ALLIED side MP AAR Spearhead v Reich

[Phoenix100]

The position just as darkness begins to fall in the 'southern sector' around Manhay.



1. Parker has been given the order (a Delay order, in fact) to Move back. He's done a fantastic job and I suspect the 3 pronged assault against him during the entire afternoon will have cost the enemy too. I give him the order now expecting, with it being a 'delay' order and with orders delay, plus the inherent difficulty of withdrawing under fire, that it will be well after dark before he really starts to move. Luckily the enemy has not managed to cut off his reteat route.
2. I order Brewster back to the same position, though have low expectation that he will make it.
3. Kane has already been ordered (bit earlier than planned) back to Grandmenil and is on the way. I've shifted him earlier because it looks like the Axis has actually abandoned Grandmenil (not sure why - maybe the intel showing his two units west of Gradmenil is just the tip of a very large iceberg trying to move into Grandmenil to replace the units he appear to have used to assault Manhay, I think - but I will try anyway to do just what he did last night - sneak into Grandmenil). Kane has done an outstanding job holding a very large force, I suspect (though I assume they weren't top class troops, but Volksgrenadiers instead).
4. First elements of 2-424 are arriving to re-take Grandmenil.
5. Plans for the 48 Armoured INf to occupy the line north of Manhay have been scuppered by a strong attack/probe at my supply route a bit further north (see next pic) - so I've had to order the 48 back up there.

[Phoenix100]

The 'northern sector' - above Manhay.



1. VERY worrying. Following the destruction, in effect, of 40 Tank, the enemy seems to be piling armour into this area. My back door (indicated by arrow) is wide open.
2. I decide - due to this and the probes further sth on the same supply route - to try to do without this road for supply, so order the CCA7 HQ and base to the west (not through the trees, but by roads just off the pic!). I'm hoping the AI will route the supply from the SEP at the top of this road along the same roads the base will now use to get further west, thus avoiding his blocks. There is not actually much I can do to deal with the Axis force at 1 at the moment. I have nothing I can use against it. The remnants of 40 Tank will have to defend the route nth, but I fear he will try to get right across the top of the map during the night, and there is little to stop him if he does. I do suspect that my units further sth might have severed his supply to the units at 1, earlier on, so maybe that will deter him. Fingers crossed.
3. 48 Arm have had to be ordered back to deal with his new attack here. I desperately need to rest 48 Arm though before launching anything. they are so exhausted I worry an attack would resut in a mass surrender...
4. 2-424 is headed fro Grandmenil.

[Phoenix100]

The next update I have (and will post tomorrow, hopefully), is from the morning of day 3.

What's my analysis as night falls day 2?

Swamped. No room to do anything but plug holes and hold desperately. His attacks on the western supply road have wrecked my plans to hold the Grandmenil-Manhay-Vaux Chavanne corner. I'm now slowly retreating everywhere, I think.

BUT, hard to believe, but it's only day 2 of a 14 day scenario! Plenty time to think and change tactics. I get some significant reinforcements tomorrow, but not enough to change the desperation. I'm hoping to use them to deal with his armour attacking the north-west supply road. After that I get some arty day 4, i think, then nothing until day 7. then, slowly, from then through to day 10, the materiel starts arriving. But it's a long gap to wait after tomorrow - 4 days loom without significant reinforcements. I can only hope his pool is running dry....

[Phoenix100]

Pic from google earth of the site of the destruction of 40 Tank. At least 20 Shermans left burning.

[BletchleyGeek]

Problem is they've got no bloody ammo. None of them. the only one with ammo left is the reserve company and - as per comments in other threads about this - it is not brought into play at all. What's it there for? What is the meaning of 'reserve' if it doesn't now get involved instead of the other companies, I wonder. And why are those 3 companies pressing an assault on German armour when they have no ammo? The limits of the AI, methinks. I will be more cautious in future.

That does indeed sound like a bug to me. When you say they didn't have any ammo, you mean ammo for their main gun right?

