How to reach a 1941 PEBM balanced game

[Lorenzo from Spain]

About the 41 campaign: The most part of us think that the 41 campaign is not well balanced and is too easy to win as German.
But may be this is historic. If at the end of August the panzers go on to Moscow, and not to the north and the south, the German army will be at the gates of Moscow in September. And one must be a genius (as Josan, i.e.) to hold on Moscow until the blizzard.

How can we balance the game?
1) My first idea: the German player must reach the total victory in the year 1942, otherwise, he will lose the game. May be he must conquer Baku and its oil in 42 year, to go on the war against England and USA.
2) Another idea: the Russian player could use HQ mules in 4-5 hexes from Moscow during 1941 (or may be during the entire war?). This simulates the Russian determination of defend its capital sending there all their supplies, and the German difficulties for supply its army after the summer campaign.
3) An the most historic (and I like it): August, 21th: Hitler ordered the Pz divisions of the Army Center go to the north and to the south. In the game, I propose that in the last week of August and the first two weeks of September any Pz division or Motorized division cańt attack or advance to the east between the hexes parallel 18 (Velikiye Luki) and 23 (Smolensk), included. The infantry, however, can go on to the east... as fast it can. Yes, I know, as German general you dońt like this, but these were the Fuhrer orders. And the Fuhrer never is wrong!

Ideas, votes, suggestions, please.

I vote the 3.

(BTW: anyone wants to play a PEBM game with me?

[jimkehn]

Lorenzo, being a new member to this board, I don't know what you mean by HQ mules.

But your solution number 3 is probably good as it was Hitlers orders.

Have you tried it yet in 3.3 to see if it is still biased toward Germany?

[K62_]

HQ mules means you can change HQ's and special supply as much as you want. I don't think, however, that this is going to help the Soviets much, since it is more useful on the offensive. On the defensive your troops hold their ground and generally have high readiness.

If you want a balanced game I warmly recommend the campaign '43. It can lead to a wide variety of outcomes, from the fall of Berlin in '44 to (Josan's )taking of Gorki in '44. The German player is somewhat disadvantaged, but he has a lot of means to strike back at the advancing Russians and make them pay heavily for each square they take. He has air superiority for a long time and better tanks. To my surprise, I have found out that the PzKorps with good air cover are unstoppable even in late '44. Actually, I think that if the Axis doesn't take too many risks it can achieve a draw comfortably. The game is very fluid, each side has its advantages and can make use of them to mount successful offensives until late in the war.

I didn't yet check to see how they modified this campaign in 3.3, but I hope the main points remain the same.

[alfmdoncel]

Well, I dont think that your somewhat artificial number 3 solution is going to work, because a German player is supposed to be Hitler himself, so he has the overall command. I even disagree with your opinion that the German victory is very easy. I dont think I can beat you if you were the Russian player. So, the final victory depends mostly on three factors: experience of the player, ability of the player and (this is the key point in my opinion) scenario design. Possum version is easier for the Soviet side than standard version, for instance.
I think that some values can be slightly changed and have strong effects on game balance. One of this is the FW-190 dogfight value and its superiority over, lets say, Hurricane. A 22/20 pair of dogfight values in these 2 planes can lead to a substantial different game compared to 25/18. Or three dozens of Soviet Rifle divisions could have an initial experience of 70%, or the cost of Tanks can be subtly altered (the WIR 3.2 T-34 cost value of 5 made the life difficult to the Soviet side). Imagine the effects of lowering the cost values of the Lend/Lease Tanks to simulate a massive Anglosaxon help to the Soviets. So, my suggestion would be that before a PBEM game is begun, both players could agree some values and change the scenarios accordingly (it is very easy). Ideally a player rating could be developed, like the handicap in golf (or ELO in chess). For instance, against Josan (or against you) the T-34 should cost 3, and his FW-190s should have a 22 dogfight, and against me the T-34 should cost 6 and my FW-190 should have a dogfight value of 26. It can be even the most historical of the solutions, because one can assume that the pressure to develop more powerful and cheap weapons is low when the situation in the battlefields is fine, but high when things are going not so well. Under my poor command, for instance, German engineers would be forced to create a Pz-IIIj, of say, 15/12 attack/defense values. This would also be a universal solution to game balance. One has not to be ashamed to recognize that he is not a strong player, and modify the game parameters. There are already different scenarios with different values for those parameters. So, one can take this situation one step further and personalize them.

[Micha]

I think one thing that gave the Germans a big advantage in WiR 3.2 was the bug that prevented units from suffering a readiness loss by combat. This made deep panzer strikes much more effective, because even when fighting through four Soviet armies the panzers would arrive for the fifth battle (or plotted move) as fresh as if they had been rolling through Germany, thus making them almost unstoppable.
I don't know if this bug has been eliminated, but if yes then perhaps no other measure are necessary to give the Soviets a fair chance to survive 1941.

[MikeB]

I have not yet tried WIR 3.3 . probably not till summer 2003.

My latest game allowed double saves for Russians from Aug 10, 41 through Sept 30 41. This allowed double production, double entrenching, and double supply points.

Further, a limitation of German air interdictions was also applied.

The BIG annoyment(Jun 42) was that there did not appear to be any defence against shattering in 41/42 winter. A major german retreat of some 10-15 hexes ensued...for which any hope of retaking appears unlikely.

As to establishing handicaps ala Golf...how much time are you able to devote to gaming? I suspect most of us are somewhat limited...to the extent that a handicap would not become valid for some 3 years from startup. In addition, how would such a handicap apply to newer versions of the game?

[Rado]

Hi Lorenzo,

I can agree with solution 3 only little. I think, that this new rule can kill variability in game and WIR is great game mostly due to open game strategy. The game restrictions should be only minimal, I think.

I suggest one of these proposals,

1) Special rule Soviet Command 1941 can work only until August or deleted from game.
2) Increase Soviet experience a bit (increase average experiance at the beginning war to 40 or 42)
3) Add for German side similar rule like Soviet Command 1941 until August or September

I vote 2 proposal.

[sveint]

I've been waiting for this thread...

A) I hate the soviet plotting problems, please have them removed.

B) It's really really easy. Stop giving Germany a max supply of 10, set it back to 6 (or 8)... should more than balance things, even make it much more historical.

Svein

[Lorenzo from Spain]

Well, I agree with the limitation of German supply at 8 during July.

I hate too the Russian restrictions to command, but I think that they are historical. Someone knows where the Soviet command was better.

I proposed this ways to balance the game with this version of WiR. But I agree with some changes. In a game (against a veteran), I conquered before winter Gorky, and stopped at the gates of Stalingrad. This really is not too historical.

BTW: May be I´m a little masochist, but someone wants to play 41 PEBM, against me as Russian?

[CRAZY_HORSE007]

Originally posted by Lorenzo from Spain
Well, I agree with the limitation of German supply at 8 during July.

I think, that can be add to an house rule. German Panzer Korp with supply level of 1 are limited in their further move. Harder will be that Panzer must stop if at level 1. But the problem will be the duration of that penality, I suggest end of Augustus 41.

Marc