Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee, Docup(A)-Koniu(J)

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Last thought: 250kg isn't terrible, but isn't that great.  When you send kami's they use a target list just like any other Naval attack: CV>BB>CA>...  by '44 allied ships and damage control is such that is takes a lot of 250kg hits to do much.  Just like your NavAttack, your best kami's are those using +500kg.  The 250kg are ok, but ....

just keep that in mind when you are doing your kami builds.  Yeah, I definitely have a LOT of 250kg kami's in my final mix ... but I am trying to get as many 500kg and 800kg kami's as I can.  Oh, and 2x250 != 1x500kg at all.  it just 2x250 kg that may bounce off.  1x500kg will penetrate.

OK. But all planes available in `44 that fly with 500kg or 800kg bomb are navy planes. For army all of them are using only 250kg.
Only Ki-119 and Ki-115 are using 800kg bomb (available in 12/45 and 6/45). So there is not big chose for `44 and early `45 and Oscar not looking so bad.

At lest Oscar will eat some of CAP and allow D4Y to get trugh it.

Aren't the hits from a kami bigger than the bomb load? I've always assumed so, but I haven't seen this mentioned, come to think of it. A plane full of fuel hitting loaded with bombs is surely more damaging than just the bombs? I would also think a 2E should be given a larger boom than a 1E. A Kate more than an Oscar, by some factor. An Emily would make a very big boom!

Thinking of that, how many groups, or maybe what percentage of groups do you change to kamis, Pax? I know you can't change back, so you don't want to get stuck with all kamis, especially if you get short of pilots.

I am not sure but i think that plane durability plus bomb load is used to calculate damage made by kamikaze.
But plane alone will probably made only sys damage (especially vs heavy armored target)
so 500+kg bomb are needed to penetrate armor and make serous damage to ship
Still 250kg bom should work well against CA or smaller ship.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: obvert

Aren't the hits from a kami bigger than the bomb load? I've always assumed so, but I haven't seen this mentioned, come to think of it. A plane full of fuel hitting loaded with bombs is surely more damaging than just the bombs? I would also think a 2E should be given a larger boom than a 1E. A Kate more than an Oscar, by some factor. An Emily would make a very big boom!

Thinking of that, how many groups, or maybe what percentage of groups do you change to kamis, Pax? I know you can't change back, so you don't want to get stuck with all kamis, especially if you get short of pilots.

I am not sure but i think that plane durability plus bomb load is used to calculate damage made by kamikaze.
But plane alone will probably made only sys damage (especially vs heavy armored target)
so 500+kg bomb are needed to penetrate armor and make serous damage to ship
Still 250kg bom should work well against CA or smaller ship.

Never seen a dev comment on this. Maybe Alfred will drop by with a search result.

My testing has shown me that the bomb size is the major factor. If there are effects from the plane, and there may very well be, they are lost in the randomness of the results. But you clearly see big differences in results between a 250kg, 500kg, and 800kg bomb for kami's.

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: obvert

Aren't the hits from a kami bigger than the bomb load? I've always assumed so, but I haven't seen this mentioned, come to think of it. A plane full of fuel hitting loaded with bombs is surely more damaging than just the bombs? I would also think a 2E should be given a larger boom than a 1E. A Kate more than an Oscar, by some factor. An Emily would make a very big boom!

Thinking of that, how many groups, or maybe what percentage of groups do you change to kamis, Pax? I know you can't change back, so you don't want to get stuck with all kamis, especially if you get short of pilots.

I am not sure but i think that plane durability plus bomb load is used to calculate damage made by kamikaze.
But plane alone will probably made only sys damage (especially vs heavy armored target)
so 500+kg bomb are needed to penetrate armor and make serous damage to ship
Still 250kg bom should work well against CA or smaller ship.

Never seen a dev comment on this. Maybe Alfred will drop by with a search result.

My testing has shown me that the bomb size is the major factor. If there are effects from the plane, and there may very well be, they are lost in the randomness of the results. But you clearly see big differences in results between a 250kg, 500kg, and 800kg bomb for kami's.

I make fast search but find anything about it.

We all know how that game is complex and we can be sure that devs don`t forget about that obvious thing like damage made directly by kamikaze planes.

Even I can think in seconds about 3 ways to simulate damage made by plane.
a)all planes are the same (no difference between Oscar or Emily hit)
b)engine numbers (more engines bigger plane bigger bum)
c)plane durability (bigger durability more damage)

They could also use such factor as speed of plane - faster more damage etc.
Code can by as complex as we want. But by the end all what mater is 800kg bomb penetrating Essex deck and exploding in ammo magazine[:D]

I think i don`t want to know. Mystery hidden in game code is what make that game so good.
Knowing that will spoil fun.

[koniu]

3 Apr 43

Burma
4E close Lasio AF. No opposition in air.
I am defending only Mandalay, Magwe and Ranggon. I just cant be everywhere and Spreding my CAP is not an option. To defend against P-38 and F4U sweeps i nedd to have 100+ figters in base.

