Mid war jap aircraft production

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
My plan is to be able to start training IJAAF pilots in navT role by the end of 1943 and to produce 180 Peggy-T each month by mid 1944.

This bomber is fast, armoured, durable (for Japanese standars) and can completely substitute the P1Y series in anti-naval role

But GreyJoy, if you only get the Peggy (T) on or around 1/44, why is that any better than using your (trained) IJAAF pilots as kamikazes? That's how I intend to use my supernumerary IJAAF pilot pools moving forward. Plus, then you don't have to worry about an air HQ with sufficient torps and you can use any number of different superfluous airframes.

I'm training up kamikaze pilots in number from day 1 of the war. Then I'll be able to use my old Sallys, Helen, and other (by then) antiquated airframes.

Mmmm... I don't fully agree here, sorry mate. By jan 1944 kamikaze aren't activated, afaik, automatically but only if the allies recapture a base within 21 hexes from saigon, tokyo or Takao.
Even a landing at saipan won't trigger the kamis.... So, exept you think your opponent can land anywhere within the above mentioned range, it's a mistake, imho, not to invest on the KI-67-T and on the naval-t training program for the IJAAF pilots.
Moreover, i do train lots of IJAAF in lownaval since the beginning, but i do plan to be able to use them way later than the arrival of the KI-67-T.

Kamikaze are surely a good and important weapon, as you have highlighted, but they cannot, imho, substitute the power of the torpedo armed aircrafts; both from a timing prospective and from an effectiveness one

[castor troy]

what ppl shouldn't forget though is that at the point you start to produce the (Army) torpedo carrying Peggy, this is the point where you can only start training up (Army) pilots with torp skill. So my question is how would you train Army pilots in torp attacks in mid 43 when you don't have an aircraft being able to fly torp attacks? When you will start to produce 180 Peggies per month, you won't have a single IJAAF pilot being able to do torp attacks, or am I missing an IJAAF torpedo bomber? Have never seen one before the Peggy.

For that reason I'd just stay with the normal Peggy (I'd go Helen for one bomb more load) have my Army pilots training lownav from day one and use those medium bombers for 1000ft attacks. The Helen at least would drop 2x250kg bombs on lownav attacks which is enough to hurt when the pilots got 70 lownav skill.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
My plan is to be able to start training IJAAF pilots in navT role by the end of 1943 and to produce 180 Peggy-T each month by mid 1944.

This bomber is fast, armoured, durable (for Japanese standars) and can completely substitute the P1Y series in anti-naval role

But GreyJoy, if you only get the Peggy (T) on or around 1/44, why is that any better than using your (trained) IJAAF pilots as kamikazes? That's how I intend to use my supernumerary IJAAF pilot pools moving forward. Plus, then you don't have to worry about an air HQ with sufficient torps and you can use any number of different superfluous airframes.

I'm training up kamikaze pilots in number from day 1 of the war. Then I'll be able to use my old Sallys, Helen, and other (by then) antiquated airframes.

Because you most often see at least some pilots return whereas kamikazes NEVER return?

[cohimbra]

A little OT question but you speak about kamikaze: what's the setting for training LowN?
Mission - Naval attack; Alt - 1000 (or low) ?

[koniu]

ORIGINAL: cohimbra

A little OT question but you speak about kamikaze: what's the setting for training LowN?
Mission - Naval attack; Alt - 1000 (or low) ?

Train naval attack at 1000 ft.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

what ppl shouldn't forget though is that at the point you start to produce the (Army) torpedo carrying Peggy, this is the point where you can only start training up (Army) pilots with torp skill. So my question is how would you train Army pilots in torp attacks in mid 43 when you don't have an aircraft being able to fly torp attacks? When you will start to produce 180 Peggies per month, you won't have a single IJAAF pilot being able to do torp attacks, or am I missing an IJAAF torpedo bomber? Have never seen one before the Peggy.

For that reason I'd just stay with the normal Peggy (I'd go Helen for one bomb more load) have my Army pilots training lownav from day one and use those medium bombers for 1000ft attacks. The Helen at least would drop 2x250kg bombs on lownav attacks which is enough to hurt when the pilots got 70 lownav skill.

I don't forget it,but considering that pilots with 65 navalT can be trained in a couple of months, that means that by 1944 i should be able to have enough IJAAF torpedo bombers equipped with decent crews. I do have lots of Helens trained with lownavB skilled crews....but a torpedo is always a better choice imho.

For the lownav attacks i already have more than 1000 oscars in the pools...Rader did wonders with the peggy-T against me in mid 1944....

[Chickenboy]

Enjoying the discussion and reasoned debate, guys. Thanks. [8D]

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Enjoying the discussion and reasoned debate, guys. Thanks. [8D]

I see your point mate, as i do understand what CT means. But i do think it doesn't hurt, late in the war, to be able to field both IJN and IJA torpedo bombers in support of our Kamikaze effort.

i'm enjoying a lot the disccussion too! [:)]

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

ORIGINAL: castor troy

what ppl shouldn't forget though is that at the point you start to produce the (Army) torpedo carrying Peggy, this is the point where you can only start training up (Army) pilots with torp skill. So my question is how would you train Army pilots in torp attacks in mid 43 when you don't have an aircraft being able to fly torp attacks? When you will start to produce 180 Peggies per month, you won't have a single IJAAF pilot being able to do torp attacks, or am I missing an IJAAF torpedo bomber? Have never seen one before the Peggy.

For that reason I'd just stay with the normal Peggy (I'd go Helen for one bomb more load) have my Army pilots training lownav from day one and use those medium bombers for 1000ft attacks. The Helen at least would drop 2x250kg bombs on lownav attacks which is enough to hurt when the pilots got 70 lownav skill.

I don't forget it,but considering that pilots with 65 navalT can be trained in a couple of months, that means that by 1944 i should be able to have enough IJAAF torpedo bombers equipped with decent crews. I do have lots of Helens trained with lownavB skilled crews....but a torpedo is always a better choice imho.

For the lownav attacks i already have more than 1000 oscars in the pools...Rader did wonders with the peggy-T against me in mid 1944....

please don't get me wrong but making a choice basing on your game against Rader isn't the best choice IMHO. The way this went (talking about the invasion of Japan), he would probably have achieved the same with Nates on nav attack (deliberate exxageration).

Re the training of pilots I was referring to your post earlier when you said you would start training IJAAF bomber pilots in mid 43 to have lots of torp trained pilots when you start producing 180 Peggies a month in mid 44 which isn't possible because there is no torp bomber to train them in. If you start training, lets say 300 pilots in 6/44 you will have roughly 300 pilots 70 torp skill some time in September. 300 pilots is a one or two shot affair. Don't know how many bomber units the Japanese got in mid 44 so I can't say how many pilots can be trained though without completely draining your offensive capabilities and needs for other trained pilots.

As an Allied player I would be more afraid of a more or less not ending wave of Helens carrying two 250kg bombs at 1000ft than a fifth of the number of torpedo bombers when I know there won't be pilots for the next three months after taking down three or four good numbered waves of them which can happen in a single day or two. As an addition, I would sure produce the Peggy, but I wouldn't fully focus on it, only reason is the problem that you can't start training IJAAF pilots in 12/41 to have 3000 in mid 44 when you need them. If I could train pilots from day one, I would fully go Peggy-T.