[Phoenix100]

deleted

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: phoenix

That's right. No AP or HE for the main gun. They attacked Panzer IVs with machine guns. Is it a bug? Or a feature we don't have yet? There's been threads about it (ammo use) recently - about not swapping out units with depleted ammo in an attack. I think Dave said it didn't happen. Not sure, though. I should have watched more closely. I only noticed the ammo prob when it was all over and I looked at the save to do the AAR.

This does warrant a closer look.

On a less serious note, those tankers had balls of steel [:)]

[Phoenix100]

Oh dear. Just checked again. They weren't out of ammo. The only ones out of ammo were the destroyed tanks - the 105mm guns. My mistake. I'll correct the posts. Though that makes their demise even more puzzling. 30 Shermans against 9 Panzer IV and 6 Stugs and I lose over 20 Shermans? It's not fair.

they were exhausted, of course.

[wodin]

Pics fine now thanks mate..great AAR.

[Phoenix100]

Cheers Jason.

[Agema]

It's a bit late to say this, but I think you really needed to use - and by use, I mean probably sacrifice - some of your start units delaying him at key blocking points. Defending is usually advantageous, and you've cheaply abandoned a vast amount of ground that will probably prove expensive to recover when you have the power to do so (as your Shermans discovered), because he'll have the advantage of defence. In the long run, a few Stuarts and odd units are cheap at the price.

[wodin]

There was\is a great scenario in COTA that teaches using the delay move and the withdraw move...you slowly withdrew your units using the delay move setting waypoints..I'm sure at some point withdraw move was used aswell. I have a feeling not many people use this command (delay) as they never played this particular COTA scenario. The command is extremely useful and most likely very under used.

ORIGINAL: Agema

It's a bit late to say this, but I think you really needed to use - and by use, I mean probably sacrifice - some of your start units delaying him at key blocking points. Defending is usually advantageous, and you've cheaply abandoned a vast amount of ground that will probably prove expensive to recover when you have the power to do so (as your Shermans discovered), because he'll have the advantage of defence. In the long run, a few Stuarts and odd units are cheap at the price.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: phoenix

Oh dear. Just checked again. They weren't out of ammo. The only ones out of ammo were the destroyed tanks - the 105mm guns. My mistake.

That's allright, mate [:)]

ORIGINAL: phoenix
I'll correct the posts. Though that makes their demise even more puzzling. 30 Shermans against 9 Panzer IV and 6 Stugs and I lose over 20 Shermans? It's not fair.

What were his losses? Any hint of that? FOW in Command Ops is quite unforgiving, and it's very difficult to assess the damage you're doing to enemy units.

ORIGINAL: phoenix
they were exhausted, of course.

Well, that can make quite a difference, by making the probability of bad outcomes to be higher.

In any case, thank you for been so attentive to detail. I think it's sort of an empirical law that MP games AAR's are an unvaluable source of feedback. Basically because players, when facing a human, become way more attentive to details.

Besides being really interesting to watch, of course [:)]

[Phoenix100]

Thanks Bletch. There were no losses shown for the Axis, which doesn't mean there weren't any, sure. I would have thought it made a difference that mine were required to assault when demoralised, tired and a shambles. BUt I didn't expect that much difference. I wonder if Yakstock posted anything about this battle? (You would know, I don't.) Next time we play I'll ask what his losses were, if any.

You certianly attend more when playing a human (well, I do, at any rate), as it seems to 'mean' more, what happens.