Christmas Is IO
Is now AF lvl 2. I starting sweeping Cocos. Docup have there 14 fighters. When i gain air superiority i will try to close AF or at lest slow down building of AF on island (currently lvl 4)

Salomons
CL St. Luis avoid 4 torpedo savlo south of Tagula Is.

I start upgrading planes to N1K1. Today i split 45 Sentai and first 15 Georges show up in Rabaul. In three days another 15 and in another 3 days 15 more and i will rebuild unit.

China
I lost 6 bombers when enemy LCAP intercept them in north China. 3 pilots KIA
I lost/win? another ground battle. Even i have 1:3 adds enemy take 2x bigger loses

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: koniu

I start upgrading planes to N1K1.

Nice!

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: koniu

I start upgrading planes to N1K1.

Nice!

Is it almost like Christmas. I know that Docup is getting better planes but still it nice to have new toys

[koniu]

4 Apr 43

Burma
104 4E (B-24 and B-17) visit again Lashio

Java
33 A6M3a sweep Cocos Island. They find and engage 18 enemy fighters (Marlets II and P-39)
They manage to shot down 9 enemy planes for lose of 2 Zeros an one pilot. I will attack tomorrow again. It looks like enemy have 10 fighters left.
I should be able to bombard island in two days.

DEI
I lost small TK near Ambon.

Salomons
I lost I-26 sub near Cooktown and two Es near Rabul after they meet two enemy destroyers

Only three N1K1 manage to repair. It taking very long time to repair them even i have extra 120 AV support in Rabaul

75 4E bomb Lae and 55 Rabaul

R&D
N1K2 advance to 6/44

Bad news
I need to pay my taxes today[:(]

[koniu]

Just quick info.

Game is on hold, but nothing to worry
Docup with his wife are skiing.

Personally i must tell that we or at lest i need few days break from game.
I think we can return to game anytime. I just not know when Docup will back.

I will not rush him to do turns as i really appreciate those days without game.

[koniu]

5-9 APR 43

Burma
Allied bombers bombing everyday Bhamo and Lasio

Sumatra-Java
Palembang is now AF lvl 7. 70 F and FB is defending Palembang oil fields. Another 100 planes is in renege to support them.

Enemy TF is closing toward Cocos Is. Bombers in alert

South DEI
Mostly quiet on 9th bombers from Timor intercept enemy convoy near Australia coast.

Morning Air attack on TF, near Truscott at 67,123

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
B5N2 Kate x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
xAKL Wear, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk
AM Ballarat, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
xAKL Shan Tung, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
AM Gympie, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
xAKL Wosang, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAKL Corrimal, Bomb hits 4, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Salomons
All AF around PM closed and without supplies. I am expecting that very soon Docup will land in PM
I shot down 9 enemy fighters when Zeros sweep dot bases around Tagula and MB. No loses on Japanese side.

N1K1 introduce him self to Allies when sweeping enemy base around MB. No enemy plans in air. 45 Georges is flaying CAP over Rabaul.

Marshals
Enemy TF is closing toward Maoeolap. I think it is another attempt to resupply that base.

China
Finaly we push back enemy forces in north china. And we return to moving toward Lanchow
Ground combat at 88,31 (near Dalan Dzadagad)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 17744 troops, 144 guns, 206 vehicles, Assault Value = 562

Defending force 20145 troops, 197 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 407

Japanese adjusted assault: 741

Allied adjusted defense: 268

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
979 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 86 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 21 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Allied ground losses:
5249 casualties reported
Squads: 290 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 380 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 13 destroyed, 11 disabled
Guns lost 25 (17 destroyed, 8 disabled)
Units retreated 6

Economy

HI reserve is 1500000 and is growing wit 5000-5500 points daily

[Saros]

Kamikaze plane definitely do damage other than bombs although I don't know how much or how its calculated. You can test this by using air transports as kamikazes, turns out Topsy's can sink unarmored ships but aren't particularly good at it. [8D]

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: Saros

Kamikaze plane definitely do damage other than bombs although I don't know how much or how its calculated. You can test this by using air transports as kamikazes, turns out Topsy's can sink unarmored ships but aren't particularly good at it. [8D]

I was sure they damage enemy ships even without bombs but thank for confirmation

About Ki-43 Oscar as kamikaze
I make few tests (using downfall scenario) how good kamikaze Ki-43 Oscar is.

1. Almost always bombs penetrate armor of CL, CLAA, DD or smaller ships
2. In ~50-60% hits bombs penetrate armor of Essex class CV or modern CA
3. Almost newer bombs penetrate BB armor.

Even when bombs not penetrate number of system damage is good. I have Essex CV hit by 3 kamikaze without penetration of armor that after attack was not able to send planes in air.

