Axis view of blizzard

[hugh04]

I have just entered the great 41 Blizzard in a recent game. I play as the axis, and this is only my second blizzard. As axis, opening a new turn was pretty awesome, as you got to see what damage you really did last turn and what new damage you can inflict in the current turn. Blizzard, of course, turns that around. The great soviets of mordor are now in control and general winter truly smashes your army.

I have gotten good advice about retreating and really, there is no choice. The real killer is being far from my supply heads. The small part of my line that has started near a railroad is in much better shape than those that are farther away. 10 hexes equals 30 movement points in blizzard, and that is way too much for decent axis supply. In many areas of the front, I must retreat more then 10 hexes just to get within decent supply distance of a railhead.

One question for the forums, will axis 1 cv infantry divisions recover abit once they get within better supply range? Only 8 attacks from the soviet during the first blizzard turn. Seems even with the doubling of cv, the soviet still has alot of 1 and 2 cv inf divisions in the front lines. Seems my best defense is the damage inflicted in the summer as defending now seems pretty hopeless. The only caveat is that the initial line of level 2/3 forts in front of moscow are pretty strong. Other then that, need a land buffer. March cannot come soon enough. BTW, we are playing random weather and I am hoping for some snowy payoff for the 2 mud turns sufferred during the summer campaign. Soviet OOB turn 25; 4.2mm and 4.0+mm losses.

vandev

[Seminole]

BTW, we are playing random weather and I am hoping for some snowy payoff for the 2 mud turns sufferred during the summer campaign.

Section 22.2 should contain an additional exception that states there
will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

[Ketza]

4 million Soviet casualties is above average. Your in good shape for 1942 as long as you do not have a disaster blizzard by losing a couple dozen German divisions.

[hugh04]

Seminole....I hope that was a joke. My read of the rules is that there is the possiblity of non-blizzard in the soviet zone in Decemeber and February. If I recall, the soviet major zone gets a +4 to the weather role. Jan is all blizzard but there can be other results in Dec and Feb. At least I hope so. The central and southern zone get a +2 and +1 on the weather role which gives a chance for non-blizzard weather in any month.

Ketza......hopefully it is hard to surround sprinting germans. There is a huge bug out from razan in the north almost to stalino in the south. Stalino is actually connected to the rail net so I am hoping to shelter in all those city hexes and try and fight alittle bit to maintain position here. But I am getting weaker and he is getting stronger so we will see. Atleast one of my mountain divisions has a 17 cv. Should be higher but the division is fatigued.

vandev

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: vandev

Seminole....I hope that was a joke. My read of the rules is that there is the possiblity of non-blizzard in the soviet zone in Decemeber and February. If I recall, the soviet major zone gets a +4 to the weather role. Jan is all blizzard but there can be other results in Dec and Feb. At least I hope so. The central and southern zone get a +2 and +1 on the weather role which gives a chance for non-blizzard weather in any month.

vandev

Its not a joke, well at leased in regards to Dec 41. The rules are clear.

v1.03 Beta 2 - January 21, 2011
There will be no snow or mud during December 1941 and January 1942 (only Blizzard).

v1.06.05 - March 20, 2012
There will be at most one mud turn per weather zone during turns from 01 December to 29 February (not 31 March as stated in the manual).

Hope it helps,

Rasmus

[hugh04]

Well, I can pray for snow in February then. Gotta get a better parka for the next few turns.

vandev

[Walloc]

Note the altered Snow CV modification rules then. Not that if u havent played with any thing else u will note a difference [:)]

v1.05.59 - January 31, 2012
During any Snow turns between December 1941 and April 1942 (inclusive), and any blizzard turns in March or April 1942, German attack CV factors are divided by 1.5. Any missed check (admin or combat skill) causes the attack CV to be further divided by 2. The displayed on counter attack CV will be divided by 1.5 during these turns.

[Ketza]

Break down those mountain divisions! They are your most reliable roadblocks even as regiments.

[hugh04]

Walloc are there anymore suprises(g). The reason I went for non random weather was a chance for unexpected fun in the 41 winter. Oh well, kinda of a disincentive to choose non random weather in the future. At least soviet cv's will not be buffed then.........right(g).

vandev

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: Ketza

4 million Soviet casualties is above average. Your in good shape for 1942 as long as you do not have a disaster blizzard by losing a couple dozen German divisions.

Means nothing vs some who knows how to exploit the current system I lost 50 divisions vs someone who lost 4 million.