Thanks for the (late) suggestions, Agema. Not sure I agree, but, I am also playing this sceanario against Sharper at the moment (no AAR plans), where I have experimented with keeping holding units in place. No real difference to report, save the expected loss of those units. It would be worth it, I agree, if you could guarantee that it would actually hold him up substantially, or if you had enough reinforcements in the pipeline soon enough to stage a relief (to keep the ground, even if you're not worried about the units). But as Axis you would be mad (surely?) not to flank these outpost units instead of tackling head on? And then, in a 14 day scenario, you really can afford to just let them starve uselessly, then attack when they're really very weak, with very few of your own units. For me, playing Axis, the ground at Baraque and sth of Oster has been very much secondary to Manhay and Grandmenil, and I've always just gone round the outposts there. (I've only ever played Axis against the AI, which is, of course, easier). I certainly don't think that keeping holding units in place (and sacrificing them) is a panacea in this classic situation where you have a force much weaker than the enemy, a lot of ground to cover, rich possibilities for movement, and hence vulnerable supply lines. Not saying I've got it right, any of it, but there is certainly more than one way to skin a cat. Holding units at Baraque would not have prevented his armour from marching up the east, bothering my supply lines and getting into a nice defensive postion from which my Shermans are finding it hard to oust him - he was already committed to that course (and I could see it clearly happening) and half way up there before my first orders even got through to my units. Remember he has no orders delay at the beginning, whilst I do. In the game I'm playing against Sharper he has been even more aggressive and has cut my main supply route within the first hour and a half. It's at least an hour before my units start acting on my first orders (about 45 mins before they even get them), so with all that space up the east, there's not much I can do to prevent movement up there.

I think if I've made errors it's in being too cautious with putting together units - as Bletch has suggested - that could disrupt his plans, threaten his supply routes etc, at a price to me. But I'm still trying to work out how that could have been done, safely (in terms of not getting overrun - it's possible to lose this battle, I think, as Axis, right at the beginning, within 6 or so days, by letting the Axis get right behind you, so you have no supply - this was, after all, an Axis speciality - so that as the reinforcements come through you can only fight for the ground around your SEPs with everythign else lost, because there is so much space and the Axis has such an advantage at the beginning)

I used a 'delay' retreat, Wodin, a little later, as you may have seen. It worked, but it doesn't always, especially if you really wish to control the speed of withdrawal. Then a Move or Withdraw has in my experience been the fastest to get acted upon.

[wodin]

Mr P..the COTA scenario had the Germans funneling down two paths with a mountain on each side of the paths, one path on the right of the map the other on the left..your small force had to delay them slowly, timing the delay and withdrawals with the Objectives lighting up or turning off. It's one of those scenarios that stick in your head years after playing (it was perfectly made, right size, right objectives and timings in place, right pacing). It really taught me about the beauty of those commands and when and to do them to be most effective, and they where effective aswell. Sadly since then I haven't barely used those commands and I should make far more use of them. They where introduced in COTA and the scenario was used to teach you how to use them set in Greece I believe. When the COTA expansion comes out I will; certainly play that scenario again.

Anyway sorry for taking you off topic.

[Phoenix100]

Day 3 12.28



Apologies for unprofessional graphics.

1.TF Mc George has arrived, not quite as knackered as the last batch of reinforcements, but I've already ordered them against his armour blocking my road south here (marked 1) and they have already been repulsed. The intel doesn't show much. I thought TF Mcgeorge - with its armour - would deal with this issue, but now I'm having to consider that the intel shows only the tip of the iceberg and there's a lot more enemy armour here than I thought. I am considering moving TF McGeorge back to a blocking position at the red circle marked 'D', where they will have the benefit of being in defence. I don't think they are going to be able to evict his armour and I'm worried they will suffer the same fate as 40 Tank and be crushed, leaving his armour free to roam into my base and supply area.
2. 48 Arm Inf has been able to rest a bit. I am debating whether to hold it in a blocking position here (marked 2) or withdraw it to the crossroads marked 'C'. There haven't been any attacks here for a few hours. I suspect he's been blocked and so gone round the back up to the more northern poistion. Be nice to be able to send up a spotter plane to find out.
3. Parker's men have got out of Manhay and are trashed. They need pulling out copmpletely, to rest. I am considering pulling them also back to position 'C'. But after darkness.
4. I am holding Grandmenil with 2 Bns, but worried about him coming through the previously mentioned gaps (yellow arrows). I originally sent TF Kane to block the most eastern gap, but then his forces actually started to appear north-west of Grandmenil, so have sent them there now. I want them to block the enemy there so I can actually use the big red road after nightfall, because I have no intention of making a stand in Grandmenil when he is clearly massing forces at 4a for a big night attack. I will withdraw after darkness to the position marked 'B' in red.
5. I forgot until this morning that Briscol is an exit for the Axis. I hope he does exit some troops. The loss of manpower would be more helpful than the points he'll get. I have a small blocking force there which I will withdraw to position 'A' in red, and reinforce with some other forces drawn from the Grandmenil garrison.
6. He's probing my supply and higher HQ area (at 6), and I will send some forces down to repell him. I'm hoping, again, that the intel doesn't just show the tip of a large attacking force.
7. These 2 units blocking here (position 7) are not strong enough to hold him if he really throws something at them, and I think they should go back to crossroads 'C' as well.

