What?! Seriously?! You are back for more??? Now allowed for Oloren!

[terje439]

Going to sum it all up in one reply instead of answering all comments [:)]

Some say that "it is all over";
well, Brad will not win this game, that is granted. However in my previous games, although not able to win the game per ce, I instead created for myself new goals. They could be to hold out untill -44, push the Germans back to the starting borders etc. That gave me an objective and a reason to keep on playing. I do not need to win every game I play (heck if I needed to do that, I would never play pbem [:D]).

Some say "good on you, keep going";
Thank you, although I do see the other sides reason to say what they do. That being said, for once I want to see the winning screen, so have no fear, many more virtual troops will die [:D]

To all that offers advice, greetings, kind words;
Thank you all.

To all that reads this AAR;
Again, thank you. I would probably still make it without you (as my short time memory seems to think I am constantly drunk or something [:D]), but all your comments, hints, tips and support makes the writing of this a joy and not something I do for myself. Thank you all! [&o]


Terje

[AFV]

Terje- just curious- you need 28 more VP to win. Have you established any specific goals to achieve that? I see the broad strokes of your plan above- but what cities are on your radar? Or, are you simply going to keep on keeping on as you have been, making pockets at every opportunity?

On a different note- after the blizzard, Brad seemed in good shape. After the blizzard, your play did improve (in fact, during the blizzard, I thought your retreat was excellent) - I do not want to take that away from you- but what the hell happened to Brad? When this gets wrapped up- I would really like to hear from him- to find out in his opinion what was his demise. Its not like he is a noob- he has established himself as a good player- and whatever mistake/trap he fell in any one of us could have. Was it manpower (he lost a lot in the south but held Moscow and Leningrad so seems like he should have been ok on that), AP points, or even just sloppy play?

[Flaviusx]

The Soviet player went into 42 in very good shape. But he played a passive defense and failed to vigorously shift reserves to meet the German offensive and allowed himself to be nibbled to death. It just snowballed from there. No reserves, no defense in depth, just a long, thin and static line that was constantly getting flanked. Too much strength up front, even in quiet sectors; these easily could have been stripped, particularly up north, to form reserves. Death by a thousand cuts. German penetrations just pierced this thin crust and did as they pleased. This went on for two full years game time. At no point did the Soviet player change things up or learn from his defeats.

Eventually the Red Army fell below a critical mass and even purely linear defense became impossible.

For a recent and superb example of how this ought to be done, look at Kamil's game versus Sapper: that's an active defense, one creating its own opportunities to counterattack, and in order to inflict real losses on the other side you have to attack. Mere passive defense isn't enough.

[hfarrish]

ORIGINAL: AFV

Terje- just curious- you need 28 more VP to win. Have you established any specific goals to achieve that? I see the broad strokes of your plan above- but what cities are on your radar? Or, are you simply going to keep on keeping on as you have been, making pockets at every opportunity?

On a different note- after the blizzard, Brad seemed in good shape. After the blizzard, your play did improve (in fact, during the blizzard, I thought your retreat was excellent) - I do not want to take that away from you- but what the hell happened to Brad? When this gets wrapped up- I would really like to hear from him- to find out in his opinion what was his demise. Its not like he is a noob- he has established himself as a good player- and whatever mistake/trap he fell in any one of us could have. Was it manpower (he lost a lot in the south but held Moscow and Leningrad so seems like he should have been ok on that), AP points, or even just sloppy play?

That's a good question that I'd like to see answered as well - to me, it seems like he probably overestimated his relative strength and thought he could hold in the South in some capacity in '42...which is often the death of many a Red Army. If he simply kept pulling back there and building strength on the Don or Volga heading north, he should have bought enough time. By leaving himself exposed to the west, he opened the door for Terje (and Terje caused the death via AP crunch, no question. As you note, he was probably fine on manpower up to a point given the Moscow/Leningrad hold).

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: AFV

1. Terje- just curious- you need 28 more VP to win. Have you established any specific goals to achieve that? I see the broad strokes of your plan above- but what cities are on your radar? Or, are you simply going to keep on keeping on as you have been, making pockets at every opportunity?