There are still some amazing loop holes that SHC can drive tanks throw during blizzard.

More like Cav Corps.

Loophole =

[hugh04]

We are currently on the 4th blizzard turn and the last of december. All I can say is the soviet does not seem to have the christmas spirit. The moscow line is collasping under heavy pressure and the rest of the line is continuing its slow but steady retreat. Nothing surrounded, just absorbing 25+ attacks. Not too bad, but if the axis stopped retreating the number of attacks the soviet could launch would greatly increase. Therefore, the axis will not stop retreating as we really have no choice.

January is shaping up to be soviet guard creation month. Tula will fall. If Orel, Kursk and Kharkov stand it will be because they started the blizzard 10 to 15 hexes from the front lines. December has truly wreaked axis cv's, hope they start recovering at some point. Justing waiting for this to end.

vandev

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: vandev

Walloc are there anymore suprises(g). The reason I went for non random weather was a chance for unexpected fun in the 41 winter. Oh well, kinda of a disincentive to choose non random weather in the future. At least soviet cv's will not be buffed then.........right(g).

vandev

If i said no that would make be the bearer of good news....[;)]

No, thats about it but, if i was serious about learning the game i would read and understand the first winter rules. There are things u can do that migates some of the effects on the german side. Knowing how and when is valueble IMO.

About the snow modification well i was put in place of an effect that was seen previously named the march madness. Where because the shift in CV was so great that march 42 would be pure german heaven and usually they take back all they lost in blizzard which ppl thot was some what over the top.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[gargoil]

ORIGINAL: vandev

We are currently on the 4th blizzard turn and the last of december. All I can say is the soviet does not seem to have the christmas spirit. The moscow line is collasping under heavy pressure and the rest of the line is continuing its slow but steady retreat. Nothing surrounded, just absorbing 25+ attacks. Not too bad, but if the axis stopped retreating the number of attacks the soviet could launch would greatly increase. Therefore, the axis will not stop retreating as we really have no choice.

January is shaping up to be soviet guard creation month. Tula will fall. If Orel, Kursk and Kharkov stand it will be because they started the blizzard 10 to 15 hexes from the front lines. December has truly wreaked axis cv's, hope they start recovering at some point. Justing waiting for this to end.

vandev

As German vs Normal AI (only my 2nd game), I was a bit more cautious in how far and how overextended I let my advance get. My line at the end of Nov 41 starts with Leningrad having a 3 hex front and the rail cut to it. it then is a quite straight line directly to within 4 hexs of Moscow. Then more raged line that went to within 4 hexes of Stalino. and then pretty straight down to the coast. I had the bottleneck hexes into the Crimea.

Winter was not all that rough. I lost no more than 2 hexes deep anywhere (at least 60-70% of my line never lost any ground). It is now the first snow turns of early 42 and I have resumed some limited offensive operation. I have got to within 3 hexs of Moscow and 1 hex of Stalino. I will be making all out assaults for Leningrad, Moscow, Stalino, Tula, Rostov and Sevastipol come clear weather.

I am not cautious for the start of Barbarossa, but as the Soviets start to form better lines, and the winter nears, I form up and make a solid front instead of attempting to make last minute extended breakthroughs. My first playthru, over a year ago, I did capture Leningrad, Moscow, Sevastipol, Rostov and reached the outskirts of Stalingrad/into Caucuses. I played fairly similar this game, as I know there was a lot of patch changes, so I wanted to test the waters again.

[STEF78]

ORIGINAL: vandev

We are currently on the 4th blizzard turn and the last of december. All I can say is the soviet does not seem to have the christmas spirit. The moscow line is collasping under heavy pressure and the rest of the line is continuing its slow but steady retreat. Nothing surrounded, just absorbing 25+ attacks. Not too bad, but if the axis stopped retreating the number of attacks the soviet could launch would greatly increase. Therefore, the axis will not stop retreating as we really have no choice.

January is shaping up to be soviet guard creation month. Tula will fall. If Orel, Kursk and Kharkov stand it will be because they started the blizzard 10 to 15 hexes from the front lines. December has truly wreaked axis cv's, hope they start recovering at some point. Justing waiting for this to end.

vandev

In January, your CV will be in better shape. Hold on!

