Unit Descriptions: Air, Naval, Land

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Could game grognards please check what I have said is correct re the Commonwealth control?

[2801 Polish Guards Armoured Army]
.P This counter, available from 1943, represents the Polish armies-in-exile that
fought for the Allies following the defeat of Poland.
.P Polish troops fought with both the Western Allies and the Soviet Union during
World War II, although this counter is available to the United Kingdom only in
World In Flames (Poland is a minor country controlled by the Commonwealth).
.P After the fall of Poland, a number of Poles were able to escape to France.
Plans were put in place to create two Polish corps that would be equipped by the
French and be placed under their command. These plans were incomplete by the time
the Germans invaded France in May 1940. However Polish units that were ready
fought in the French Campaign and also the equally ill-fated Norwegian Campaign,
where they assisted the capture of the port of Narvik.
.P Following the defeat of France, around 20,000 Poles escaped to the United
Kingdom where they were incorporated within the British Army command structure in
September 1940 as the Polish 1st Corps.
.P A second Polish Corps was created in the Middle East in 1943, mostly from Poles that had been
placed in labour camps in the Soviet Union, but who were later released following
the German invasion of Russia in June 1941. One of the core components of the 2nd
Corps was the 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division. This division was built up around
the Polish Independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade, a unit that had been formed
in 1940 in French controlled Syria as part of the Polish Army in France. The
Carpathian Brigade gave sterling service with the British Army in North Africa -
including the siege of Tobruk.
.P Polish units fought alongside their British and Commonwealth allies in all the
major western theatres - North Africa and Italy (2nd Corps) and France (1st
Corps). For the campaign in northwest Europe, the 1st Armoured Division fought as
part of the 2nd Canadian Army, while the 1st Independent Parachute Brigade was
part of the First Allied Airborne Army, and took part in the Arnhem operation.
.P The major units of each of the corps was as follows:
.B 1st Corps - commanded by Lt-General Mieczyslaw Boruta-Spiechowicz (1943 until
1945 and thereafter by Lt-General Stanislaw Maczek)
.B 1st Armoured Division
.B 1st Independent Parchute Brigade
.B 16th Independent Armoured Brigade.
.P
.B 2nd Corps - commanded by Lt-General Wladyslaw Anders
.B 2nd Armoured Brigade
.B 3rd Carpathian Infantry Division
.B 5th Kresowa Infantry Division

? Where does the Guards appelation come from?
I am unsure of the 16th Armoured Bde, it may have been formed as a training unit or been just a cadre, there was also a 2nd Polish "Grenadier" Division formed but disbanded around DDay. (Nafziger quotes a 1st Polish Grenadier Armoured Division as the Orkney Garrison in June 44!)
For 3rd & 5th Divs, it it worth a comment that they were raised with only 2 Bdes each but formed a 3rd Bde from captured POW? and that they were the captors of Monte Cassino.

warspite1

JeffK I do not know where the Guards appelation came from I'm afraid, but until Armies In Flames makes an appearance [;)], the unit designations will always be a tad ahistorical.

Yes, I too could find nothing to confirm what the 16th Armoured Brigade was and where it fitted into the great scheme of things but on balance I decided to keep in - can remove if people disagree. The 2nd Polish I removed and I am comfortable - in the absence of other info - that that is the right treatment - I have said these were the major units - perhaps most important would be a better term.

I purposely haven't gone into division size (i.e. TO&E) as to do so for one division means research on all others. However, mention of Monte Cassino is a sensible addition (as I mentioned Narvik, Arnhem and Tobruk). I will amend accordingly.

Extraneous - it would be helpful to let me know what you disagree with here. There is nothing in the links that you provide (as far as I can see) to make me change what I have written - but as always am happy to look at suggestions if I 've got something wrong.

My initial draft had the circa 80,000 figure for the Polish Army in France - seems to have gotten removed [&:] I will put that back in too.

[Extraneous]

Exactly my point JeffK.

Also note that the 2nd Polish Corps fought for the USSR.

1st Polish Independent Parachute Brigade was attached to 1st British Airborne Division.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Extraneous

Exactly my point JeffK.

Also note that the 2nd Polish Corps fought for the USSR.

1st Polish Independent Parachute Brigade was attached to 1st British Airborne Division.

warspite1

Can you confirm your sources please re the Polish 2nd Corps? From what I can make out - and confirmed by the links you provided - the 2nd contained the units that fought in Italy.

[warspite1]

Could someone who knows the rules please confirm whether or not only the Commonwealth can operate Polish Army units in Exile please? From memory I believe that is the case, but want to check.

Thank-you.

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Could someone who knows the rules please confirm whether or not only the Commonwealth can operate Polish Army units in Exile please? From memory I believe that is the case, but want to check.