So - what's uppermost in my mind? This: I have some arty reinforcements coming in tomorrow (day 4) then nothing (almost) until day 7!!! In other words, I have to somehow, somewhere, hold him with just the forces on the map. I think this will be very hard. My present thinking is to pull back at the end of day 3 to the positions marked in red and form a new 'line' on that basis, concentrating as much as I can. I'm looking for a position I can defend and not be cut-off in. Then i somehow have to hang in there until day 7, when reinforcements start to arrive.

To be honest I think I have used the right tactics here, thus far. That's what I think now. Because he is very strong indeed in these first seven days (playing this scenario against the AI gives no idea of how strong he is, because the AI is very conservative and cautious, I've found, compared to a human and doesn't use the forces available so aggressively). I'm convinced that if I had (a) tried to block him in more advanced positions, or delay him more there, (b) separated off choice parts of my meagre forces and tried to get behind him, to disrupt his plans, then I would have ended up with all those forces cut off and dead. The first 7 days of this, for the Allies, are definitely a desperate defensive battle. And with him being so strong I don't think I can spare any manpower. Those who might think that this has been too cautious a game plan should try this scenario, as Allies, against a decent human player, I think, to show me what exactly they mean (post an AAR showing me).

There. I must be feeling sensitive. I blame the loss of 40 Tank. That was a blow.

All that said, if anyone reading this (if there's anyone reading this!!) wants to seriously suggest an alternative strategy to running and trying to find good, defensive ground which I might hold without being cut-off, then please - all suggestions VERY welcome. But remember - it's now going to be 4 days with no reinforcements, essentially.

[dazkaz15]

Just want to let you know I am following, and very much enjoying your AAR Phoenix.

[Phoenix100]

Very kind, Daz. Cheers.

[BletchleyGeek]

I've found Paint.NET to be a surprisingly simple yet feature rich graphics application, most useful to illustrate AAR's. You can get it here: http://www.getpaint.net

Regarding the tactics discussions.

If you're referring to my comments, don't take them too much to heart [:)] I do see that you've adjusted your tactics already, yet I can't say that's because the influence of any of Agema's or mine own comments.

I'd love to take the gauntlet you've thrown, but helping Dave is consuming 110% of my spare time (and on top of that, the time difference between us is just crazy). One thing I can suggest, though, is that when the game is over and you can access Yakstock's AAR, to play the game in hotseat mode and mimic his moves with the Germans.

Actually, that would be a good "exercise" for anybody reading both AAR's.

Regarding the present situation. Your plan about falling back and regrouping seems sound to me. Just make sure you have some strength blocking approaches and a reserve. This might prove very difficult.

Another tactical tip which you might find very useful regarding the use of artillery assets in the defense. You can assign and detach artillery assets to forces with defense orders without causing replanning if you issue a Defend task to an already defending force, while selecting as well artillery assets and selecting the "In Situ" formation. Detaching non-line units from a Defend task shouldn't cause a replan (and even if you detach line units, the effects of replanning while on the defense aren't too bad, as a replan implies your forces will be remaining in place for a while).

[Phoenix100]

Thanks B-G. And I was niether reacting nor challenging you, honest! All your comments have been most useful and most welcome.

I'm really enjoying the game, but I am finding it amazing how different the experience is to playing the AI at this scenario. As I've said before, the AI is more cautious and you can get mislead into thinking that the Axis is therefore not quite the force it is when handled by a capable human.

Hope you can find a human opponent over there when you have more time, as it really is great fun playing humans, a very different thing, as you know.