[hugh04]

Axis is at turn 5 of blizzard, the last week of december. Btw, why do dec and Jan have 5 weeks each, I would prefer 3(g). Shock Army has broken through the northeren part of my moscow line. Infantry divisions are being roughly handled out of there entrenchments. The far north is quiet and only place where there is not much pressure. Tula is being squeezed like a teenager's pimple and will be in soviet hands early in Jan. Falling back on Orel and Kursk, front here is chaotic and pesky armor brigades and some cav corps are starting to isolate some units. Turn started with 3 inf divisions isolated, one of them a mountain division. Probably all goners anyway as I should probably start retreating 2 hexes a turn rather then one. Stalino is standing tall and a fort belt is forming. Been using the 7 city hexes to rest units and have begun swapping out rested guys with some of my 1 cv divisions. While most of my panzers are in reserve, 3 corp have been in the front lines. Will probably withdraw these 3 but replace them with rested guys. The next 3 or 4 turns likely to be the worst (I hope).

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: vandev

Axis is at turn 5 of blizzard, the last week of december. Btw, why do dec and Jan have 5 weeks each, I would prefer 3(g). Shock Army has broken through the northeren part of my moscow line. Infantry divisions are being roughly handled out of there entrenchments. The far north is quiet and only place where there is not much pressure. Tula is being squeezed like a teenager's pimple and will be in soviet hands early in Jan. Falling back on Orel and Kursk, front here is chaotic and pesky armor brigades and some cav corps are starting to isolate some units. Turn started with 3 inf divisions isolated, one of them a mountain division. Probably all goners anyway as I should probably start retreating 2 hexes a turn rather then one. Stalino is standing tall and a fort belt is forming. Been using the 7 city hexes to rest units and have begun swapping out rested guys with some of my 1 cv divisions. While most of my panzers are in reserve, 3 corp have been in the front lines. Will probably withdraw these 3 but replace them with rested guys. The next 3 or 4 turns likely to be the worst (I hope).

Vs most poeple poor to above average January is not that bad and you can basicly hold in February.

The key as German is not to let units surrender.

IF you start lossing units in december, January is as bad as December. If you keep losing units in January then February is as bad as December also.

The problem is that the replasements go to the surrendered units that come back the following turn so none of the front line units get any replasments. This causes the December CV lvls to run into January then february. This causes a HUGE crash in infantry morale which makes the german army completely usless come June. It simply can't recover from the morale losses.

Job 1 is not to let any units get cut off in december. If you do that then you only need to retreat 1 hex per turn in jan and hold lines in February.

Sounds like your doing ok.

As a standard you should have 6 to 9 infantry divisions in citys and the same number of Mot divisions. Station them close to the front so they can be called up as needed. if your able to keep them under cover you will be able to have good spring offences.

[hugh04]

We are 2nd turn into January. Tula will fall this turn and the tank brigade rush has cost me some divisions. The first 3 german divisions surrendered in front of kursk. Will lose one more around tula. Lines are not too bad, but panzers have been fighting alot and more will need to be committed to stabilze the front. If I hoard panzers and infantry in the rear, this would mean a general retreat everywhere of many hexes. Deploying them has for the moment caused some areas to go static, as the soviet does not like attacking stacks with cv's in the 20 area. Where I have a fort line, soviet slows down. No fort line means axis pain and retreat. January has seen a nice increase in combat power and counter attack ability, hope february provides more. March cannot come soon enough.

vandev

[hugh04]

third axis turn in January and things are dicey. Was quite suprised to open the turn and find 4 rather then 1 infantry division isolated. May be possible to save one but my opponent was quite clever and timed his attacks and advances to make some of my units retreat toward him! Good strategy on his part, kinda wish germans would route in that situation but german troops just dont route if they have a valid retreat path. Tula and Kursk are gone or about to fall. Heavy pressure on my front between tula and orel.

Because I think the soviet went into the blizzard weak, I have stopped retreating in places were I had a reserve fort line and forced him to attack or go static. In order to have enough defensive cv's to make this a hard choice a large number of my reserves have been or will be committed. This is kinda working as there are no breakthroughs and soviet attack losses are high when he goes against the forts, but the cost is morale and fatigue in my panzers. My snow counterattack is being sacrificied to slow his blizzard attack and retain territory. I have infantry and armaments in the pool and if I can limit inf divisions isolated to 10 or less I will be happy.