Thank-you.

I can confirm that CW is the only Major Power that can control Polish units in Exile.

The only way any other MP can control Polish units is if it liberate Poland.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Orm

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Could someone who knows the rules please confirm whether or not only the Commonwealth can operate Polish Army units in Exile please? From memory I believe that is the case, but want to check.

Thank-you.

I can confirm that CW is the only Major Power that can control Polish units in Exile.

The only way any other MP can control Polish units is if it liberate Poland.

warspite1

Cheers Ormster [:)]

[warspite1]

Okay final version for the Polish Guards Armoured Army

.P This counter, available from 1943, represents the Polish armies-in-exile that
fought for the Western Allies following the defeat of Poland.
.P In reality, Polish troops fought with both the Western Allies and the Soviet
Union during World War II. However, this counter is available only to the
Commonwealth player in World In Flames (Poland is a minor country controlled by
the Commonwealth) and so an overview of Polish units that fought under British
Army command is provided here.
.P After the fall of Poland, just over 80,000 Poles - escapees and Polish émigrés
- volunteered to continue the fight against the Germans. Plans were begun to
create two Polish corps that would be equipped by the French and be placed under
their command. These plans were incomplete by the time the Germans invaded France
in May 1940.
.P However some Polish units were ready by the time fighting erupted in the West
in April 1940, and these units fought in both the French Campaign and the equally
ill-fated Norwegian Campaign. During the latter, the Independent Podhale Rifle
Brigade were instrumental in the capture of the port of Narvik just prior to the
Allied withdrawal.
.P Following the defeat of France, around 20,000 Poles escaped to the United
Kingdom. In July 1940, these troops formed the nucleus of what became the Polish
1st Corps, which was incorporated within the British Army command structure.
.P A second Polish corps was created in the Middle East at the end of 1942,
mostly from Poles that had been released from labour camps in the Soviet Union
after the Germans attacked Russia in June 1941. One of the core components of this 2nd
Corps was the 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division. This division was built up around
the Polish Independent Carpathian Rifle Brigade, a unit that had been formed in
1940 in French controlled Syria as part of the Polish Army in France. The
Carpathian Brigade gave sterling service with the British Army in North Africa
and took part in the defence of the port of Tobruk.
.P Polish units fought alongside their British and Commonwealth allies in all the
major western theatres - North Africa and Italy (2nd Corps) and France (1st
Corps). For the campaign in northwest Europe, the 1st Armoured Division fought as
part of the 2nd Canadian Army, while the 1st Independent Parachute Brigade was
attached to the British 1st Airborne Division for the Arnhem operation. The Poles
reputation for toughness had already been reinforced during the bloody battle for
Monte Cassino in Italy. The two Infantry Divisions from the Polish 2nd Corps were
heavily involved in the climax of the five month campaign, and it was Polish
troops that eventually took Monte Cassino, paving the way open to Rome.
.P The exact make up of the two Polish corps has been difficult to identify as
it appears that some units were cadre strength only and / or never saw action.
The key components of the two corps however were:
.B 1st Corps - commanded by Lt-General Mieczyslaw Boruta-Spiechowicz (1943 until
1945 and thereafter by Lt-General Stanislaw Maczek)
.B 1st Armoured Division
.B 1st Independent Parchute Brigade
.P
.B 2nd Corps - commanded by Lt-General Wladyslaw Anders
.B 2nd Armoured Brigade
.B 3rd Carpathian Infantry Division
.B 5th Kresowa Infantry Division

[Extraneous]

Sorry my error due to:

"Shortly after Germany's attack on the Soviet Union, Stalin ordered the release of Wladyslaw Anders from prison, with the intention of forming a Polish army on Soviet soil. By August 4, 1941"



But more good information on the Poles can be found at:

Great Polish Generals of WW2

[Jimm]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Is there any historical basis to these units?

I find no reference to a NIZZA/MIZZA Cavalry Corps, but the name given to 1st Cavalry Rgt/ 2nd Cavalry Division is NIZZA.

Same for Filiberto corps, no historical reference but there is a 2e Emanuele Filiberto Testa di Ferro Celere (Cavalry) Division

(Italian Army Order of Battle edited by W Victor Madeja)

As I read further I see Jimm also questioned the naming of these Corps.
IMVHO, if you want to be historical keep to the facts, dont use fantasy naming of units.

Hi Jeff

There are an awful lot of hypotheticals within the Italian unit list, often based on smaller, historical formations. Mainly I think this is because for the Italian army corps organisation was an administrative function based on area of operation. There is not a lot of flavour there- the interesting stuff is at division level or lower, and hence when Harry produced the original cardboard game he picked on these more interesting names.

