Pricing

[RockKahn]

Now, we need to get this worked up at the government "yes" men continually voting for the government to jack up our taxes thousands of dollars a year. [:@]

If we can stop that, we'll have thousands (think of that...thousands!) to spend on Matrix games. We would laugh at the fact a game is $5 overpriced. Anybody with me!? [8D]

Power to the people!!! YEAH!!!!

[rodney727]

I tried to PM Erik about my concerns.... Turns out his mailbox was full and I couldn't send. It's funny really isn't it? I cannot express my concerns because the mailbox is full.... I'm wondering how I would get away with that. Oh ya I wouldn't. Before this thread gets locked and I'm put under a lifetime "ban" I just want to say I have no problem with matrix/slitherine helping out a company that for reasons stated in this thread can't make it on their own. When I see a wrong I try and make it right.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

I don't know that there's anything else I could say about pricing that hasn't been said, but I'll give it one more try.

Every bit of data we have tells us that the previous pricing policy was _not_ helping AGEOD and that the new one will. The new pricing policy consists of simply matching the AGEOD store price rather than the special lower prices offered by other distributors. We are not intent on removing the games from all distributors, but we are intent on making sure AGEOD gets a fair price for each game sold. I absolutely agree that we should have known all the places where the game was being sold and what price it was being sold for. Unfortunately, we did not - when AGEOD left Paradox and joined us, some of that information was simply unknown or not available. The main thing that a clearer understanding of just how widely this game was discounted and sold would have changed was how we communicated what we were doing in the initial announcement and before the release.

We did not intend to increase the price. Our store currently calculates the price in pounds based on the price in dollars. It does not add to that price in order to punish our UK customers or customers anywhere else in the world. This topic has come up many times before and we've explained in detail how it works.

We set a price in dollars, the store then figures out the price in other currencies dynamically based on the currency conversion rate that we have access to through our online store partner. This does not match exactly the rate you see in the newspaper because we are charged for the currency conversion by the folks that do it and that is passed along to us and thus to you in a slightly worse conversion rate (by about 2% or so, if I recall correctly). At the end of the day, the money that we and the developer gets is the same whether you purchase in US dollars or UK pounds or any other currency. We're not getting more from UK customers than from US customers.

I know that in the past when we put AGEOD games up on our store, our non-US prices also did not match theirs because they used a different method of calculating the non-US prices. This is not new to this release, but it is how every game in our store is priced.

As far as future releases, we are in the process of adding all the other releases, including a new version of Rise of Prussia and all the extra DLCs for all AGEOD games to the Matrix and Slitherine stores. There's a lot of work going on behind the scenes. We are doing our best to help AGEOD based on our knowledge of this market, not hurt them. We're following the same strategy that has worked for Matrix and Slitherine and our other developers. I freely acknowledge this strategy does not make sense for the wider market of non-wargames but at the same time the wider market wisdom does not work as well for wargames as a lot the posters here may assume.

We (Matrix, Slitherine and AGEOD) are already all together funding development on future AGEOD titles and we believe based on our data that all of this together will mean that we can all enjoy the outstanding and creative wargames AGEOD makes for years to come. That, ultimately, is our goal. We entered a partnership with AGEOD because we like their games, like them and want them to succeed.

Regards,

- Erik

[italiamedio]

Erik,

Don't bother repeating the same thing over and over again. We heard you the first time.

Why do you think we're still upset? Because we understand what you are saying and it's not fair business practice. We don't like this bait and switch.

I'm ready to take this to the next level.

[Wolfe1759]

US RETAIL price $24.99

UK RETAIL price £21.59

How is that a fair conversion ?

Let AGEOD stock all the Matrix / Slitherine Games - even after the price hike over the last 24 hours they still have PoN at a RETAIL price of £17.99 (i.e. cheaper than buying through Matrix).

It is not so much the £ price for PoN but the ongoing discrepancy on ALL Matrix prices that bothers me.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: rogo727
I tried to PM Erik about my concerns.... Turns out his mailbox was full and I couldn't send. It's funny really isn't it? I cannot express my concerns because the mailbox is full.... I'm wondering how I would get away with that. Oh ya I wouldn't. Before this thread gets locked and I'm put under a lifetime "ban" I just want to say I have no problem with matrix/slitherine helping out a company that for reasons stated in this thread can't make it on their own. When I see a wrong I try and make it right.

That's the second time you've imagined that you're getting banned for discussing prices. I really have no idea where this is coming from. There is no forum rule against price discussions.

You are always welcome to e-mail me if my PM box is full. Use the e-mail button or just send to erikr@matrixgames.com.

Regards,

- Erik

[italiamedio]

Wolfe, is that a new sig?

I like it.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Wolfe
It is not so much the £ price for PoN but the ongoing discrepancy on ALL Matrix prices that bothers me.

