Evacuating Troops with Fast Transports

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:25 am

Fast Transport task forces can be used to evacuate troops. The advantage of using a fast transport TF for this is that the "pick up troops" order can be given at a base other than the one where the troops to be picked up are located. This allows the FT TF to race in at night, pick up the troops, and then dash out again so as to be out of range of the enemy's air planes by the time the daylight turn begins.

To create an evacuation TF, create a fast transport TF at any base where you have troops located. Once you have created the TF, select the "load troops only" option. On the screen that comes up you will see a "pick up troops" option at the bottom of the window. Click on it. In the new window that comes up you will be given a list of land units and locations. Select the location of the land unit you want to "pick up". Your FT TF will now move to that location and pick up the troops and return to its home base.

Attack Condor · Post by **Attack Condor** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 2:54 am

Although not as fast (or safe) as FTs, I have used a fleet of APs or AKs to execute a "slow FT" evacuation:
1. Steam a fleet into port (say 5 ships).
2. Use "load troop only" option. The first (or possible first two ships) will show loading.
3. Create a New TF and move the ship(s) that are loading into the new TF.
4. Continue #2 and #3 until all ships have a portion of the selected unit loaded (usually about 100 - 200 per ship).
5. Select Cancel Load Troop order for the New TF and be sure you have a destination port selected.

The partially loaded TF will scoot on its way out the door. While not as fast as a FT evac (the ships *will* be exposed in port for one day), it can get more of the troops/equipment out of danger. It's a gamble, but I thought I'd post it here for view.

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Sat Feb 15, 2003 11:05 pm

Attack Condor, you are basically telling folks to exploit the weakness in the Load/Unload routines that I keep complaining about in the Bugs forum.

Ships should load evenly, not first come, first serve as they do now. The fact that 10 individual single ship TF's load faster then a single TF of 10 ships is a bug, not a tactic

Attack Condor · Post by **Attack Condor** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 1:20 am

Sorry Mr. Fragg et al. I didn't know this was a sore spot...I discovered it on my own and wasn't advocating that everyone exploit a bug in the program.

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 3:45 am

Notice my

Condor ... certainly not faulting you, as the game sits now, it IS a valid tactic

I'm just trying to get it fixed as this is a Strategy game, where little tactical tricks like that really shouldn't exist

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 4:30 am

Hi, If I understand what has been said, this is not a bug nor is it gamey.

See if I'm on the same page.

I want to FT a unit with a load value of 1k

I assign 5 DD with 200 load each
I click load troops only
each DD loads 30 points of troops (5x30=150)
there remain 50 load points worth of troops so I make another FT TF of 2 DD and do the load only troops, then I combine the 2 TF's

This is not a bug nor gamey. I have traded 2 more ships to reduce the OP points required to load.
The program and AI are not perfect. They will work but a human over seeing events will always be more able to decide between OP points, ship number (and a host of other factors)

Is is easy to see, that by assigning more ships, you can in fact load a unit faster. (also they unload faster)

I use a varient of this for amph assault. I load units onto more ships, as a result they unload faster. (but this require using more ships.) Rather then load a IJA Rgt of 6.9k onto 3x3k or 4x2k I load them onto 8x1k ships. (notice the extra ship)

This is known as "combat loading" it reflects a choice made before hand. Rather then cram every inch/pound on board the idea is to be able to off load rapidly.

CapAndGown · Post by **CapAndGown** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:10 am

First, I agree with Mogami. In fact, he beat me to the punch. But I will say that it only makes sense that having 10 short queues will load faster than 3 long ones. Just because the program only picks 2 or 3 ships out of the available 10 to use for loading does not mean I should be prevented from splitting out the extra ships, setting them to load the unit as well, and then combine them all back into one TF. I do this all the time and I think it is a logical, realistic, and legitimate tactic to load and unload quicker.

Attack Condor · Post by **Attack Condor** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:27 am

originally posted by Mogami

See if I'm on the same page.

I believe so, Mogami; other than I was trying to simulate the same effect (except for the arrive/leave at night portion) of a fast evac with AKs and APs formed as a plain Transport TF.

I was trying to simulate multiple ships docking at once and each loading a fraction (in my quest to abandon PM early on and create what some have called "Fortress Australia" - see AAR "Do Condors like Sushi?") of the desired total. With the game loading one or two ships at a time, I would have to wait until the entire ship is full before the dock could announce it was "now serving #24" (the next ship). So I will use what the game offers (more of that American ingenuity?) with the technique I described earlier as a "slow FT".

Whether this is "realistic" in terms of a port having the personnel necessary to affect multiple loads at once (e.g. Port levels of 1 or 2) may be a valid point for discussion, but not being a programmer or "computer smart" (other than knowing where to put the quarter in to start the game

) I will leave that to those of you with such knowledge

.