Actually I don't think we need to get too hung up on whether units are hypothetical - whether expansions of real, smaller units or total fictional- so long as it is stated as such in the writeup. This game is nothing if not a tool for exploring fun WWII counterfactuals and "what ifs" after all.

[michaelbaldur]

just read though the Italian fighter2 write ups..

and both the c205v and the re2005 is called the best fighter.

this is just a minor issue.

[Jimm]

ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur


just read though the Italian fighter2 write ups..

and both the c205v and the re2005 is called the best fighter.

this is just a minor issue.

The same has also been written of the G55 Centauro. (although not in the writeups)
The trouble is none of these models was produced in significant numbers so it is difficult to have an definitive view based on actual historical comparison.

The inclusion of the word "possibly" would help resolve in both cases.

[LeeChard]

Years ago I used to get a magazine called 'Air Enthusiast'. It had a monthly article called 'View from the cockpit' by Capt Eric Brown. He had a high opinion of the c205 and the re2005 if I remember correctly. and viewed the c205 as superior to the BF109G. But as Jimm points out, not enough combat results and a lack of first rate pilots makes it a challenge for the game designers to estimate what was possible.

[Extraneous]

[:D] I was bored again so I did some more research just for the fun of it. [:D]

Bing translator was used to translate the entire url when necessary

2nd World War-Italian Army (2ª GUERRA MONDIALE - REGIO ESERCITO)

The Royal Army to 10 June 1940 (IL REGIO ESERCITO AL 10 GIUGNO 1940)

COLLECTION OF ITALIAN MILITARY RECORDS, 1935-1943

Field and Territorial Commands
The Italian Army was divided into field units (unita di Campagna) devoted primarily to military operations under the direct control of the Chief of the Army Staff and his staff at field headquarters. All other matters were entrusted to the Under Secretary of War (usually a high-ranking army officer) and the Assistant Chief of Staff for Territorial Defense who controlled the territorial units (enti territoriali).

Regional Organization
Army corps (Corpo d'Armata) areas were responsible in peacetime for all troops, services, headquarters, and other military establishments within the corps area. They were numbered concurrently with the corps whose headquarters and components they contained in peacetime.

At the outbreak of the war there were 16 Army corps areas: I Corps (Turin), II Corps (Alessandria), III Corps (Milan), IV Corps (Bolzano), V Corps (Trieste), VI Corps (Bologna), VII Corps (Florence), VIII Corps (Rome), IX Corps (Bari), X Corps (Naples), XI Corps (Udine), XII Corps (Palermo), XIII Corps (Cagliari), XIV Corps (Treviso), XV Corps (Genoa), and XVI Corps (Messina).

There were four additional corps headquarters that did not have a corresponding territorial defense command. These were to control the training and organization of specialized units: Armored Corps (at Mantua), Alpine Corps (at Trento), Cavalry (Celere) Corps (at Padua), and Semi-motorized Corps (at Cremona).

After the outbreak of World War II a number of additional corps were added among the following for which there are records:
XVIII, headquartered in Split, Yugoslavia;
XIX, headquartered in Santa Maria Capua Vetere;
XX and XXI, which operated in Tripolitania until forced back into Tunisia and destroyed in May 1943;
XXIII, headquartered in Trieste,
XXIV, headquartered in Udine;
XXX, headquartered in Sousse, Tunisia, and destroyed in Tunisia in May 1943; and
XXXV, headquartered in Bolzano.

At the beginning of the war on June 10, 1940 the headquarters of the corps were stationed within definite areas which were also designated Territorial Defense Commands (Comando di Difesa Territoriale) that were divided into 28 military zones commanded by General Ubaldo Soddu.

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Torino (Torino)
1^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Torino)
4^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Novara)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Alessandria (Alessandria)
2^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Alessandria)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Genova (Genova)
14^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Genova)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Milano (Milano)
3^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Milano)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Verona (Verona)
5^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Verona)
7^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Trento)
XIII Settore di Copertura (Merano)
XIV Settore di Copertura (Bressanone)
XV Settore di Copertura (Brunico)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Treviso (Treviso)
28^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Padova)
XVII Settore di Copertura (Pontebba)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Udine (Udine)
12^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Udine)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Trieste (Trieste)
10^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Trieste)
11^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Pola)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Bologna (Bologna)
15^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Piacenza)
8^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Bologna)
9^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Ravenna)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Firenze (Firenze)
13^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Firenze)
17^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Livorno)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di (Roma)
16^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Roma)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Bari (Bari)
24^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Ancona)
18^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Perugia)
23^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Chieti)
22^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Bari)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Napoli (Napoli)
19^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Napoli)
20^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Salerno)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Palermo (Palermo)
21^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Catanzaro)
25^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Palermo)
26^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Messina)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Cagliari (Cagliari)
27^ Zona Militare Territoriale (Cagliari)

Comando Difesa Territoriale di Tirana, Albania

These were in turn subdivided into 106 military districts (Distretti Militari), plus one at Rhodes, four in Libya, six in Italian East Africa, and detached sections at Livorno, Zara, and Tolmezzo.