If we explain that the way the price is determined is that we do a direct conversion, with the only added costs being those we pass through from the banks who do the currency conversion and the governments that choose to add additional tax (same thing happens in the US, by the way, sales tax is added to the price in many states), so that in the end the amount that we receive is the same from US and UK customers, your opinion is that we are still being unfair? So we should change our UK price so that we eat the additional costs from third parties, rather than passing those costs through? The end result of that would be that each copy sold in the UK would actually be at a different, lower price per copy for the developer than a copy sold in the US. I do not understand how the conversion rate charged by banks and the tax charged by government becomes an issue of Matrix/Slitherine fairness. The part of the price that we actually control, we do a direct conversion.

There are many companies out there that set their UK or other currency prices at a 1:1 ratio, because they just do. We do not and we explain how we calculate the price to make clear that we are not adding anything onto UK customers to pad our pockets.

Regards,

- Erik

[Wolfe1759]

Yes, new sig.

Resurrected and amended my sig from last years campaign to get Combat Command patched to get the withdrawal system working properly (No Pasaran = No Withdrawal) which it now is, a somewhat overlooked game which is worth a look if you are interested.

Feel free to use the sig if you want.

Hopefully I'll be back again to my regular Churchill quote sig soon.

[Aurelian]

ORIGINAL: italiamedio

As consumers, don't we have a right to complain? It is with all successful companies I can think of.

Your best way to complain is don't buy it. Get enough people to do that, and you'll accomplish one of three things.

1: Price drops.

2: Layoffs in the company because their revenue stream does not allow them to operate at current levels.

3: Closure of same and throwing everyone in said company out of work, along with further shrinkage of an already niche market.

But to continue to complain about the same thing, over and over, or start new threads........... They heard you the first time. And the second. And the third. And the, well, you get the idea. Repetition is not going to make it more clear.

They explained their reasoning. Accept it or not, it is your choice, but Matrix has made their position clear.

[Deomrve]

For those of you that don't want to pay Matrix price then go to a site that sells it cheaper and buy it there. You get the same game only cheaper. I don't know if Matrix will give out more key's once the other sites use theirs up, I kinda doubt it, even though Eric hinted that that they would let other sites sell the game. I suspect that once the current keys at the other sites are used up Matrix will only release new ones if the site agrees to sell it for the same price as they do.

[Wolfe1759]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Wolfe
It is not so much the £ price for PoN but the ongoing discrepancy on ALL Matrix prices that bothers me.

If we explain that the way the price is determined is that we do a direct conversion, with the only added costs being those we pass through from the banks who do the currency conversion and the governments that choose to add additional tax (same thing happens in the US, by the way, sales tax is added to the price in many states), so that in the end the amount that we receive is the same from US and UK customers, your opinion is that we are still being unfair? So we should change our UK price so that we eat the additional costs from third parties, rather than passing those costs through? The end result of that would be that each copy sold in the UK would actually be at a different, lower price per copy for the developer than a copy sold in the US. I do not understand how the conversion rate charged by banks and the tax charged by government becomes an issue of Matrix/Slitherine fairness. The part of the price that we actually control, we do a direct conversion.

There are many companies out there that set their UK or other currency prices at a 1:1 ratio, because they just do. We do not and we explain how we calculate the price to make clear that we are not adding anything onto UK customers to pad our pockets.

Regards,

- Erik

Erik

Thanks for your reply, and your patience [:)]

I can buy at the Dollar price through Battlefront

I can buy at the Dollar price through GOG

I can buy at the Dollar price through Shrapnel


I'd really like it if I could buy for the Dollar price through Matrix

I'd be happy to but all my future Matrix games through AGEOD if the current PoN retail price (£17.99) is what I can expect.

[rodney727]

Sent...

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: rogo727
I tried to PM Erik about my concerns.... Turns out his mailbox was full and I couldn't send. It's funny really isn't it? I cannot express my concerns because the mailbox is full.... I'm wondering how I would get away with that. Oh ya I wouldn't. Before this thread gets locked and I'm put under a lifetime "ban" I just want to say I have no problem with matrix/slitherine helping out a company that for reasons stated in this thread can't make it on their own. When I see a wrong I try and make it right.

That's the second time you've imagined that you're getting banned for discussing prices. I really have no idea where this is coming from. There is no forum rule against price discussions.

You are always welcome to e-mail me if my PM box is full. Use the e-mail button or just send to erikr@matrixgames.com.

Regards,

- Erik

[italiamedio]

ORIGINAL: Deomrve

For those of you that don't want to pay Matrix price then go to a site that sells it cheaper and buy it there. You get the same game only cheaper. I don't know if Matrix will give out more key's once the other sites use theirs up, I kinda doubt it, even though Eric hinted that that they would let other sites sell the game. I suspect that once the current keys at the other sites are used up Matrix will only release new ones if the site agrees to sell it for the same price as they do.

