Command Ops: Artillery under AI control and you

[Arjuna]

wodin,

So what you are asking for is some sort of reduction in the sighting probability for non-firing support units or is just mortars and antitank?

[Arjuna]

Maybe we need a fourth visibility force type. At the moment we have three. One for Personnel. One for vehicles and another for guns and rocket launchers. If you go into the MapMaker and double click any standard terrain layer eg light woods, then you will see the layer data window. At the bottom of this there is a matrix which displays the values for the percentage reduction in visibility per 100m based on the three types and whether they are deployed, moving or firing. Note that in the map I have just opened the reduction for personnel when deployed is 10%, for vehicles it is 5% and for guns it is 4%. The 4% for guns is fine for big howitzers which do stand out and are hard to hide. But it probably far too severe for a small medium mortar tube. However, when a mortar fires it does have a significant visible signature. So maybe a quick fix is to double the reduction for deployed mortars and AT. I'll see what I can do.

[Arjuna]

I just took a look at the code. This is not going to be a simple fix. I need to modify some internal data structures to implement this. I'll look at this later when I have some more time.

[Phoenix100]

Any observations you have on using artillery on a MP game are welcome, phoenix

Well, I'm sorry to report that I control it all largely myself for tasks that I want doing. So, if I see an atttack going in then I will call down the arty on it directly, using any assets I can. If I'm putting in an attack I will do a prep bombard manually, using either the Bn mortar platoon or any other asset that's suitable. There's nearly always - expcept in the night - something that I would want to be focussing arty on, but usually that leaves a range of assets for the AI to pick from too. I do notice the AI putting in bombards and leave it to it. Quite often - I'm happy to report - I see somewhere that I want to bombard and when I click on the arty asset to place it find the AI is already in the middle of setting it up. This I see mainly as I try to break up or hold enemy attacks.

I'm quite happy with this level of control. It is - as you said, BG - consistent with my 'sweet spot' for interference (I wouldn't have much to do otherwise) regardless of how realistic it is or is not. So I'm generally happy with the arty.

Your guide has been very, very helpful in single play, I must say (in terms of reattaching assets to the HQ above the assaulting HQ) but I haven't experimented like that in MP at all (because I trust my own ability to use the arty to good effect much more than I trust the AI ability, and anyway, I expect my opponent is doing the same!)

[dazkaz15]

Post beta patch v4.4.259

Test with regard to artillery support attached to Battalian HQ

This moving of the Werfer units never happend pre patch. They just moved to within range as they should.

[dazkaz15]

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[dazkaz15]

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[wodin]

Daz I'm confused with regards to what your showing..are you showing something that works or doesn't? As I said before I always detach Arty units (except battalion level support) every since HTTR and the tutorial which taught me about detaching the Arty units and forming a firebase with an in situ defend order. SO I've never had an issue with the larger Arty Units moving with an attack as such. I just manually move them forward as the battle moves along.They never get reattached. Or if they do again it's with an in situ defend order (Giving the in situ defend order to the HQ unit once reattached which stops them moving closer to the HQ).

Just re read it so it seems the patch formation isn't working again...werfe units are acting like mortar units and direct art support doesn't work.

Arty direct fire support only is with regards to arty in the same formation isn't it?

Maybe the 500m frontage they moved off at that but spread out about on the final assault then reform and defend at 500m? (Just a guess as I really can't see how all that isn't working this beta so looking for reasons)

[dazkaz15]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Daz I'm confused with regards to what your showing..are you showing something that works or doesn't? As I said before I always detach Arty units (except battalion level support) every since HTTR and the tutorial which taught me about detaching the Arty units and forming a firebase with an in situ defend order. SO I've never had an issue with the larger Arty Units moving with an attack as such. I just manually move them forward as the battle moves along.They never get reattached. Or if they do again it's with an in situ defend order (Giving the in situ defend order to the HQ unit once reattached which stops them moving closer to the HQ).

Just re read it so it seems the patch formation isn't working again...werfe units are acting like mortar units and direct art support doesn't work.

Arty direct fire support only is with regards to arty in the same formation isn't it?

Maybe the 500m frontage they moved off at that but spread out about on the final assault then reform and defend at 500m? (Just a guess as I really can't see how all that isn't working this beta so looking for reasons)

It's a post patch test with regards to Bletchley-geek opening post on this thread, about attaching artillery units to the Bn HQ using direct support only to the Bn.
You can see what is attached to the Bn in my first image. It's a bit over the top but is good for testing.
As for it working right, then clearly it isn't.
But I'm not sure if Dave is supporting this kind of attachment in the game or whether it's something we should avoid.
That's up to him I guess.

[Arjuna]

Re Direct Support Arty. The screen shot provided clearly shows those werfer units have a pink background on their unit info boxes. This indicated they are waiting on orders. So until they get those orders they are not constrained.

As to the rest I need a save.

[dazkaz15]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Re Direct Support Arty. The screen shot provided clearly shows those werfer units have a pink background on their unit info boxes. This indicated they are waiting on orders. So until they get those orders they are not constrained.

As to the rest I need a save.

Save game sent to support@panthergames.com hope that is the right one?

[RockinHarry]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Harry,

You have to factor in cases where the user specifies an FUP that maybe 3 or 4 kms from the objective. In such, you have to push the mortars and IGs forward of the FUP so they can reach the objective. The way we handle that is to have them join the assault and they reassess as they assault forward. Because they are support units they are placed behind the line units in the assault. When they get to a point where they can bring eff fire onto the objective plus a margin of range to allow them to hit enemy reinforcing the objective, they then deploy and go onCall.

Now the code that sets the default frontage when you uncheck the Auto box, this is called before any planning in undertaken. It's just an estimate at this stage. So it has to cater for the worst possible case. If we don't factor their persQty into the equation then the force may be too bunched up and therefore more vulnerable to enemy fire during the assault.

Right, that all needs consideration off course. Thus I mainly talked of the long range support weapons. For own mission works I´ll subordinate heavy weapons to a higher HQ (Rgt.) and leave it to the player to reassign stuff as he sees fit. I´ve made some good expereiences as well with AI setup. Keep thinking the AI has a more easy time, when it has mainly to deal with line units in Bn´s.

With regard to bunching up, the worst I´ve seen yet, is when the AI decides for successive lines. When the point unit is halted for one the many reasons, then the follow ups quickly move up to the point unit and sooner or later provide a big cluster for Arty peppering. I´ve yet to check with latest beta again.

[dazkaz15]

Dave are you supporting this kind of Artillery attachment to the Battalions?
I'll do some tests to see how its working if you are.