Territorial Defense Army (General Ubaldo Soddu, Rome) ((ARMATA per la DIFESA TERRITORIALE (Gen. Ubaldo Soddu, Roma))


The 16th Military Territorial Area (16^ Zona Militare Territoriale) (Rome) was assigned with the defense of Rome and consisted of.
Territorial Legion Carabinieri Reali "Roma" (Rome)
Territorial Legion Carabinieri Reali "Lazio" (Rome)
Legion Students Carabinieri Reali (Rome)
Military School (Rome)
Graduate Commissary school (Rome)
Military Schools Central Command (Civitavecchia)
Central School of infantry (Civitavecchia)
Rapid Troop middle school (Civitavecchia)
Central School of artillery (Civitavecchia)
Central School of engineers (Civitavecchia)
Artillery shooting school (Nettuno)
Forestry Militia School (Cittaducale)
Depot 21st Infantry Division "Grenadiers of Sardinia" (Rome)
Depot 52nd Infantry Division "Torino" (Civitavecchia)
9th Railway Militia Legion (Rome)
3rd Group Road Militia Departments (Rome)
CDXCVIII Black Shirts Mobile Territorial Cohort (Grosseto)
DXV Cohort Territorial Mobile Black Shirts (Viterbo)
DXVII Territorial Mobile Black Shirts Cohort (Civitavecchia)
DXVIII Territorial Mobile Black Shirts Cohort (Velletri)
Black Shirts Territorial Cohort DXIX (Frosinone)
DXX Cohort Territorial Mobile Black Shirts (Rome)
DXXI Territorial Mobile black shirts Cohort (Littoria, now Latina)
CCCXII Black Shirts Territorial Cohort (Rome)
CCCXIV Black Shirts Territorial Cohort (Tivoli)
CCCXVI Black Shirts Territorial Cohort (Rieti)
3rd Autonomous Militia Cohort forestry (Rome)
Autonomous Road Militia Department (Rome)
16th Militia Anti-aircraft Legion (2 batteries, Terni)
18th Militia Anti-aircraft Legion (24 batteries, Rome)


On July 25, 1943 the 3rd Reserve Army was re-designated the Command for the defense of Rome.

It consisted of:

Motorized Army corps (Corpo d'Armata Motocorazzato)
135th Armored Division "Ariete II" (General Raffaele Cadorna, Campagnano)
136th Armored Division "Centauro II" (Formerly 136th Armored Division M a blackshirts division General Carlo Bald of Bergolo, Tivoli)
10th Motorized Division "Piave" (Gen. Ugo Tabellini, Rome)
21st Infantry Division "Grenadiers of Sardinia" (General Gioacchino Solinas, Rome)
18th Armored Infantry Regiment (September 9, 1943 as part of the Centauro II Division)
1st Motorized Artillery Regiment
1st Anti-aircraft group
11th Engineer Group


Rome Army Corps (General Alberto Barber, Rome) (Corpo d'Armata di Roma)
12th Division Infantry "Sassari" (General Francesco Baskets, Rome)
16th Military Zone (Rome)
4nd Tank crew Member Infantry Regiment
Real legion military Policemen "Rome"
Real legion military Policemen "Lazio"
Legion revenue Officer "Rome"
Column Police Africa Italian "Cheren" motorized

XVII Army corps (General Giovanni Zanghieri, Velletri) (XVII Corpo d'Armata)
220th Coastal Division (General Oreste Sant'Andrea, Santa Severa) (220^ Divisione Costiera)
XXXIV Coastal Brigade (in constitution, General Pasquale Ventrone, Ostia) (XXXIV Brigata Costiera)
221st Coastal Division (General Edoardo Minaja, Pontinia) (221^ Divisione Costiera)
103rd Motorized Infantry Division "Piacenza" (General Carlo Rossi, Velletri) (103^ Divisione Fanteria autotrasportabile "Piacenza")
7th Infantry Division "Lupi di Toscana" (arriving from Provence, General Ernesto Cappa, Ladispoli) (7^ Divisione Fanteria)
13th Mountain Infantry Division "Re" (traveling from Slovenia, General Ottaviano Traniello, Monterotondo) (13^ Divisione Fanteria da montagna "Re")
23rd Artillery Group (23° Raggruppamento Artiglieria di Corpo d'Armata)
10th Engineer Group (10° Raggruppamento Genio di Corpo d'Armata)

Commander-in-Chief South (Field Marshal Albert Kesselring, Frascati) non-divisional elements in Rome
XI Fliegerkorps (General Kurt Student)
2nd Fallschirmjäger Division (General Barenthin)
3rd Panzer Grenadier Division (General Fritz Graeser, Viterbo)

[Extraneous]

deleted

[Shannon V. OKeets]

Here are some of the writeups that Adam sent me today.