Apparently we don't have the option to buy from other sites. I opened a thread with great prices, and it was closed faster than a fiy on a turd. And, I was called "Rude" for doing it.
Not a free capitalist market I guess.

Is this censorship? Yes.

[Twotribes]

ORIGINAL: rogo727

This is classic. He doesn't own the game and never played it but he is saying yep it's worth the price they are asking.

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The game is clearly worth more then a one time sale price. I do not see the problem. 25 dollars is a fair price for this game. Those complaining, especially those that already own the game, can just ignore the price offered by matrix. You don't want to pay, don't buy.

I haven't bought this yet because I don't like AGEODs system of how games work. I have several of their games and none of them are intuitive or easy to work. That may change as the period interests me.

As opposed to you complaining about the price of a game you admit you already own? Matrix has it now I may buy it when I have the money. I may not. What I won't do is go to a game I own thread and complain about a price for something I ALREADY OWN.

[italiamedio]

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

ORIGINAL: rogo727

This is classic. He doesn't own the game and never played it but he is saying yep it's worth the price they are asking.

ORIGINAL: Twotribes

The game is clearly worth more then a one time sale price. I do not see the problem. 25 dollars is a fair price for this game. Those complaining, especially those that already own the game, can just ignore the price offered by matrix. You don't want to pay, don't buy.

I haven't bought this yet because I don't like AGEODs system of how games work. I have several of their games and none of them are intuitive or easy to work. That may change as the period interests me.

As opposed to you complaining about the price of a game you admit you already own? Matrix has it now I may buy it when I have the money. I may not. What I won't do is go to a game I own thread and complain about a price for something I ALREADY OWN.

Why wont you? Shame on you. That is your right as a loyal consumer. If you don't exercise that right then that's your loss I suppose.

[Deomrve]

I just tried it at GG and they would let me buy it, although I will admit that I didn't complete the transaction because I already own the game.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: italiamedio
Apparently we don't have the option to buy from other sites. I opened a thread with great prices, and it was closed faster than a fiy on a turd. And, I was called "Rude" for doing it.
Not a free capitalist market I guess.

Is this censorship? Yes.

Interesting. I guess we have different definitions of politeness. Posting in our forum directing folks to buy from other sites where it doesn't support us strikes you as perfectly fine? We already said we'd support the game regardless where it was sold and we also can't stop you purchasing it elsewhere. I think we've explained pretty much everything now, you can go back to our posts if you'd like to understand why I saw your actions as rude.

Finally, locking a thread is not censorship. Deleting it would be.

Regards,

- Erik

[italiamedio]

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

ORIGINAL: italiamedio

As consumers, don't we have a right to complain? It is with all successful companies I can think of.

Your best way to complain is don't buy it. Get enough people to do that, and you'll accomplish one of three things.

1: Price drops.

2: Layoffs in the company because their revenue stream does not allow them to operate at current levels.

3: Closure of same and throwing everyone in said company out of work, along with further shrinkage of an already niche market.

But to continue to complain about the same thing, over and over, or start new threads........... They heard you the first time. And the second. And the third. And the, well, you get the idea. Repetition is not going to make it more clear.

They explained their reasoning. Accept it or not, it is your choice, but Matrix has made their position clear.

Aurelian,

If Matrix Games/ Slitherine laysoff employees, before it decides to stop being stubborn and lowers the price, then the people at the helm are just evil people and unmoral people. If that's the case then the company deserves to go under, and so does its investors.

If it does fail, there will be a vaccum and the developers and other publishers will fill the void.

[italiamedio]

Erik,

Yes. Free capitalism.

Closing a thread that mentions prices lower than what you offer is a form of censorship, yes.

Look, Erik, you're a good guy and I know you put on the front because of the higher ups pressure you to do so, but don't take this out on us.

My best interests are for myself, first, and then the consumers, second (as I am one). Company comes third, because I hold no shares in the company nor have a financial interest therein.

Chill out man. See it from our perspective.

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: italiamedio
Apparently we don't have the option to buy from other sites. I opened a thread with great prices, and it was closed faster than a fiy on a turd. And, I was called "Rude" for doing it.
Not a free capitalist market I guess.

Is this censorship? Yes.

Interesting. I guess we have different definitions of politeness. Posting in our forum directing folks to buy from other sites where it doesn't support us strikes you as perfectly fine? We already said we'd support the game regardless where it was sold and we also can't stop you purchasing it elsewhere. I think we've explained pretty much everything now, you can go back to our posts if you'd like to understand why I saw your actions as rude.

Finally, locking a thread is not censorship. Deleting it would be.

Regards,

- Erik

[Wolfe1759]

italamedio

Matrix are people with lives, homes and (probably) families.

No matter what you think don't wish that on anyone [:@]

(responding to the post before last)