At some point I hope the soviet starts worrying about defense and starts taking off the pressure. My good news is that his 3 stack infantry attack forces are cv's of 9 or less. What I have really noticed is that units really must be brought into reserve and on a rail line before refit makes much of an impact on cv. It is very hard to recover TOE on the front line, even if the unit is not being attacked. I can see how this can really hurt the axis later in the war.

vandev

[janh]

I think you are rather well, vandev. Much depends on the summer and autumn fighting whether you get behind or ahead of the loss suffered/losses inflicted curve, and whether the Soviet Winter offensive is brutal (likely followed by a summer seeing it grow beyond ~7M), "normal" (not compared to what we know it was, more in game terms), or "luke-warm" (basically the Barbarossa losses are pretty much crippling the Reds already).

ORIGINAL: vandev
Lines are not too bad, but panzers have been fighting alot and more will need to be committed to stabilze the front.

I'd to try to get the mobile formations into adjacent >=4 towns to reduce attrition and safe morale. You can employ the reserve mode, and perhaps even assign a number of them to Army level to increase their reserve employment "range". That way they won't suffer badly if employed in a lost fight, but can cause your opponent good head-aches with a lucky roll.

Some people even transfer some 10-20 of their best mobile formations (plus about as many of their highest morale infantry) back to Poland for a winter refit, knowing they'll have to give ground more readily and keep disengaging quicker than the pursuer follows. I consider this the best thing to do given the blizzard rules, and also given the hindsight that winterization ain't, but 42 with need for a good fist is. Of course this would never ever have been done historically, but in game terms it's probably just street-smart to save your best units for the next spring instead of letting them be worn down to hold some useless hexes you'll take back anyway much easier with intact offensive capability.

A good scenario to test blizzard rules and tactics is actually the small "Demyansk" scenario -- short but tough. Unfortunately even against Soviet AI the blizzard rules are so severely overdone it seems that the Demyansk pocket never holds more than 1, at most two turns at "NORMAL". To somewhat "recreate" the pocket holding out until spring relieve, you do have to tune down the "morale" difficulty setting to 50 for the Soviet (logistics 50% for both sides). Trying almost a dozen times, this gives about a 80-90% chance that the pocket actually survives and recreates the swaying of the front line. 50% of course means negating the blizzard penalty (just as there should be none, just logistics failing...). It kind of shows where the combination of "isolation rule" and "blizzard rule" twists the game away from what it ought to be. Interestingly, even if you units are not able to defend successfully but retreat when attacked, you can still counterattack quite successfully. Unfortunately this game favors the offensive/phasing player, just as plenty other have observed already.

Since there is no way to fine tune the blizzard penalties and logistics factors with the editor, I have started to play the GC with two sets of difficulty settings in order to retain a challenging AI, but also keep more in line with historical capabilities: morale 119% for AI except Soviet AI during 12/41-02/42, then 40%. Logistics both sides to 50%. That seems to put the breaks on my own progress, and make it seem more in line, plus it doesn't turn the Reds into supermen in blizzard as Pelton likes to call them. That way you can really fight it out without getting whole corps encircled and surrendered.

[hugh04]

January is almost over. The last turn is in my inbox and this is certainly a month I can't wait to see end. Last turn we initiated a magnificent winter offensive to save one of our four isolated infantry divisions. 2 stacks (weak stacks with a 1 cv) of soviets were retreated. The infantry division I was trying to save then advanced through a sea of soviets to end its turn next to two panzer divisions. The mad russian then proceeded to launch over 15 attacks against those panzers divisions and forcing a retreat when they ran out of ammunition. The infantry division that was so close to salvation was then retreated back toward the soviet lines. Sadly, this turn they surrendered. 7 total infantry divisions have been lost so far.

The soviet also launched a good assualt against a level 2 fort in the city right next to stalino. My stalino front has been static though alot of blood has been shed pushing axis units out of there fort line. The soviet has finally reached Kharkov but is unlikely to be able to take the fortified line that is there. With Kursk and Tula taken, Orel is now under threat. This is where the soviet is putting the most pressure, but we mostly have a good line. If axis cv's recover a bit in february we may hold. Axis armor is almost totally committed to the front lines. This has stabilized alot of the front, but armor cv's and morale have taken a beating. Thank god alot of german infantry divisions come in as reiforcements in the first 2 turns of february. Also, random weather may give the axis a turn of snow to play with which should give the soviet pause.

Soviet OOB has increased from 4.1mm at beginning of blizzard to 4.7 now (4.5 in units). Total losses are 4.3 mm, up from 4.0 at the beginning of december.