[Extraneous]

Just a footnote: The Japanese never built MECH units they built armored and infantry divisions. The availability dates for the MECH coincide with the actual availability dates for the armored divisions or Sensha Sidan. That is why the MECH units are described as Armored units.

Just in case you wondered.

[warspite1]

The last of the French Capital ships has now been done:

[4895 Strasbourg - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 112,500 shp
.B Top Speed: 29.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 13-inch (330mm), 16 x 5.1-inch (130mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 35,500 tons
.B Thickest armour: 9.75-inch (belt)
.P The Dunkerques were a class of two, fast, capital ships that were built
for the Marine Nationale (MN) between 1932 and 1938. They are generally classed
as fast battleships, although their design had much in common with the
battlecruiser concept, and indeed are considered as such by some.
.P Although the Italian Navy was the main focus of French naval concern between
the wars, the MN could not afford to ignore the re-arming of the Kriegsmarine,
and in particular, the three pocket-battleships of the Deutschland-class. The
first of this latter class had entered service in 1933, and it was in response to
the Deutschlands that the Dunkerques were built.
.P The German ships were built as commerce raiders that were "faster than any
more powerful ship, and more powerful than any faster ship". However, the
Dunkerques were designed to be faster, more powerful and better armoured than the
German ships, and they achieved all three targets.
.P Although the comparison with the Deutschlands was favourable, the Dunkerques
were, in all but speed, undoubtedly at a disadvantage when compared to the
contemporary battleship classes, and their speed would be beaten by the newer
battleships laid down during the late thirties.
.P The Dunkerques main armament was fitted in two quadruple turrets, both fitted
forward in a bid to save weight. The guns were sited slightly further apart than
was traditionally the case, in order to try and avoid one lucky hit disabling
both turrets. Their secondary armament was provided by sixteen 5.1-inch guns
fitted in three quadruple and two twin turrets. Close-range anti-aircraft (AA)
weaponry came in the form of eight 37mm and thirty-two 13.2mm guns. A catapult
was fitted aft, and these ships could operate up to two aircraft.
.P Armour protection was light; certainly if these ships are to be considered
battleships. Their armour belt, designed to withstand the 11-inch shells of the
Deutschlands, ranged from 9.75-inches at it thickest, reducing to 5.75-inches,
while horizontal armour was 5-inches at its thickest.
.P Their designed speed of 29.5 knots was comfortable exceeded in trials and they
remained amongst the fastest capital ships in the world at the outbreak of World
War II.
.P The two ships of the class were named after French cities, Dunkerque being a
port in northern France, and Strasbourg a city in eastern France. The choice of
these names is interesting and is likely to have been driven by anti-German
sentiment between the wars; Dunkerque was where the German offensive in 1914
stalled, and the province of Alsace (of which Strasbourg is the capital) was
handed back to France at the end of World War I, having been taken by the Germans
after the war of 1870.
.P Strasbourg was commissioned into the MN in September 1938. At the start of the
Second World War, she was based at the port of Brest, part of the 1st Division de
ligne along with her sister Dunkerque.
.P Shortly after the outbreak of war in September 1939, the British and French
put into operation their plan for the defence of the vital trade routes around
the globe. The MN would be responsible for the sea area between the Gulf of
Guinea, off West Africa, and the English Channel. In order to counter the threat
from German surface raiders, the MN formed the Force de Raid (for the make-up of
this force please see Dunkerque) under the command of amiral Marcel-Bruno
Gensoul.
.P At the beginning of October, the British Royal Navy and the MN formed a number
of hunting groups in order to try and track down German surface raiders known to
be at large in the North and South Atlantic. Gensoul's fleet was split up and
Strasbourg was sent to Dakar as part of the newly formed Force X along with the
cruisers Algérie and Dupleix; the 10th Division of Contre-torpilleurs and the
British aircraft carrier HMS Hermes.
.P Strasbourg remained with Force X until the end of November, when she was
ordered back to France. From then until early 1940, Strasbourg had something of a
quiet life, but this was not to last for long. In the spring, the Allies were
faced with the potential threat of Italy joining the Axis and the actual German
invasion of Norway. In April, the Force de Raid was ordered to the Mediterranean,
then quickly ordered back to France to assist operations off Norway, but then
sent back to the Mediterranean again.
.P The threat from Italy duly materialised on the 10th June 1940 when Benito
Mussolini decided to declare war on the British and French. By this time the
French fleet, based at Mers-el-Kebir, Algeria, was brought up to full strength
