How do you kill those stinkin' coastwatchers?

[Oleg Mastruko]

Oh and another thing re gameplay balance and historic feel...

Allied players have fabolously brave and all-seeing coastwatchers, but why don't Japs have their recon planes on subs? I'd gladly compensate for cw sitting in Shortland harbor with a Glen recon aircraft over, say, Brisbane or Townsville. Even if Glen or his sub may get killed, while the cws remain undestructible.

Needless to say - sub based Jap recon planes actually DID fly over Australian harbors...

Japs are terribly handicapped in this game. As it is - in PBEM, this game is just a fine learning tool showing why going to war was frightfully BAD idea for Japs. (But we know that already.)

O.

[Cap Mandrake]

Want an historical reality option...how about "Code Purple Broken" option. If so chosen the Allied player would know the approximate compostion AND destination AND arrival dates of most big Jap TF's. Then try finding someone to play IJN

[denisonh]

Coastwatchers are nice, but as I use a great deal of naval search assets, they do not tell me much I don't already know.

The fact that B-24s take FOREVER to repair, I generally use them as search aircraft, along with the inexpereienced B-17 squadrons. Combine that with PBYs and mediums with a % of naval search, I can blanket an area and get good spotting levels on most any TF moving through the area, often during weather.

Then LBA blasts them out of the water. And the bombers on naval search often get a hit in now and then.

Intelligence that results in launched airstrikes is more effective than coast watchers.

And I am sure there are some SC#17 PBEM games going where the IJN is or has one. Based on Oleg's comments, the Allied player in those cases if a total friggin idiot.

I tend to believe this is not the case, and think the coastwatchers are not the decisive advantage that some imply they are.

[Drongo]

Posted by Oleg

I can live with coastwatchers in, say, Guadalcanal or NG, but having them in Shortland is, IMO, ridicolous. The island is so small, a naval inf. battalion would be combing it all in no time, finding any coastwatchers and destroying their equipment. Was there any cw on Shortlands historically?

This is what I remember from reading a book on the coastwatchers some time ago.

Coastwatchers were based in the Shortland Islands for a time during '42 but I don't think they were based there when the Japs were using it as a major refueling base.

However, right through the Guadalcanal period, the coastwatchers were capable of keeping a watch on the islands from posts in nearby SW Bougainville and Vella Lavella. Japanese ships could not use the Shortlands without having a good chance of being reported.

As to whether the Japanese could deal with coastwatchers, in '43 (IIRC) the Japanese launched a major army sweep of Bougainville to remove the watching posts. They appear to have been successful as the coastwatchers were forced to withdraw from the main island (by subs), only returning when the allies invaded in the latter half of '43.

So yes, maybe the presence of combat units at a location should have some impact on coastwatchers. Give you something to do with all those Jap garrison units.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Coastwatchers should be made optional. Hell if Jap sub doctrine or US damage control is made optional (and PBEM players usually put them at "off" and "on" respectively) - then cws should be made optional too.

O.

[Cap Mandrake]

I found a pic of a "Coastwatcher" (note the aircraft recognition silhouette chart in the background). It is now clear to me how they got them to work for free. I'll spot anyone who can identify the silhouette in the background one Rufe squadron in my next PBEM game

[Yamamoto]

I'm just amazed how accurate their vision is at NIGHT! I don't think my DDs, CLs, and CAs are running with their lights on at night so how can those coast watchers spot them so well?

Yamamoto

[denisonh]

Originally posted by Cap Mandrake
I found a pic of a "Coastwatcher" (note the aircraft recognition silhouette chart in the background). It is now clear to me how they got them to work for free. I'll spot anyone who can identify the silhouette in the background one Rufe squadron in my next PBEM game

Yea, and I believe that every time he made a "confimed report" they gave him the location of a bottle of whiskey hidden on the island.

[Raverdave]

Originally posted by Oleg Mastruko


Needless to say - sub based Jap recon planes actually DID fly over Australian harbors...

Oleg, for your interest I have listed below the some total of JAP recon flights over Australia:-

QUEENSLAND

Toowoomba date unknown
Magnetic Island date unknown
Calliope River date unknown
Townsville 21 March 1942
Cooktown 21 March 1942
Townsville 11 May 1942
Horn Island 17 June 1942
Cairns 24 June 1942
Cooktown 24 June 1942
Horn Island 6 July 1942
Horn Island 7 July 1942
Horn Island 20 July 1942
Horn Island 29 July 1942
Cairns 30 July 1942
Horn Island 31 August 1942
Mornington Island November 1943
Mornington Island 14 January 1944



NEW SOUTH WALES

Sydney Harbour 17 February 1942
Near Lord Howe Island 22 February 1942
Sydney Harbour 23 May 1942
Sydney Harbour 30 May 1942
Sydney Harbour 19 February 1943



NORTHERN TERRITORY

Darwin 10 February 1942
Darwin 19 February 1942
Darwin 10 March 1942
Katherine & Pine Creek 21 March 1942
Darwin 31 March 1942
Darwin 15 April 1942
Darwin 22 April 1942
Darwin 27 April 1942
Bathurst Island 15 June 1942
Darwin (aborted) 21 November 1942
Darwin 22 November 1942
Darwin (aborted) 24 November 1942
Darwin 27 November 1942
Darwin 29 November 1942
Darwin 3 December 1942
Darwin (aborted) 11 March 1943
Darwin (aborted) 12 March 1943
Darwin (aborted) 13 March 1943
Darwin 14 March 1943
Millingimbi 13 May 1943
Millingimbi 15 May 1943