2. On a different note- after the blizzard, Brad seemed in good shape. After the blizzard, your play did improve (in fact, during the blizzard, I thought your retreat was excellent) - I do not want to take that away from you- but what the hell happened to Brad? When this gets wrapped up- I would really like to hear from him- to find out in his opinion what was his demise. Its not like he is a noob- he has established himself as a good player- and whatever mistake/trap he fell in any one of us could have. Was it manpower (he lost a lot in the south but held Moscow and Leningrad so seems like he should have been ok on that), AP points, or even just sloppy play?

1. The cities between the red and northern green arrowhead + Stalingrad should do the trick.

2. Imo he did a few mistakes (this is how it looked from my side only though);
-he pushed too far in an attempt to damage me in the Blizzard, allowing me to catch him out of forts and in relatively open terrain after the blizzard.
-he did not fall back quickly enough, and the huge pocket was one he never really recovered from. Espesially since he spent precious AP on corps formation. I THINK he would have been better of at that time by creating divisions to slow me down.
-after the pocket, it become a matter of AP.

I do not think this would have happened in the previous game, as I feel I somehow "got my act together" in this game. Espesially my use of panzer divisions improved dramatically imo.


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The Soviet player went into 42 in very good shape. But he played a passive defense and failed to vigorously shift reserves to meet the German offensive and allowed himself to be nibbled to death. It just snowballed from there. No reserves, no defense in depth, just a long, thin and static line that was constantly getting flanked. Too much strength up front, even in quiet sectors; these easily could have been stripped, particularly up north, to form reserves. Death by a thousand cuts. German penetrations just pierced this thin crust and did as they pleased. This went on for two full years game time. At no point did the Soviet player change things up or learn from his defeats.

Eventually the Red Army fell below a critical mass and even purely linear defense became impossible.

For a recent and superb example of how this ought to be done, look at Kamil's game versus Sapper: that's an active defense, one creating its own opportunities to counterattack, and in order to inflict real losses on the other side you have to attack. Mere passive defense isn't enough.

I think that is an excellent summary. Although I believe the huge pocket was what really sealed it for him. Up to that he could have recovered, but from there on he could not afford the corps creation as that reduced his number of units.
Atleast that is how I see it.


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish
That's a good question that I'd like to see answered as well - to me, it seems like he probably overestimated his relative strength and thought he could hold in the South in some capacity in '42...which is often the death of many a Red Army. If he simply kept pulling back there and building strength on the Don or Volga heading north, he should have bought enough time. By leaving himself exposed to the west, he opened the door for Terje (and Terje caused the death via AP crunch, no question. As you note, he was probably fine on manpower up to a point given the Moscow/Leningrad hold).

It was not really in the south that he lost, I think it was more in the centre. Then the AP losses kicked in.


Terje

[hfarrish]

I guess my impression was that after the mega-pocket in the center he might have recovered, but then his back was broken in the south, particularly around Stalino, where pocket after pocket continued to be formed, keeping him from ever restoring any strength.

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: terje439

I do not think this would have happened in the previous game, as I feel I somehow "got my act together" in this game. Espesially my use of panzer divisions improved dramatically imo.


Terje

I could be wrong but this is exactly how i view it. It seems to me that Brad got complacent. I prolly would have been too. He really didnt expect based on previous games and on the 41 campaign for this to go different than ur other games so he never guarded him self from ur offensive capabilites that i will agree seem very much improved from earlier/earlier games. I said it before ill say it again. Where is the real Terje and what have u done to him [;)] He never really gotten out of the mental state/experienced some thing similar so it he hasnt been able to metally reverse course.

Any how kudos on "gotten ur act together". U seem to have learned from previous experiences its far from all that has that ability.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: hfarrish


I guess my impression was that after the mega-pocket in the center he might have recovered, but then his back was broken in the south, particularly around Stalino, where pocket after pocket continued to be formed, keeping him from ever restoring any strength.

But that only happened because he started to create corps formations after the huge pocket in the centre. Had he used divisions it would have been far harder for me to create those pockets.