and contained the following ships:
.P 1st Squadron - 1st Division de ligne: Dunkerque and Strasbourg; 3rd Division
de croiseurs (DC): Marseillaise, Jean de Vienne and La Galissonnière; 4th DC:
Georgues Leygues, Montcalm and Gloire; 6th Division de contre-torpilleurs (DCT):
Mogador and Volta; 8th DCT: L'Indomptable and Le Malin; 10th DCT: Le Fantasque,
L'Audacieux and Le Terrible.
.P 2nd Squadron - 2nd Division de ligne, containing the old battleships Bretagne
and Provence and the 4th DCT consisting of Tigre, Panthère and Lynx.
.P This French fleet made one sortie a couple of days later when an erroneous
report was received that German naval units were trying to force the Straits of
Gibraltar with a view to meeting up with their Italian allies.
.P Strasbourg returned to port with the rest of the fleet and awaited her next
operational order. Sadly, in the course of the next few weeks the Allied armies
in Belgium and northeast France were effectively destroyed by the German army and
the collapse and surrender of France followed soon after.
.P An armistice was concluded with the Germans and France and her empire were
split into two; a German-occupied zone that covered northern and western France,
and a nominally independent country, known as Vichy France, that administered
itself and its large overseas empire. This arrangement caused consternation in
the United Kingdom as it was feared that the French Fleet was vulnerable to
seizure by the Germans.
.P At the start of July the British therefore carried out their plan to seize the
French Fleet in order to ensure that its ships did not fall into German hands
(see Bretagne, Paris and Submarine Counter 4937). At Mers-El-Kebir a numbers of
options were delivered to amiral Gensoul. All options were ultimately rejected,
and a Royal Navy task force, that was waiting outside the port, was ordered to
open fire. Strasbourg was able to escape the carnage that followed with fairly
minor damage and she was able to reach open water, hidden by the fire and smoke
of battle. By a seeming miracle she also survived the minefield laid by the
British outside the port.
.P Strasbourg, together with four contre-torpilleurs and three torpedo boats,
survived a further attack by Royal Navy Swordfish aircraft and were able to make
it safely to Toulon.
.P Back in France, Strasbourg was quickly repaired and became the flagship of
amiral Gensoul who, having also survived the attack on Mers-El-Kebir, was flown
back to France. With the Vichy French no longer having control of their Atlantic
and Channel coasts, on the 25th September 1940 the main French fleet was named
the Forces de Haute Mer (FHM) or the High Seas Force, and placed under the
control of amiral Jean de Laborde (see Algérie for the composition of this
force).
.P From then until November 1942, when she met her end, Strasbourg led an
unremarkable existence, consisting of training sorties, refits and the odd
upgrade to her equipment.
.P Following the armistice with Germany, the French had always maintained that
the ships of the French navy would not be allowed to fall into the hands of the
Germans. That resolve was tested in the early hours of the 27th November 1942. As
a result of the Allied landings in North Africa at the beginning of November, the
Germans decided to occupy Vichy France. A subsidiary operation was also planned
in order to seize the French fleet in Toulon - Operation Lila.
.P Troops from the German 7th Panzer Division and supporting units, that had been
stationed outside the port, were given the order to seize as many vessels as
possible, but the French made good on their promise. At that time, the French
naval units in Toulon consisted of both ships of the FHM and those ships that
were manned by reduced crews, but all ships were rigged for scuttling in case the
Germans ever broke their word and tried to forcibly take control of the fleet.
.P Amiral de Laborde broadcast the order to scuttle as soon as it became clear
what was happening. There was little actual fighting as, in almost all cases, the
Germans were unable to reach the French ships before they begun sinking or became
engulfed in flame.
.P None of the major warships scuttled - Dunkerque, Strasbourg, Provence,
Dupleix, Foch, Colbert, Marseillaise or Algérie - put to sea again. Two of the
cruisers - Jean de Vienne and La Galissonnière - were refloated by the Italians
with the intention of incorporating them into the Regia Marina, but both were
still at Toulon when Italy exited the war in September 1943.
.P General Charles de Gaulle, leader of the Free French forces, was upset that
the ships had not sailed for North Africa to continue the fight against the Axis,
but at least they had not been allowed to fall into enemy hands.
.P As for Strasbourg, she was sunk at her moorings, her internal machinery and
weaponry destroyed by explosive charges. She was raised in July 1943 but was
beyond recovery. She was sunk in August 1944 during an Allied air raid, raised
again, and her hulk scrapped in 1956.

[brian brian]

Amiral Gensoul is introduced to the reader without his rank or his command ... is he in charge of the Dunkerque/Strasbourg 1st Line Division (?), or something else?

