Supply depots won't move

Share your best strategy tips with other gamers here.

Moderators: Panther Paul, Arjuna

User avatar
Bil H
Posts: 1705
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 6:03 am
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia
Contact:

RE: Supply depots won't move

Post by Bil H »

ORIGINAL: Arjuna
BTW just for the record Bil is an old stuck in the mud. He is also right most times, which can be very annoying.[;)]

Wait a minute I want to add that to my diary. [:D]
ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

That's a bit harsh, Bil.

Perhaps... but you will never convince me that moving hundreds of tons of supplies that are stockpiled in a Brigade or Division supply dump can be done in any way other than at a snails pace... at least not without sacrificing the actual resupply of the subordinate commands. Long supply chains are a fact of warfare and mobile units often outrun their supply and this is often the only thing that brings their advance to a halt.

I think what you are referring to in your examples above are not major supply dumps but supply points, which trickle supply down from the main supply dump (Regiment, Brigade, or Division) and usually only have on hand a bit more than they can inherently carry.. so for these formations yes they can jump forward... however for the large supply dumps, moving these forward was not an easy matter and could take days to accomplish.. and usually with outside help (move by rail, corps level assets, etc.). These Supply Points are not currently represented in Command Ops (BFTB and HTTR, but will be in LOTB).

Regiments in particular rarely had large supply dumps of their own but gathered their supply from Division, and the line units, (Battalions) would grab their needed supplies from these points and move them to their Companies with their own inherent transport.

Bil
Ah, well, since you do not wish death, then how about a rubber chicken?

Sam the Eagle

My Combat Mission Blog:
https://battledrill.blogspot.com/
jimcarravall
Posts: 642
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2006 1:11 am

RE: Supply depots won't move

Post by jimcarravall »

ORIGINAL: wodin

ORIGINAL: jimcarravallah

It already is an option for delivery to a supply entry point (SEP); very prominent in the HttR scenarios.
Forgot that but I was thinking of air drops called in\to from the units\HQ position.

Almost answered that as well, but didn't want to read it into your post.

Though desired, I don't think it's very realistic in terms of the typical scenario's time span, World War II communications capabilities, or "supplied" headquarter span of control responsibilities.

Going backwards in order, regiments were pretty large but mobile operations, and air dropping supplies to them would require a significant number of aircraft to sustain a typical day to day operation.

World War II telecommunications capabilities were significantly less reliable than what is available today. The broadcast spectrum was limited (if I recall correctly, only the Amplitude Modulation (AM) band was available). Broadcasts in that band are either line of sight (meaning communications from a regiment couldn't effectively go "over the horizon" without relaying them through another broadcast location) or "skipped" between the earth and troposphere over long distances by relatively high powered broadcast antennas (something a regiment couldn't set up efficiently while on the move, and probably didn't have sufficient power to run effectively once set up -- particularly if fuel is flown in to run broadcast-powering generators).

Finally, the logistics lead time to define resupply requirements, gather the necessary supplies, package them at an airhead for delivery, allocate aircraft for the drop, and drop them exceeds the time available in a scenario for such coordination unless the headquarters base is left in place for several days (my guess is about three).

Since "staying in place" is what's required because of the communications and lead time constraints on being flexible to demands, given the distances covered in the typical airborne operational scenarios available in the game one is just as well off protecting the airdrop / glider-delivered / air landing SEP and moving the base as necessary.
Take care,

jim
User avatar
wodin
Posts: 10709
Joined: Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:13 am
Location: England
Contact:

RE: Supply depots won't move

Post by wodin »

yeah thought it might be out of WW2 era.
Lieste
Posts: 1823
Joined: Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:50 am

RE: Supply depots won't move

Post by Lieste »

ORIGINAL: Bil H
ORIGINAL: Arjuna
BTW just for the record Bil is an old stuck in the mud. He is also right most times, which can be very annoying.[;)]

Wait a minute I want to add that to my diary. [:D]
ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

That's a bit harsh, Bil.

Perhaps... but you will never convince me that moving hundreds of tons of supplies that are stockpiled in a Brigade or Division supply dump can be done in any way other than at a snails pace... at least not without sacrificing the actual resupply of the subordinate commands. Long supply chains are a fact of warfare and mobile units often outrun their supply and this is often the only thing that brings their advance to a halt.

I think what you are referring to in your examples above are not major supply dumps but supply points, which trickle supply down from the main supply dump (Regiment, Brigade, or Division) and usually only have on hand a bit more than they can inherently carry.. so for these formations yes they can jump forward... however for the large supply dumps, moving these forward was not an easy matter and could take days to accomplish.. and usually with outside help (move by rail, corps level assets, etc.). These Supply Points are not currently represented in Command Ops (BFTB and HTTR, but will be in LOTB).

Regiments in particular rarely had large supply dumps of their own but gathered their supply from Division, and the line units, (Battalions) would grab their needed supplies from these points and move them to their Companies with their own inherent transport.

Bil

Bil, my understanding was that CmdOps is supposed to make a distinction between organically carried supply and the stockpile (with abstracted representation of the latter at a geographical location. Dave, is this my imagination or is that what is going on (or supposed to?).

Perhaps part of the issue is the absence of Bn level tactical supply ~ rather than a single truck bringing a day's resupply of ammunition to a Bn, it requires 4-5 to supply each sub-unit with only a fraction of the payload of even a jeep being used in most cases. With a smaller, more tactically 'expendable' collecting/distribution point within a combat formation the number and flexibility of supply chains could be promoted without losing the inherently inflexible nature of Supply Dumps.

It might be beneficial to break supply organisations explicitly into 'Depot & Distribution' and 'Delivery/collection' methods, because the 'columns' did frequently move with their supported echelon (one bound back), and it was only the depots that were 'static'... though new tactical ones would be built up as soon as the tactical situation stabalised. (An ASP was the 'tip' of the supply chain, and distinct from a fixed 'Depot' further back...)
User avatar
Arjuna
Posts: 17768
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2003 11:18 am
Location: Canberra, Australia
Contact:

RE: Supply depots won't move

Post by Arjuna »

ORIGINAL: Lieste
Bil, my understanding was that CmdOps is supposed to make a distinction between organically carried supply and the stockpile (with abstracted representation of the latter at a geographical location. Dave, is this my imagination or is that what is going on (or supposed to?).
Each unit carries its own supplies - ie its first line of supply - either on the man or in organic vehicles. The Bases represent large dumps managed by higher HQs. In reality at any one time a Div Base may have several dumps - eg the one it created last week at X but has not left behind in its move to Y where it is curtrently stockpiling. It would draw down the dump at X as time and resources permit. But I opted to not model that level of complexity.
Dave "Arjuna" O'Connor
www.panthergames.com
black88g
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Mar 06, 2013 7:40 am

RE: Supply depots won't move

Post by black88g »

I don't think I'll be able to win this. There's just too many Germans in the way.

Image
Attachments
httr4.jpg
httr4.jpg (628.83 KiB) Viewed 217 times
Post Reply

Return to “The War Room”