TASMANIA

Hobart 1 March 1942



VICTORIA

Melbourne & Port Phillip Bay 26 February 1942



WESTERN AUSTRALIA

Broome & Treville 2 March 1942
Broome & Treville 3 March 1942
Broome & Treville 10 March 1942
Broome & Treville 20 March 1942
Wyndham 23 March 1942
Drysdale 28 March 1942
Broome & Treville 3 April 1942
Drysdale 25 May 1942
Drysdale 26 May 1942
Drysdale 27 May 1942
Broome & Treville 15 July 1942
Wyndham 15 July 1942
Drysdale 15 July 1942
Broome & Treville 24 July 1942
Broome & Treville 25 July 1942
Broome & Treville 26 July 1942
Broome & Treville 27 July 1942
Broome & Treville 13 November 1942
Wyndham & Drysdale 13 November 1942
Swanbourne, WA 1943
Drysdale area 6 Nov 1943
Drysdale area 7 Nov 1943
Drysdale area 3 Feb 1944
Drysdale area 20 Feb 1944
Drysdale/Truscott area 20 Jul 1944



REFERENCE

Jenkins, David, "Battle Surface - Japan's Submarine War against Australia 1942 - 44", Random House Australia, 1992

15 page monograph from: Military History Section National Institute for Defense Studies
2-2-1 Nakameguro, Meguro-ku, Tokyo Japan
prepared by Retired (MSDF) Captain Kawano Teruaki on August 29th 1997
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn

[Drex]

Actually there were quite a few flights. Perhaps not as many as would occur in UV but enough to simulate in the game. And of course there may have been more flights whose logs were lost.

[elcid]

According to Cdr. Feldt, who ran the coastwatchers, each "teleradio" involved three boxes about one foot by one foot by two feet, and they were powered by automobile batteries, these in turn charged by a motor-generator which weighed 70 pounds. This equipment was "portable" after a fashion, and normally "12 to 14 porters" were used. The coastwatchers had the problem of being detected whenever they transmitted, which transmissions also potentially gave away their location (provided two stations obtained bearings). HFDF was not as secret as the USN thought it was, and it was standard equipment on many Japanese vesseles, not to mention dedicated communications units. There was a deliberate effort to track down and kill coastwatchers, who were (when civilians) illegally operating in any occupied territory. To make it less clear they were civilians, a number were "commissioned" as "third leftenants" in the RNAR, although this was done without education, training or ceremony, and is of doubtful legality. Nor did it work: they were shot anyway, and not treated as POWs. The ability of a coastwatcher to operate was a function of many things, and it was not uniform in all places.


I do not object to coastwatchers per se. But I believe there should be a statistical model that makes the chance they are neutralized (by moving to a safer hex as well as being caught) each day. I also think the Japanese military coastwatching service should count, and should be included, in every hex with a red dot in it. This was not a bunch of civilians, operating illegally in occupied territory, but uniformed regulars, mainly radio communications units trained in observation.

[Bosun]

Oleg,
I have played 4 scen 17s and 4 scen 19s; all as IJN. I have won 2 Scen 17s. my other 6 games are all ongoing and I am leading in all of them. Some by large margins and I have some games of less than 6 weeks. My opponets are Mogami, Kid, Crocky, U2, Saueracker and John. I don't think anyone would consider these awesome warriors as pushovers. I feel sorry for the USN for the first 2 months. This game is well balanced and fair. The upcoming patch will only make it moreso.

[Drex]

Some might call this "shoalboasting"- a term I picked up from a forum aquaintance- but the eminence of your opponents suggests that you know of what you speak: that this is, afterall, a game of skill and some players are going to win no matter what.

[Oleg Mastruko]

Originally posted by Bosun
Oleg,
I have played 4 scen 17s and 4 scen 19s; all as IJN. I have won 2 Scen 17s. my other 6 games are all ongoing and I am leading in all of them. Some by large margins and I have some games of less than 6 weeks. My opponets are Mogami, Kid, Crocky, U2, Saueracker and John. I don't think anyone would consider these awesome warriors as pushovers. I feel sorry for the USN for the first 2 months. This game is well balanced and fair. The upcoming patch will only make it moreso.

Bosun I'd love to play against you as US, when the new patch is out, to see for myself what you're made of

Ah, bombers, beer, Brisbane, B24s, B17s, babes and beaches - (also known as 7 Bs) - I can already smell the sweet life of Allied commander, a life hardened Jap mosquito-eater like myself haven't tasted for a quite a long time (Since the last game with Apollo, in fact.)

Oh yes, and coastwatchers too In the best Ozzie tradition let's call them "bloody coastwatchers" to get to the 8th B shall we?

O.

[Drex]

Yes,Yes is this what challenges are made of? Come on you guys !fight it out and post on the AAR forum. I can smell a good battle coming on!

[denisonh]

Originally posted by Drex
Yes,Yes is this what challenges are made of? Come on you guys !fight it out and post on the AAR forum. I can smell a good battle coming on!

Now that would be some d@amn good reading as an AAR thread!\

Drop the gloves and go for it!

[Drex]

Ccome on Oleg and Bosun. Are you guys game?

[fropa98]

Anyone remember Frampton and King George coastwatching on those islands off New Britain in Black Sheep Squadron TV series?

[Snigbert]

And Dan from Night Court flew with them as well...

[crsutton]

Nothing really wrong with coastwatchers and the reports can be fairly inaccurate. Perphaps give the Japanese limited abiltity as well. I don't think it is that important.