Use of the French is nice, but it gets a tad heavy at times for us lazy Americans who rarely bother to learn foreign languages. contre-torpilleurs = anti-torpedo? ships = destroyers ?

and there is one "amiral" rather than "Amiral"


but outstanding work as usual

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: brian brian

Amiral Gensoul is introduced to the reader without his rank or his command ... is he in charge of the Dunkerque/Strasbourg 1st Line Division (?), or something else?

Use of the French is nice, but it gets a tad heavy at times for us lazy Americans who rarely bother to learn foreign languages. contre-torpilleurs = anti-torpedo? ships = destroyers ?

and there is one "amiral" rather than "Amiral"


but outstanding work as usual

warspite1

Thanks brian brian - changes made. I have not changed the contre-torpilleur though because frankly I can't be assed to go through all the French write-ups at this stage [;)]

[Extraneous]

[4895 Strasbourg - by Robert Jenkins]
.B Engine(s) output: 112,500 shp
.B Top Speed: 29.5 knots
.B Main armament: 8 x 13-inch (330mm), 16 x 5.1-inch (130mm) guns
.B Displacement (full load): 35,500 tons
.B Thickest armour: 9.75-inch (belt)
.P The Dunkerques were a class of two, fast, capital ships that were built
for the Marine Nationale (MN) between 1932 and 1938. They are generally classed
as fast battleships, although their design had much in common with the
battlecruiser concept, and indeed are considered as such by some.
.P Although the Italian Navy was the main focus of French naval concern between
the wars, the MN could not afford to ignore the re-arming of the Kriegsmarine,
and in particular, the three pocket-battleships of the Deutschland-class. The
first of this latter class had entered service in 1933, and it was in response to
the Deutschlands that the Dunkerques were built.
.P The German ships were built as commerce raiders that were "faster than any
more powerful ship, and more powerful than any faster ship". However, the
Dunkerques were designed to be faster, more powerful and better armoured than the
German ships, and they achieved all three targets.
.P Although the comparison with the Deutschlands was favourable, the Dunkerques
were, in all but speed, undoubtedly at a disadvantage when compared to the
contemporary battleship classes, and their speed would be beaten by the newer
battleships laid down during the late thirties.
.P The Dunkerques main armament was fitted in two quadruple turrets, both fitted
forward in a bid to save weight. The guns were sited slightly further apart than
was traditionally the case, in order to try and avoid one lucky hit disabling
both turrets. Sixteen 5.1-inch guns fitted in three quadruple and two twin turrets
provided their secondary armament. Close-range anti-aircraft (AA) weaponry came in
the form of eight 37mm and thirty-two 13.2mm guns. A catapult was fitted aft, and
these ships could operate up to two aircraft.
.P Armour protection was light; certainly if these ships are to be considered
battleships. Their armour belt, designed to withstand the 11-inch shells of the
Deutschlands, ranged from 9.75-inches at it thickest, reducing to 5.75-inches,
while horizontal armour was 5-inches at its thickest.
.P Their designed speed of 29.5 knots was comfortable exceeded in trials and they
remained amongst the fastest capital ships in the world at the outbreak of World
War II.
.P The two ships of the class were named after French cities, Dunkerque being a
port in northern France, and Strasbourg a city in eastern France. The choice of
these names is interesting and is likely to have been driven by anti-German
sentiment between the wars; Dunkerque was where the German offensive in 1914
stalled, and the province of Alsace (of which Strasbourg is the capital) was
handed back to France at the end of World War I, having been taken by the Germans
after the war of 1870.
.P Strasbourg was commissioned into the MN in September 1938. At the start of the
Second World War, she was based at the port of Brest, part of the 1st Division de
ligne along with her sister Dunkerque.
.P Shortly after the outbreak of war in September 1939, the British and French
put into operation their plan for the defence of the vital trade routes around
the globe. The MN would be responsible for the sea area between the Gulf of
Guinea, off West Africa, and the English Channel. In order to counter the threat
from German surface raiders, the MN formed the Force de Raid (for the make-up of
this force please see Dunkerque) under the command of amiral Marcel-Bruno
Gensoul.
.P At the beginning of October, the British Royal Navy and the MN formed a number
of hunting groups in order to try and track down German surface raiders known to
be at large in the North and South Atlantic. Gensoul's fleet was split up and
Strasbourg was sent to Dakar as part of the newly formed Force X along with the
cruisers Algérie and Dupleix; the 10th Division of Contre-torpilleurs and the
British aircraft carrier HMS Hermes.
.P Strasbourg remained with Force X until the end of November, when she was
ordered back to France. From then until early 1940, Strasbourg had something of a
quiet life, but this was not to last for long. In the spring, the Allies were
faced with the potential threat of Italy joining the Axis and the actual German
invasion of Norway. In April, the Force de Raid was ordered to the Mediterranean,