And thank you Mr. Frag for your post... I didn't think you meant any malice, but it is still nice of you to post and say so

btw, have I said "I LOVE THIS GAME!" ?

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:37 am

Hi, How do troops load ships?
They are not hoisted up in nets, or on pallets loaded by crane.
Ships can load troops without port facilities. (Thay can all load at once. If at a pier troops just walk up, if at anchor they are loaded a boat at a time (so it depends on how many boats a ship has (plus what the port might have)

Of course heavy equipment would be harder to load.
I don't think sending 10 ships to pick up a unit 1 ship could carry is a bug, or exploiting the system.

Attack Condor · Post by **Attack Condor** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:41 am

Yes, Mogami...that is what I was referring to (bulldozers, guns, tanks, radar, etc.). Should have made that clear earlier

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 5:52 am

This is EXACTLY what I was trying to get across. This "combat loading" as Mogami phrased it SHOULD be a valid method, where assigning additional ships results in less being loaded PER ship, resulting in faster load and unload times.

The current problem is that to do this, you basically have to fool the game, by telling separate units to load the very same unit, they burn their ops points, then you CANCEL the load command (some troops were loaded anyways - ops points used), then pick the NEXT TF and lather and repeat

What Condor & I are pointing out is that by using this trick of cancelling out of the orders, you can use transports almost as it they are fast transports (without the massive wear and tear levels of Fast transport SYS damage).

The game currently calculates exactly how many of the ships in the TF are needed to load the unit, and neglects the other ships in the TF. This disables this share the troops over more ships to load/unload faster. We are simply abusing the existing commands to bypass this math routine in the game. I would prefer to see it fixed instead of having to resort to this level of micromanagement of ships.

While some might not feel this is gamey, I've gotta ask you, when you give a command, look at the results of the command (as it happens instantly), reform your TF to split out ships that didn't burn ops points, give them the load command, split out what didn't burn ops points, repeat, etc and THEN form them all back into the same task force that you started with, having abused the interface royally

I do find it a tad Gamey in nature.

As with all things, we all have our own views on these kinds of things and I don't expect everyone to see eye to eye ... I just wish they would make this multi-step load routine automatic so i don't have to run around with a million extra steps just to make valid use of my transports. If the port loadmaster did silly stunts like the load math here, I'd have him shot!

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:00 am

Hi, I don't cancel orders for one group, I just assign more. It would be incorrect if it were possible to load more in a phase then was possible.

Attack Condor · Post by **Attack Condor** » Sun Feb 16, 2003 6:12 am

I think I may have explained my original intent incorrectly

...

I use the cancel load order to ensure the TF leaves immediately rather than stick around and try to evac the entire unit. The TF runs home, dumps it's load and returns for the rest later. I do this to minimize exposure to the enemy while in port. This is where the FT has the advantage over what I do...it gets what it can and gets out before daybreak. I'm trying to split the difference...limiting my exposure in port to one day in return for getting a bigger % of the unit out of the area.

Hope this helps

ADM Vincent · Post by **ADM Vincent** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:51 am

Beware also that you can not evac. a dot with a FT. Friendly or otherwise.

You have to sail to the dot. Which ruins any advantage.

Cheers

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:44 pm

Originally posted by ADM Vincent
Beware also that you can not evac. a dot with a FT. Friendly or otherwise.

You have to sail to the dot. Which ruins any advantage.

Cheers

Hi, Yes you can evac a dot hex. I do it all the time. When the garrison of PM is pushed out they retreat to the dot hex Lea Lea.
I form FT at Townsville, use the load troops only, then pickup unit, then select one of the units at Lea Lea and the FT move, load and return (3-4 days for round trip) I've also evac'd from hex next to Luganville, east coast of NG, and dozens of other non base dot hexes.

ADM Vincent · Post by **ADM Vincent** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 7:59 pm

I've tried it and my FT won't move. Is there a check that Im not aware of that my FT isn't passing?

mogami · Post by **mogami** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:08 pm

Hi, You have to be in a port hex to start with.
Select load troops only
pick up unit
select unit to load.

Use ships with speeds over 25 knots and leave retire on

Mr.Frag · Post by **Mr.Frag** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:36 pm

If you are using smaller ships, they might not have the required fuel level and could be auto-aborting ... only thing I can think of that would be messing you up apart from what Mo's already posted (ie: gotta be IN port to issue the FT orders)

ADM Vincent · Post by **ADM Vincent** » Fri Jun 27, 2003 8:52 pm

I'l try it and BY GUM it will work!

Thanks

Evacuating Troops with Fast Transports

Evacuating Troops with Fast Transports

or slow FTs.......

Not a bug, not gamey

Now serving #24....

Ships loading

oops...

Methods

Let's try again...

Dots

FT dot