About kamikaze attack after beta patch
Coordination is nightmare after patch. When playing test under last official patch i seen 1-2 big waves and few smaller waves. After last beta. In most cases i saw multiple medium and small size waves.

What tham mean.
I have 6 CV TF (~300 figters, on 50% layered CAP, range 6) plus BB CLAA and DD as AAA suport.
I was sending almost 1500 planes to kamikaze attack (all kind of planes) from AF lvl 8-10. They even have fighter escort

Result is that in official patch i see much better score. Big wave that arrive against CAP is slathered but many planes are able to get trough it and score hits. Nothing huge but few CV, BB CA hits forcing enemy to retreat those ships from action.
As always small waves have no chance.

After beta waves are much smaller but there is many more of them. What i can say is that we see results closer to reality. Most planes is shot down by CAP and those few that get trough is so disrupted that they score almost no hits. Probably 1/3 of those under official patch or less

Also maybe is is my personal feeling but under Beta AAA fire look more powerful.
newer counted but it can be 30% of plane that get trough CAP was shutdown by AAA fire and i playing under stock scenario

[koniu]

10 Apr 43

CV Unryu and CV Amagi arrive today in Japan. They will join DD escort and two Heavy Cruisers and will sail to Pacific to rejoin with KB in about 7-10 days.
I have to downgrade TB and DB of Amagi to B6N1 an and D4Y1 because i can`t fill those air groups to 100% size with planes because N2 and Y3 are still far from production.

Only fighters will stay with A6M5b but after first combat they will probably need to downgrade to M5

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: koniu

I have to downgrade TB and DB of Amagi to B6N1 an and D4Y1 because i can`t fill those air groups to 100% size with planes because N2 and Y3 are still far from production.

Only fighters will stay with A6M5b but after first combat they will probably need to downgrade to M5

Note to self:
"When expeditiing CV's, be sure to advance requisite air frames to match"

[;)]

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: koniu

I have to downgrade TB and DB of Amagi to B6N1 an and D4Y1 because i can`t fill those air groups to 100% size with planes because N2 and Y3 are still far from production.

Only fighters will stay with A6M5b but after first combat they will probably need to downgrade to M5

Note to self:
"When expeditiing CV's, be sure to advance requisite air frames to match"

[;)]

Lucky i am playing PDU On so downgrading is not a problem.
Not know how this work with PDU Off but if player cant downgrade after firs combat hi will end with unit useless for combat

[PaxMondo]

Agreed.  I made the comment a bit tongue in cheek, but I actually did add it to my gameplay planning notes.  [:D]

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: koniu

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: koniu

I have to downgrade TB and DB of Amagi to B6N1 an and D4Y1 because i can`t fill those air groups to 100% size with planes because N2 and Y3 are still far from production.

Only fighters will stay with A6M5b but after first combat they will probably need to downgrade to M5

Note to self:
"When expeditiing CV's, be sure to advance requisite air frames to match"

[;)]

Lucky i am playing PDU On so downgrading is not a problem.
Not know how this work with PDU Off but if player cant downgrade after firs combat hi will end with unit useless for combat

I've had the same issue until recently, when my A6M5b finally went into production. I didn't face combat during the 6-7 months of interim, though. I got the D4Y3 a few months ago and all of the KB is now upgraded and given reserves, which feels good.

If only I had the Sam now.

I just read in Islands of Destiny that he Sam was being heavily researched already in 41-42, but was for some reason put on hold. Then after Midway it was picked up again.

[koniu]

11 Apr 43

Burma
Time to fight back.
Empire air force will fight from today.
W CAPed Bhamo. 50 Lighting sweep shotting down 34 Japanese fighters but allies pay for that with 18 Lightnings.

Morning Air attack on Bhamo , at 63,44

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 22 NM, estimated altitude 31,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 18
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 50
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 62
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 13

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 2 destroyed

---------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on Bhamo , at 63,44

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 25 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 9
Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 48
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 46
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 9

Allied aircraft
P-38G Lightning x 25

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIa Tojo: 2 destroyed
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 3 destroyed
Ki-45 KAIa Nick: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38G Lightning: 1 destroyed

[koniu]

12 Apr 43

Nothing important to report about war actions

R&D
Great news.
Ki-84a Frank is now official in R&D.
First factory is fully repaired. Together with engine bonus Frank for 100% will be avaible in 12/43 [/b]. I have 4 more factories close to be repaired also. With little more luck Hayate will start arriving to combat units in August/September 1943[:D]

[obvert]

Congrats!

It's good, and will give you the best chance you have until the 3rd gen fighters arrive, but it will also be fighting a lot of better Allied planes. Sweeping it can still be very dangerous.

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: obvert

Congrats!

It's good, and will give you the best chance you have until the 3rd gen fighters arrive, but it will also be fighting a lot of better Allied planes. Sweeping it can still be very dangerous.

I hoping to keep status quo between Ki-84/P-47 like i have now between Ki-44/P-38.
Or at lest be close to that.