then quickly ordered back to France to assist operations off Norway, but then
sent back to the Mediterranean again.
.P The threat from Italy duly materialised on the 10th June 1940 when Benito
Mussolini decided to declare war on the British and French. By this time the
French fleet, based at Mers-el-Kebir, Algeria, was brought up to full strength
and contained the following ships:
.P 1st Squadron - 1st Division de ligne: Dunkerque and Strasbourg; 3rd Division
de croiseurs (DC): Marseillaise, Jean de Vienne and La Galissonnière; 4th DC:
Georgues Leygues, Montcalm and Gloire; 6th Division de contre-torpilleurs (DCT):
Mogador and Volta; 8th DCT: L'Indomptable and Le Malin; 10th DCT: Le Fantasque,
L'Audacieux and Le Terrible.
.P 2nd Squadron - 2nd Division de ligne, containing the old battleships Bretagne
and Provence and the 4th DCT consisting of Tigre, Panthère and Lynx.
.P This French fleet made one sortie a couple of days later when an erroneous
report was received that German naval units were trying to force the Straits of
Gibraltar with a view to meeting up with their Italian allies.
.P Strasbourg returned to port with the rest of the fleet and awaited her next
operational order. Sadly, in the course of the next few weeks the German army
effectively destroyed the Allied armies in Belgium and northeast France the
collapse and surrender of France followed soon after.
.P An armistice was concluded with the Germans and France and her empire were
split into two; a German-occupied zone that covered northern and western France,
and a nominally independent country, known as Vichy France, that administered
itself and its large overseas empire. This arrangement caused consternation in
the United Kingdom, as it was feared that the French Fleet was vulnerable to
seizure by the Germans.
.P At the start of July the British therefore carried out their plan to seize the
French Fleet in order to ensure that its ships did not fall into German hands
(see Bretagne, Paris and Submarine Counter 4937). At Mers-El-Kebir a numbers of
options were delivered to amiral Gensoul. All options were ultimately rejected,
and a Royal Navy task force that was waiting outside the port, was ordered to
open fire. Strasbourg was able to escape the carnage that followed with fairly
minor damage and she was able to reach open water, hidden by the fire and smoke
of battle. By a seeming miracle she also survived the minefield laid by the
British outside the port.
.P Strasbourg, together with four contre-torpilleurs and three torpedo boats,
survived a further attack by Royal Navy Swordfish aircraft and were able to make
it safely to Toulon.
.P Back in France, Strasbourg was quickly repaired and became the flagship of
amiral Gensoul who, having also survived the attack on Mers-El-Kebir, was flown
back to France. With the Vichy French no longer having control of their Atlantic
and Channel coasts, on the 25th September 1940 the main French fleet was named
the Forces de Haute Mer (FHM) or the High Seas Force, and placed under the
control of amiral Jean de Laborde (see Algérie for the composition of this
force).
.P From then until November 1942, when she met her end, Strasbourg led an
unremarkable existence, consisting of training sorties, refits and the odd
upgrade to her equipment.
.P Following the armistice with Germany, the French had always maintained that
the ships of the French navy would not be allowed to fall into the hands of the
Germans. That resolve was tested in the early hours of the 27th November 1942. As
a result of the Allied landings in North Africa at the beginning of November, the
Germans decided to occupy Vichy France. A subsidiary operation was also planned
in order to seize the French fleet in Toulon - Operation Lila.
.P Troops from the German 7th Panzer Division and supporting units, that had been
stationed outside the port, were given the order to seize as many vessels as
possible, but the French made good on their promise. At that time, the French
naval units in Toulon consisted of both ships of the FHM and those ships that
were manned by reduced crews, but all ships were rigged for scuttling in case the
Germans ever broke their word and tried to forcibly take control of the fleet.
.P Amiral de Laborde broadcast the order to scuttle as soon as it became clear
what was happening. There was little actual fighting as, in almost all cases, the
Germans were unable to reach the French ships before they begun sinking or became
engulfed in flame.
.P None of the major warships scuttled - Dunkerque, Strasbourg, Provence,
Dupleix, Foch, Colbert, Marseillaise or Algérie - put to sea again. The Italians with the
intention of incorporating them into the Regia Marina refloated the Light cruisers -
Jean de Vienne and La Galissonnière. But both were still at Toulon when Italy exited
the war in September 1943.
.P General Charles de Gaulle, leader of the Free French forces, was upset that
the ships had not sailed for North Africa to continue the fight against the Axis,
but at least they had not been allowed to fall into enemy hands.
.P As for Strasbourg, she was sunk at her moorings, her internal machinery and
weaponry destroyed by explosive charges. She was raised in July 1943 but was
beyond recovery. She was sunk in August 1944 during an Allied air raid, raised
again, and her hulk scrapped in 1956.