Terje

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Walloc

ORIGINAL: terje439

I do not think this would have happened in the previous game, as I feel I somehow "got my act together" in this game. Espesially my use of panzer divisions improved dramatically imo.


Terje

I could be wrong but this is exactly how i view it. It seems to me that Brad got complacent. I prolly would have been too. He really didnt expect based on previous games and on the 41 campaign for this to go different than ur other games so he never guarded him self from ur offensive capabilites that i will agree seem very much improved from earlier/earlier games. I said it before ill say it again. Where is the real Terje and what have u done to him [;)] He never really gotten out of the mental state/experienced some thing similar so it he hasnt been able to metally reverse course.

Any how kudos on "gotten ur act together". U seem to have learned from previous experiences its far from all that has that ability.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

Hehe thank you. Yeah, not sure what happened, but I got things working [:)]

Terje

[terje439]

Turn 131 aka Say What?!

Overall
The final Moscow hex fell, and wow...That hex was worth 7 VP more than I expected. That was a nice surprise, and better still, it means I need fewer cities to win. Which again means that the plans for Operation Game, Set, Match have been slighlty altered. I do not need to push as far east as expected.
Apart from the static northern front, we make attacks wherever we can, and the successrate is rather good. This means that we are pushing closer and closer to more USSR controlled cities, and VPs.
The 52 attacks made gave a result of 4 helds, 42 retreats, 5 routs and 1 surrender this turn.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
3.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
3.

Losses
USSR : 142.000 troops, 2.599 guns, 47 AFVs, 320 AC.
Axis : 44.000 troops, 466 guns, 96 AFVs, 38 AC.

USSR units lost
2 Rifle Corps, 1 Rifle Division, 4 PVO AA regiments.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
7, leaving 4 on the map.

German pools
Manpower : 285.379
Vehicles : 183.627
Armaments : 698.768
Hiwi : 224.469
At this rate I am out of vehicles in 19 turns!

Victory Points
242.

[terje439]

Turn 132

Overall
Speed is so low now. We only take some 30 hexes per turn, which means we will not manage those last 18 VPs before mud hits again. The picture below shows why.
56 attacks, but too many helds. 10 helds, 36 retreats, 7 routs and 3 surrenders. Just not good enough, but my infantry is really weak now, and I simply cannot use them to attack entrenched USSR divisions. They are just not up to the task unfortunately.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
3.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
1.

Losses
USSR : 101.000 troops, 1.749 guns, 49 AFVs, 310 AC.
Axis : 44.000 troops, 406 guns, 141 AFVs, 20 AC.

USSR units lost
3 Rifle Divisions.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
14.

German pools
Manpower : 294.399
Vehicles : 173.837
Armaments : 712.129
Hiwi : 228.524
Another 10k vehicles gone...

Victory Points
242.

[Tophat1815]

Watch out for over extension my friend. Those panzers go out of supply now that they are split up and nobody is coming to their rescue. i also don't see you getting the needed victory points before mud sets in. The German morale drop from 43' to 44' is also significant,at least it was several months ago when I was playing.

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

Watch out for over extension my friend. Those panzers go out of supply now that they are split up and nobody is coming to their rescue. i also don't see you getting the needed victory points before mud sets in. The German morale drop from 43' to 44' is also significant,at least it was several months ago when I was playing.

Hmm, we shall see. I am not too concerned about overextension atm, actually I want a longer front as atm that actually benefits me more than the USSR [X(]


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 133

Overall
Not much speed north of Moscow, but we keep advancing and that is the main goal right now. Our PzA RED stands at the gates of Yaroslavl, our infantry actually takes Kalinin, and PzA GREEN takes Saratov. Only teo units pocketed thought, so these past few turns the USSR number of units hsould have increased slightly.
38 attacks results in 4 helds, 31 retreats, 2 routs and 1 surrender this turn.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
1.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
2.

Losses
USSR : 84.000 troops, 1.499 guns, 34 AFVs, 313 AC.
Axis : 40.000 troops, 324 guns, 113 AFVs, 50 AC.

