Brad was slowing me down to the point where any so-called "phase II" had become realistically impossible.
I remember when i took Darwin...suffering incrediible losses in terms of ships... then i remember when i found a fortified Cocos Island in front of me and i hadn't the strenght or the supplies to risk another landing adventure... with the amphib bonus expiring...with the allies that didn't show any sign of weakness... with Brad that managed to evade every attack of mine... when i felt always predictable and every move of mine was well parried.

It was hard...especially because i realized all my dreams of glory (India, Australia etc...) were melting like snow in the sun...

But then i think i took the right decision. Decided not to expose to further risks and to start creating a defensive perimeter.
Now that the allies have grown strong i clearly feel the weakness of my means...but i also feel much more confident about my overall strategy. I know i'm gonna lose. That's for sure. But i also know that, having stopped early enough so to avoid any disaster, now my positions are solid and balanced. Which doesn't mean they won't crumble... they will... but Brad will have to sweat for every inch of ground and my goal now is to prevent an istant crumbling of my perimeter... as long as my defensive power will remain credible, i'll remain a steady and tough opponent.

So i feel better now. Also because i proved myself to be able to play Japan until mid 1943 without suffering a major defeat or an economic crush[:D]

[veji1]

Now one of the hardest part of mid war japanese player is to manage to funnel the allied player onto the slowest path of advance. In a sense what he is doing in the Solomons is good for you, it would be nice if he were to invest lots of forces there, but is probably just waiting till he is ready....

And this is coming soon, he should have enough CVs with Hellcats to take on the KB in July/August, from then on he can try a biggish jump. This begs the question are your flanks secured ? Thailand/Sumatra is a must of course and you know it, also he could try to isolate the Marshalls by going higher up. Of course the DEI is still the biggest danger, how are the southern bases of South Sumatra / JAva / BAli going ?

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: veji1

Now one of the hardest part of mid war japanese player is to manage to funnel the allied player onto the slowest path of advance. In a sense what he is doing in the Solomons is good for you, it would be nice if he were to invest lots of forces there, but is probably just waiting till he is ready....

And this is coming soon, he should have enough CVs with Hellcats to take on the KB in July/August, from then on he can try a biggish jump. This begs the question are your flanks secured ? Thailand/Sumatra is a must of course and you know it, also he could try to isolate the Marshalls by going higher up. Of course the DEI is still the biggest danger, how are the southern bases of South Sumatra / JAva / BAli going ?

The Marshalls? Well, they are not vital. Once Kusiae and Ponape are secured (and they are), Brad can take the whole Marshalls islands if he likes to. They are reasonable garrisoned and he will have to invest a HUGE amount of resources and time to grab them. By the time he has so, i will be repositioned on my inner pacific defensive perimeter.

Thailand is getting secured. Sumatra it is as far as i can (it's huge, as u know)... Southern Java and Bali etc are garrisoned, even if lightly. However i have a considerable force in Java, with lots of shippings at Sosarbaja and Batavia, ready to load units and drop them where needed... so the goal is to prevent him to conquer immediately a base... with a decent garrison and enough forts (as we're seeing at Tulagi where a garrison unit is still holding against a US Divison and an OZ Tank Rgt), it's almost impossible for him to conquer a foothold in my perimeter easily...which gives me time to bring in reinforcements and counterattack.

The other key is the early warning system. I have several patrol units from the Adamans to Sebang, From Padang to Benkoleng, From Batavia to Christmas IO, from Sosarbaja to Timor... plus several Glenn Equipped subs watching the approach routes in the I.O.... he shouldn't arrive unseen.

[Canoerebel]

Question, then, about stacking limits.
 
Does it somehow work a major disadvantage to the Allies?  IE, if Japan can load up an island up to the max (say, 30k), there's no way for the Allies to mount a 2:1 amphibious assault.  The Allies only option is to isolate, bomb and bombard until the garrison is toast.  That can be done, of course, though it can be complicated or even suicidal when the KB and LBA are available.  If Japan can max out just a few bases, no big deal.  But if Japan has the wherewithal to max out many of the key ones, doesn't that really mess up the Allies?  In that case, wouldn't it be optimal for Japan to always focus first on neutering China so that more units can be bought to stuff the major island bases?
 
Just wondering.  I'm way to early in my game, and way to unfamiliar with stacking limits, to speak with any kind of authority. So this isn't an accusation or a complaint, but rather just a question of genuine interest.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Question, then, about stacking limits.

Does it somehow work a major disadvantage to the Allies?  IE, if Japan can load up an island up to the max (say, 30k), there's no way for the Allies to mount a 2:1 amphibious assault.  The Allies only option is to isolate, bomb and bombard until the garrison is toast.  That can be done, of course, though it can be complicated or even suicidal when the KB and LBA are available.  If Japan can max out just a few bases, no big deal.  But if Japan has the wherewithal to max out many of the key ones, doesn't that really mess up the Allies?  In that case, wouldn't it be optimal for Japan to always focus first on neutering China so that more units can be bought to stuff the major island bases?

Just wondering.  I'm way to early in my game, and way to unfamiliar with stacking limits, to speak with any kind of authority. So this isn't an accusation or a complaint, but rather just a question of genuine interest.

My most recent opponent tried to use this to a great advantage by reinforcing atolls over the stacking limit as he detected my intentions -- i.e bombing and shore bombardment .. however, one thing I noticed the more mouths to feed the faster supply is used and the need to send convoys in to support efforts. Even without overstacking 30K mouths drains a heck of lot of supply that requires constant resupply ... Thus the more IJA out on atolls is more convoys diverted to suppling the Army rather than the homelands ... just a thought for the conversation ...

[veji1]

Just as in real life, destroying the japanese navy allows the allies to speed up reduction of garrisons by bombing before landing. You do an Iwo after the turkey shoot...Sounds logical to me.

It probably puts a big emphasis on chase and destroy the KB though, as opposed to " I have enough to cover an invasion against the KB, therefore I shall proceed forward".