USSR units lost
1 Rifle Division, 1 PVO AA regiment, 1 Sapper regiment.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
6, leaving 4 on the map.

German pools
Manpower : 305.312
Vehicles : 163.317
Armaments : 728.222
Hiwi : 220.007

Victory Points
246.

[rbrockman2]

From looking at the rail net, it would seem that the surviving Russians really need to stop PzA RED from pushing north to Vologda, since that would cut the last rail link to Leningrad and the northern third of the front. Could the Russian supply trucks actually get from there to the front lines near Leningrad in the mud if that happened?

It would seem logical for Russian units to flee PzA GREEN as fast as possible rather than hang out nearby and get surrounded and crushed in the open. With Saratov taken, there doesn't seem to be much within 10 hexes for the Russians to bother dying over.

Is it practical for the Pz armies to just spend the winter flanking and rolling up the Russian lines, with each PzA surrounding 3-5 units per turn?

[terje439]

ORIGINAL: rbrockman2

From looking at the rail net, it would seem that the surviving Russians really need to stop PzA RED from pushing north to Vologda, since that would cut the last rail link to Leningrad and the northern third of the front. Could the Russian supply trucks actually get from there to the front lines near Leningrad in the mud if that happened?

It would seem logical for Russian units to flee PzA GREEN as fast as possible rather than hang out nearby and get surrounded and crushed in the open. With Saratov taken, there doesn't seem to be much within 10 hexes for the Russians to bother dying over.

Is it practical for the Pz armies to just spend the winter flanking and rolling up the Russian lines, with each PzA surrounding 3-5 units per turn?

If the USSR moves units NORTH, I am a VERY happy camper [:)]
LG is a no go area for me, too much wooded territory and too few VP areas to be worth it. I need to go east to win this one, and it that regard, slowing me down against PzA Green is probably a good choice for Brad right now.
I would love for my PzAs to take 3-5 units per turn, but it is just not achiveable anymore. Both sides are more or less spent it seems, and there is not much I can do right now but keep pushing.
The reason for that, is that if I do not, BRad will dig right in and stop me dead on my tracks a few VPs short I fear. So, I will order my panzer commanders to fight a grinding war, and keep going untill the (bitter) end comes one way or another.


Terje

[terje439]

Turn 134 aka turn of Hmmmmm

Overall
From being optimistic about an autovictory, I am now more reserved. The speed is just so non existing at the moment (see picture below). I fear those 260VPs might be our "cupolas of the Kremlin" after all...And I really do not like the vehicle situation, and now German production dropped another 10% as we changed year.
And ofc those pesky partisans cut the railroads to Moscow...Again...
49 attacks this turn for a result of 6 helds, 34 retreats, 6 routs, 1 shatter and 2 surrenders.

USSR units in pockets at start of turn
2.

USSR units in pockets at end of turn
3.

Losses
USSR : 103.000 troops, 1.759 guns, 56 AFVs, 463 AC.
Axis : 39.000 troops, 276 guns, 146 AFVs, 45 AC.

USSR units lost
3 Rifle Divisions.

German units disbanded
None.

Partisans hunted down
13, leaving 2 on the map.

German pools
Manpower : 316.165
Vehicles : 158.316
Armaments : 768.302
Hiwi : 214.271
Ok, so vehicle losses dropped 50%, but we still only have some 30 turns left...

Victory Points
247.

[Walloc]

Hi Terje,

2 things.

1st. Stalingrad is only 7 8 ish hex from the look away from it and once u get there the river provides a defensible position so it might be easier than some of the other cities to get.

2ndly. Since u disbanded those RR units and u seem to have trouble getting RR repaired and u have tons of AP in the bank. I dont think u fear alot of counter attacks atm. Maybe u could use some of all those AP to move contrucnt btn's back to locked AG HQ so they can repair RR lines. Move 50-60ish units back for 10 ish turns and they should be able to get some more lines up and going giving some redundancy.
This ofc comes at a price in fort contruction in ur front line units but i wonder what Brads counter attack abilities are now, plus his mental state of mind of such atm.

Kind regards,

Rasmus